Warhammer Total War: Warhammer III

[Average Manatee]

So is it just me being bad, or are Kislev units incredibly shit? Or am I supposed to use them as skirmishers or something? Feels like they just melt under any kind of damage. Also wtf cavalry charges seem significantly worse than in WH2?

Considering all their missile infantry are also decent melee infantry, yes they are skirmish-focused. If they have spears they'll stand up to charges well enough and Ice Guard can definitely do melee pretty well against an enemy that they've already shot up a bit. Cavalry is shit except for bears and war sleds which are both quite good. Frankly I'm not really sure what their dedicated melee units are for since their hybrid units are almost as good in melee at a slight cost to armor and health.

Frostbite effect from their Ice Guard (-30% speed) + Ice Sheet (-25% speed -25% charge speed, costs 2 mana when upgraded and has a huge AoE) + the map wide -25% speed effect for 12s every time a tempest mage casts their spells = lmao get rekt AI. Enemy taking 4x as long to get to you is almost as good as having 4x the range. I definitely recommend running an ice mage lord and picking up the ice sheet upgrade before doing the normal red/blue line lord stuff and having the hero as tempest wizard for the high level AoE spells. Even early game just the -25% speed from Ice Sheet means a lot more time spent shooting at AIs.

Patriarchs give great AoE melee and healing buffs. Have at least 1 in every army, ideally 2-3. They will turn your OK melee into invincible godmode melee for a short timeframe in which you hopefully win the fight.

That said I'm not sure what you'd do as kislev against a more dedicated ranged faction. I'd assume a proper skaven/any elf ranged spam would just massacre you. But that's probably not something you need to worry about with AI. EDIT: Actually, this may be one of the few cases where unit buffs are actually a good idea, tempest has a +30% range +30 accuracy buff that would upgrade your archers to outrange every other archer in the game, and it's a fairly long lasting AoE that is reasonably priced. Still fucked on flat ground vs. skaven weapon teams but then so is everyone else.

 

[thesecret1]

So is it just me being bad, or are Kislev units incredibly shit? Or am I supposed to use them as skirmishers or something? Feels like they just melt under any kind of damage. Also wtf cavalry charges seem significantly worse than in WH2?

Considering all their missile infantry are also decent melee infantry, yes they are skirmish-focused. If they have spears they'll stand up to charges well enough and Ice Guard can definitely do melee pretty well against an enemy that they've already shot up a bit. Cavalry is shit except for bears and war sleds which are both quite good. Frankly I'm not really sure what their dedicated melee units are for since their hybrid units are almost as good in melee at a slight cost to armor and health.

Frostbite effect from their Ice Guard (-30% speed) + Ice Sheet (-25% speed -25% charge speed, costs 2 mana when upgraded and has a huge AoE) + the map wide -25% speed effect for 12s every time a tempest mage casts their spells = lmao get rekt AI. I definitely recommend running an ice mage lord and picking up the ice sheet upgrade before doing the normal red/blue line lord stuff and having the hero as tempest wizard for the high level AoE spells. Even early game just the -25% speed from Ice Sheet means a lot more time spent shooting at AIs.

Patriarchs give great AoE melee and healing buffs. Have at least 1 in every army, ideally 2-3. They will turn your OK melee into invincible godmode melee for a short timeframe in which you hopefully win the fight.

That said I'm not sure what you'd do as kislev against a more dedicated ranged faction. I'd assume a proper skaven/any elf ranged spam would just massacre you. But that's probably not something you need to worry about with AI. EDIT: Actually, this may be one of the few cases where unit buffs are actually a good idea, tempest has a +30% range +30 accuracy buff that would upgrade your archers to outrange every other archer in the game, and it's a fairly long lasting AoE that is reasonably priced).

Oh shit, I wasn't really using magic, instead relying on cav charges, flanking, etc. like I did in WH2. Also ranged feels significantly more deadly compared to WH2.

 

[Average Manatee]

WH3 did something weird to shock cavalry where the Charge Bonus doesn't seem to be nearly as good as it was in WH2. Heavy cavalry with huge mass and good stats + AP damage still do well but light cav doesn't really seem to massacre light or fleeing units like it used to. This leaves bear cavalry as your best option and they do wreck a lot of things.

Dunno about ranged being better, it's always been dominant in WH2 and 3. But most of the new demon races are lightly armored and often without shields so arrows massacre them.

 

[Delterius]

god the tomb kings early game is so improved from wh2 its not even funny

 

[Lacrymas]

A heads up on N'Kari's vassals - don't. At least don't vassalize any order races. The people who actually like you will declare war on them and you can't say no, so you are dragged into massive wars on all fronts because you have one Bretonnian vassal. In a single turn, I got into a war with Grom the Paunch, Count Noctilus, Morathi (who was on her way to becoming my vassal) and Ikit Claw. While also trying to take out the Fey Enchantress and Orion. I wanted to finish up the 35 settlements requirement for the short victory and be done with this game until they fix sieges, but I couldn't do that because I was forced to go on the defensive.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Kiev Kislev seems to be powerless against the onslaught of Norsca, WoC, Moulder and Azhag. In all of my games they are dead by around turn 55. Empire really needs a LL that starts in the northern/eastern part of the empire to prevent others from just steamrolling most of it.

They're doing alright in my Franz game. Azhag is caught up in a slugging match from hell with the dwarfs though.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

these total war warhammer games seem so damn cool, with their endless units and shit...and I always end up going back to them and getting engaged and then remember why I stop playing..its like fighting a camera for hours on end and it gets tiring after awhile unless you just decide you don't care and draw a big square around everyone and send them on their way...... but then why bother play a RTS? The fucking camera is a pain in the ass, and yes I have downloaded a few versions of 'advanced' battle camera mods and they still suck in their own ways..its just huge 3d maps with endless units require lots of map bullshit..

is there some way to make it so the map stops turning left and right when I get to edge of screen on right and left and instead just keeps moving in same direction? It does not turn if mouse pointer is near bottom 1/3 of screen or something and turns the entire fucking screen if its over some invisible line, its fucking irritating as fuck

 

[Cyberarmy]

So is it just me being bad, or are Kislev units incredibly shit? Or am I supposed to use them as skirmishers or something? Feels like they just melt under any kind of damage. Also wtf cavalry charges seem significantly worse than in WH2?

Just gonna add a little bit to Average Manatee said,

Kislev is a bit different. Basic infantry got pistols for 6 shots, useful either to eliminate a dangerous target before it reaches frontline or shooting down runners, cavalary. Skirmishing with them is really not a good idea. Even their sniper unit can hold its own in melee combat if needed.

Their only melee units are not very useful (Tzar guards) even with full upgrades and bonuses, they do worse job then other faction heavy infantry.

Most of their cavalary is shit except war sleds and bear cavalary. War sleds are chariots with heavy mass so they are useful even after their ammunition is depleted. If you unlocked Boris, he's really good with bear cavalry and very powerful in melee himself.

Ice guards are their bread and butter unit. OK range and damage with nice melee stats. Also got nice bonuses from legendary lords and tech tree. Buffs from tempest maidens really make them shine tough.

Elemental bear doomstacks are really powerful but they need a lot of research from the tree. Also most of Kislev tech tree is boring and useless.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Rather than Tzar Guards, most of the time a bunch of Armored Kossars backed by Kossars and later Ice Guards will shreds enemy long before they become a threat. I am using TTC mod to limit high tier unit in an army so this combination pretty much win the campaign. Just use the Ice Witch the slow enemy down by 50% and then give your unit bigger range/accuracy from Storm Witch. It's incredibly potent.

The tiger thing sucks, the cav sucks. Bear Cav only for Boris I guess? Otherwise I see no distinct use for them. Elemental Bear is pretty nice as it has breath attacks.

 

[underground nymph]

I am using TTC mod to limit high tier unit in an army

Curious about the current choice of units cap mods. Never found a proper one for the previous games, although I consider them essential for the good TWW campaign. Otherwise I can’t see any reason not to go full stack of Ice Guard.
Best one imo was TTC, but my main issue with it was that it didn’t have legendary lords specific rules, except I believe for Skrolk who could have field Plague Bearers as his main infantry. The second issue was that unlike NPC armies spawned armies happened to have full dragons stacks which were practically unstoppable.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I am using TTC mod to limit high tier unit in an army

Curious about the current choice of units cap mods. Never found a proper one for the previous games, although I consider them essential for the good TWW campaign. Otherwise I can’t see any reason not to go full stack of Ice Guard.
Best one imo was TTC, but my main issue with it was that it didn’t have legendary lords specific rules, except I believe for Skrolk who could have field Plague Bearers as his main infantry. The second issue was that unlike NPC armies spawned armies happened to have full dragons stacks which were practically unstoppable.

Issue regarding spawned army is valid yeah, but I think issue is the same across all unit cap mod?

The other is MP Army Cost based cap which is far more flexible. You can have cheap fodder with some high tier doomstack in an army.

TTC is fun, easy to make submod too, so you don't need to find some vague submod, can just fire up rfpm and populate some line.

 

[underground nymph]

Issue regarding spawned army is valid yeah, but I think issue is the same across all unit cap mod?

Hmm, just found this in the current TTC version description:

All limits are enforced for the AI just like for humans - including Slaaneshi Devotee armies, Khorne army summons, rogue armies, and challenge armies. The only thing which does not have tabletop caps is quest battles - these will be extra challenging with this mod enabled, but are still very much winnable for an experienced player.

The issue should be gone, I assume.

 

[zapotec]

Is the Undead Healing from invocation of nehek bugged? The first army Loeun meets is commanded by a vampire and he is pratically immortal.

 

[Average Manatee]

Also, spam walls and Kislev's global effect that forces all enemies to take attrition. Sure it may only be like 5% per turn on higher difficulties, but that will fuck up a full stack trying to siege your settlements over the course of a few turns enough that you can win without needing an army to defend. Often enough to let you autoresolve.

Is the Undead Healing from invocation of nehek bugged? The first army Loeun meets is commanded by a vampire and he is pratically immortal.

All healing sources got changed to be a % health per second bonus rather than flat which was a significant buff in most cases.

 

[thesecret1]

Spam walls? Like garrison buildings? They seem nerfed as fuck from WH2, just 5 mid-tier units at max rank. Is it really worth it to build that shit?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

these total war warhammer games seem so damn cool, with their endless units and shit...and I always end up going back to them and getting engaged and then remember why I stop playing..its like fighting a camera for hours on end and it gets tiring after awhile unless you just decide you don't care and draw a big square around everyone and send them on their way...... but then why bother play a RTS? The fucking camera is a pain in the ass, and yes I have downloaded a few versions of 'advanced' battle camera mods and they still suck in their own ways..its just huge 3d maps with endless units require lots of map bullshit..

is there some way to make it so the map stops turning left and right when I get to edge of screen on right and left and instead just keeps moving in same direction? It does not turn if mouse pointer is near bottom 1/3 of screen or something and turns the entire fucking screen if its over some invisible line, its fucking irritating as fuck

Use the WASD keys if you're not already.

 

[thesheeep]

Spam walls? Like garrison buildings? They seem nerfed as fuck from WH2, just 5 mid-tier units at max rank. Is it really worth it to build that shit?

Absolutely!
They will give you more/better units to defend settlements with.
Thanks to the buildable towers, more units means delaying the opponent for longer, means towers will fire for longer, means way more damage.

In major settlements, it also means better outside-wall-towers, which can be good or crap depending on the faction and situation.

 

[Tyrr]

The last patch nerfed the very op WH3 basic garrisons, but at the same time buffed the special garrison building.

 

[Mitleser2020]

I wonder how much CA play-tested the Yvresse campaign in Immortal Empires.

I get the feeling they really haven't tuned the starts of the factions very much at all. So many of them just have single line placeholder intros, and what were previously quest chains to get their unique items is now just instant battles.

And well, there's nothing that says that the campaigns should have the same difficulty as they did in wh2. I think Imrik and Morathi both became a lot easier for example.

Many parts of the campaigns were not just simplified, but are outright broken, and not in a good way.

Imrik being much easier was expected ever since his trade handicap was removed and he was no longer stuck between Grimgor's greentide and Snikch's corner.
And then it was revealed that his dragons got significant buffs too.

Also ranged feels significantly more deadly compared to WH2.

Ranged units have had their reload time increase, thus reducing overall DPS by 10-20%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql6Ht8hhfWc

 

[Lacrymas]

Ranged units are significantly more deadly against single targets like LLs and especially normal lords. N'Kari melts under any kind of ranged attack and the exalted keeper of secrets goes down to 50% hp from a single volley. Also, to add more bugs to that list - N'Kari can't dominate Norscans, it says you need to fully seduce them although you are already at 100% seduction. I dominated Malus, so it's not a general bug that applies to everyone.

 

[Bohrain]

Ranged units are significantly more deadly against single targets like LLs and especially normal lords. N'Kari melts under any kind of ranged attack and the exalted keeper of secrets goes down to 50% hp from a single volley. Also, to add more bugs to that list - N'Kari can't dominate Norscans, it says you need to fully seduce them although you are already at 100% seduction. I dominated Malus, so it's not a general bug that applies to everyone.

Do you have military pacts with them? I think active ones prevent domination.

 

[Lacrymas]

Do you have military pacts with them? I think active ones prevent domination.

Unless N'Kari automatically has military pacts with all Norscan tribes, no.

 

[Average Manatee]

Spam walls? Like garrison buildings? They seem nerfed as fuck from WH2, just 5 mid-tier units at max rank. Is it really worth it to build that shit?

Absolutely!
They will give you more/better units to defend settlements with.
Thanks to the buildable towers, more units means delaying the opponent for longer, means towers will fire for longer, means way more damage.

In major settlements, it also means better outside-wall-towers, which can be good or crap depending on the faction and situation.

It can be arguably a good idea to not upgrade the minor settlements to max walls because this changes your loss objective in the map. Settlements with full walls will see you eventually lose if you can't hold both of the main victory points, while settlements with minor walls only require you to hold a single victory point anywhere on the map to not lose. Even though you might only get 11 units you can probably fight an AI's crappy full stack. Add in a lord and a few regiments of renown that you can recruit instantly and you can defend almost anything.

Major settlements are basically indestructible with strong walls. I don't think I've ever lost one that had T4 or T5 walls. At that point you want the AI to attack you so you can farm gold. And if possible you want random rebel/chaos spawns for the same reason, you can basically always just autoresolve them and get a cool 5k cash.

 

[underground nymph]

Is there any proper Kislev reskin so far?

 

[tabacila]

Is there any proper Kislev reskin so far?

Haven't found one yet, but The Motherland seems to have some potential, at least for variety and future mount selections. We'll see I guess.

Been using this mod that removes building crap during battles in settlements:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2789948438&searchtext=No+Real+Time+Building
You can only build during the deployment phase and that makes a lot more sense. Fighting in cities is still like fighting in a maze, but at least I felt no pressure from that pop-a-mole building crap.

 

[Lacrymas]

I just completed the short victory with N'Kari just to say I did it, but I was over it by the time I invaded Bretonnia. There's no victory screen or anything telling you you've won, you just get the (pretty shitty in this case) reward and that's it. Even though I said I wouldn't suffer through a Slaaneshi campaign without a shadow caster, I didn't have any. Well, I had one army leader by the end that turned into an Exalted Keeper of Secrets and lost the Pit of Shades, so I used it maybe in 2 battles tops. I actually didn't have any casters at all. I used a cultist in my main army and I didn't give N'Kari any lore of Slaanesh spells because they are pretty useless most of the time. Mirror Shards' casting time is too punishing for it to be of much use, so I opted to go without casters at all. It wasn't as torturous (ha!) as when I had to battle Khorne because daemonettes are pretty effective against elf armies all by themselves. There were 3 memorable battles in the entire run - one against Tyrion which I barely won, one against Eltharion which was just wacky (I corner camped them because they were the reinforcing army) and one against Daith (who I presume is the Sisters of Twilight's uncle) who ambushed me. Everything else was dumb siege after dumb siege. Bretonnia has a single major settlement map and you know how fun that is. I dare say the RoC map with overhauled victory conditions was more engaging than this.

Part of my displeasure (ha!) has to do with Slaanesh's faction or at least the initial roster. I had a mix of mostly daemonettes and some marauders, but that's basically the only viable thing at the start. You use the marauders to lock down units and the daemonettes to hammer them from the flank. This is a universally good tactic that worked against basically everything the game threw at me. (Early) cavalry is still garbage, so I didn't use seekers much. The daemonettes are fast enough to occupy any archer units and the archers barely got any kills ever. Furies are terrible in any roster. By the time I got to the good chariots, I was already 1 settlement away from the goal, so I used them once on Malekith, but it was a super easy fight and I didn't get a good feel for them. My point is that Slaanesh needs at least one other early unit that can complement daemonettes and marauders, preferably either a monster unit or a non-melee one.

Another thing that bores me is how similar the fights are. For a game that pretends to have a lot of variety, the actual fights are so samey regardless of who you fight. Your tactical genius begins and ends with locking down archers with fast units. And you have to do that every time because archers are stupidly deadly regardless of faction. I fought all the elves (high, dark, wood), Vampire Coast, Bretonnia, and greenskins, but I honestly didn't feel much of a difference. What was different was so minuscule and trivial that I barely registered it and I wasn't impressed when I did. On top of all that, 90%+ of battles were sieges, which are even more monotone. I'm not exaggerating when I say Bretonnia has a single major settlement map (an unnecessarily huge one at that) and I had to fight each siege manually because the AR decimated my forces, when in reality it's an extremely simple fight that I breezed through without much losses. I genuinely think the first Rome, Shogun 2 and Troy all have much more engaging battles with only humans. If I were to guess, the extremely poor AI is to blame. It just can't handle anything and it can't outmaneuver you in any circumstances, which makes for very lackluster and samey fights.

Either way, I'm done with this game until they at least do something about the sieges or until I muster the motivation to play again with a mod that removes the majority of them.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

these total war warhammer games seem so damn cool, with their endless units and shit...and I always end up going back to them and getting engaged and then remember why I stop playing..its like fighting a camera for hours on end and it gets tiring after awhile unless you just decide you don't care and draw a big square around everyone and send them on their way...... but then why bother play a RTS? The fucking camera is a pain in the ass, and yes I have downloaded a few versions of 'advanced' battle camera mods and they still suck in their own ways..its just huge 3d maps with endless units require lots of map bullshit..

is there some way to make it so the map stops turning left and right when I get to edge of screen on right and left and instead just keeps moving in same direction? It does not turn if mouse pointer is near bottom 1/3 of screen or something and turns the entire fucking screen if its over some invisible line, its fucking irritating as fuck

Use the WASD keys if you're not already.

I do, but I also use the mouse, I was hoping for a mod that erased that 'feature', I think the camera I am using now is a mod anyway, I have like 60 fucking mods its ridiculous