Warhammer Total War: Warhammer 2

[Mitleser2020]

CA trying to fix cavalry versus infantry encounters.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/warhammer-2-patch-1-12-1-cavalry-fix/

Two major changes have been implemented to resolve this, but due to the nature of changing core game systems we decided that a Beta Patch was the only safe way to ensure players aren’t negatively impacted if these changes have unanticipated negative results in other interactions in battle.

A summary of the changes:

• Entities will no longer charge attack if their charge path is blocked by a friendly entity. This particularly affects infantry vs cavalry counter-charge interactions:
  • This means that when an infantry unit charges into cavalry, the back ranks no longer get to charge attack as well.
  • This reduces the damage dealt by infantry when counter-charging as fewer entities get an immediate charge attack. This helps cavalry trade more favourably with infantry.
• The calculation for collision damage has been changed
  • Previously collision damage was increased by the charge bonus of a unit, which meant that high charge bonus cavalry would have little difference in collision damage between braced and unbraced infantry. This meant that bracing often didn’t make a big difference for collision damage, so it would nearly always be better for infantry to counter-charge.
  • Now collision damage is just a calculation using collision power and not adding the flat Charge Bonus, this essentially means charging into braced Infantry will result in much lower damage on impact than unbraced Infantry.

These two changes reinforce our intentions of how Cavalry and Infantry should interact:

• Cavalry should be favoured in fights against counter-charging Infantry – of course, the relative strengths of the units will still be important.
• Braced Infantry should receive less damage than counter-charging Infantry, so there is a benefit to bracing Infantry against Cavalry.

 

[Lacrymas]

Aren't Bretonnians the only ones heavily reliant on cavalry anyway? What they should be doing is fixing/nerfing ranged units.

 

[Average Manatee]

Aren't Bretonnians the only ones heavily reliant on cavalry anyway? What they should be doing is fixing/nerfing ranged units.

Lots of faction have good cavalry and/or lords that give cavalry focused buffs. For example vampire counts and Malus

 

[Lacrymas]

Sure, but the ranged unit problem overshadows everything else at this point and needs urgent attention. Much more than cavalry imo.

 

[Olinser]

Aren't Bretonnians the only ones heavily reliant on cavalry anyway? What they should be doing is fixing/nerfing ranged units.

Lots of faction have good cavalry and/or lords that give cavalry focused buffs. For example vampire counts and Malus

If by 'good cavalry' you mean 'shit cavalry with one incredibly good and very expensive top-tier cavalry unit' then sure.

Blood Knights are amazing (with a price tag to go with it). Black Knights are total shit with terrible stats that get killed by basic infantry that's not even anti-large, and Hexwraiths are insanely expensive for how fragile they are, even against normal weapons! For just 300g more than a Hexwraith you can get Blood Knights which are better in every conceivable way except speed.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

i wish cavalry was useful. i have a soft spot for the vampiric skeletons in the middle of the desert, but all they inherit from the vampires are the lightest "cavalry" possible. it's a wasted tree to pursue.

 

[Average Manatee]

If by 'good cavalry' you mean 'shit cavalry with one incredibly good and very expensive top-tier cavalry unit' then sure.

Blood Knights are amazing (with a price tag to go with it). Black Knights are total shit with terrible stats that get killed by basic infantry that's not even anti-large, and Hexwraiths are insanely expensive for how fragile they are, even against normal weapons! For just 300g more than a Hexwraith you can get Blood Knights which are better in every conceivable way except speed.

Lance and Barding Black Knights are almost as good as Blood Knights and your best bet for quickly routing and executing anything already weakened. Hexwraiths are essential for AP damage and can terror rout.

Sure, but the ranged unit problem overshadows everything else at this point and needs urgent attention. Much more than cavalry imo.

It's your choice if you want to abuse AI in SP and how much. AoE spells nuking your own lords/heroes that are surrounded by thousands of enemy infantry is just as OP if not more so. Also these are balance changes that should improve cavalry both for SP and MP.

 

[thesheeep]

i wish cavalry was useful. i have a soft spot for the vampiric skeletons in the middle of the desert, but all they inherit from the vampires are the lightest "cavalry" possible. it's a wasted tree to pursue.

Yes, but they really don't need that cavalry.

They got monsters for that role - and chariots.

Which reminds me:
Chariots do suck in WH2. They barely do damage and get stuck in a lake of infantry unable to get out. Super micro intensive without any real payoff.
Will the cav changes actually do anything about that?

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

They got monsters for that role - and chariots.

and, exactly as i said, "a wasted tree".

 

[copebot]

Chariots are good, actually, even TK chariots. The micro for them is just weird in that you have to issue orders repeatedly and avoid getting them bogged down. Chariot heroes like Tomb Princes and Beastman wargors are also dope. Scourgerunner and Tiranoc chariots are excellent. You just can't build a whole army around them -- it's a 1 or 2 unit per army thing.

 

[Space Satan]

Chariots do suck in WH2. They barely do damage and get stuck in a lake of infantry unable to get out. Super micro intensive without any real payoff.
Will the cav changes actually do anything about that?

Unless you are using them wrong. Chariots are among the best morale breakers because shitload of them are monstrous and charge impacts with tons of morale penalties.

 

[Average Manatee]

Single character chariots are good because you can actually get them out. 4 model chariots gets 1 of them stuck way too easily.

The other problem is that with the way AI builds armies you might randomly run into an army that is 75% black orks or 75% high elf dragons and cavalry. Chariots can't really deal with this kind of stuff. And if all you can use them for is chasing units off the battlefield then high charge bonus cavalry are far better.

 

[thesheeep]

Unless you are using them wrong. Chariots are among the best morale breakers because shitload of them are monstrous and charge impacts with tons of morale penalties.

I usually play on Very Hard - unless you are fighting rats, goblins or human chaff, morale doesn't really matter all that much.

Might be very different on multiplayer, of course. Or normal, but who tf plays on normal once you know what you're doing?
Unfortunately, CA does tend to balance for the minority of MP instead of the majority playing SP.
Or even better, have two different sets of balancing values - which wouldn't even be hard to do, but that's an eternal plea that will never happen.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

Looks like an interesting enough faction unit wise.

 

[Average Manatee]

How much is the world map being expanded if Cathay is in? Is the WH3 mortal empires going to be a full world map with like twice as many provinces as we have now?

Current map occupies roughly this space

 

[Fedora Master]

Cathay proper probably isn't on the map, same with Ind and Nippon.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

don't pollute the thread with the sequel's crap, please.

 

[Fedora Master]

Not like there's anything happening with WH2. What, did Radious update his mod to add yet more superfluous units?

 

[Lacrymas]

So, how do you deal with army logistics in these games? I want to upgrade my main army in Troy because even the experienced low-tier units are starting to fall off in efficiency. I'm on the other side of the map. Do you try to capture an upgraded city and recruit from there or do you send a caravan hero? Caravan heroes like in the Heroes games sound very slow, especially because the receiving army loses their movement.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

So, how do you deal with army logistics in these games? I want to upgrade my main army in Troy because even the experienced low-tier units are starting to fall off in efficiency. I'm on the other side of the map. Do you try to capture an upgraded city and recruit from there or do you send a caravan hero? Caravan heroes like in the Heroes games sound very slow, especially because the receiving army loses their movement.

You use global recruitment.
Use encampment stance and bring up the recruitment menu.

 

[Lacrymas]

So, how do you deal with army logistics in these games? I want to upgrade my main army in Troy because even the experienced low-tier units are starting to fall off in efficiency. I'm on the other side of the map. Do you try to capture an upgraded city and recruit from there or do you send a caravan hero? Caravan heroes like in the Heroes games sound very slow, especially because the receiving army loses their movement.

You use global recruitment.
Use encampment stance and bring up the recruitment menu.

I'm actually not sure if Troy has global recruitment, I have to check.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

So, how do you deal with army logistics in these games? I want to upgrade my main army in Troy because even the experienced low-tier units are starting to fall off in efficiency. I'm on the other side of the map. Do you try to capture an upgraded city and recruit from there or do you send a caravan hero? Caravan heroes like in the Heroes games sound very slow, especially because the receiving army loses their movement.

You use global recruitment.
Use encampment stance and bring up the recruitment menu.

I'm actually not sure if Troy has global recruitment, I have to check.

Oh sorry you're talking about Troy, not Warhammer. For that I don't know.

 

[Mitleser2020]

“Here’s your goddamn naval battle [map]!”

 

[kris]

“Here’s your goddamn naval battle [map]!”

Thats nothing. I once got a map which was actually all water. Only my hawkriders could do something, but alas I had to avoid actually fighting that battle.

 

[Justicar]

This game is trash honestly dumbed down battles that last 3 mins with full stack with the same brain dead AI we had for the past 20 years even the fucking graphics arent anything special. I have more fun playing thrid age mode for medieval 2 than playing this snoozfest.