Warhammer Total War: Warhammer III

[Mitleser2020]

I mean, I know this is the Dex, but give me a fucking break. At the very least the game will be a slight improvement on TWW2, which is in itself one of the best strategy games of the last decade.

It has the potential to surpass TWW2, but it has not surpassed it yet. That is why Mandalore recommends against buying it for the full price and Legend considered the TWW3 campaign inferior to TWW2 campaigns in their current state.

 

[Fedora Master]

Vortex was generally shit but at least you were able to ignore the race for the Vortex. You can't ignore the race for the demon souls now. CA learned nothing. This is also why I don't want them to do mini campaigns, because they're going to be the same tedious shit.
Just having a campaign map where you go around conquering stuff without a retarded gimmick is too much to ask I guess.

 

[Average Manatee]

Just play 8 player campaign and it seems all the problems with design and AI will be fixed.

Vortex was generally shit but at least you were able to ignore the race for the Vortex. You can't ignore the race for the demon souls now. CA learned nothing. This is also why I don't want them to do mini campaigns, because they're going to be the same tedious shit.
Just having a campaign map where you go around conquering stuff without a retarded gimmick is too much to ask I guess.

To be fair it seems like "just go kill them" is going to be viable since the WH3 factions are all sort of clustered near the north as opposed to split up amongst multiple continents. I wonder what will happen when CA starts adding new factions in DLC though, they'll need to change this or else it will be a clusterfuck when there's 40 different factions invading the god realms and only 1 can succeed each 30 turns.

 

[Tyrr]

Just play 8 player campaign and it seems all the problems with design and AI will be fixed.

Vortex was generally shit but at least you were able to ignore the race for the Vortex. You can't ignore the race for the demon souls now. CA learned nothing. This is also why I don't want them to do mini campaigns, because they're going to be the same tedious shit.
Just having a campaign map where you go around conquering stuff without a retarded gimmick is too much to ask I guess.

To be fair it seems like "just go kill them" is going to be viable since the WH3 factions are all sort of clustered near the north as opposed to split up amongst multiple continents. I wonder what will happen when CA starts adding new factions in DLC though, they'll need to change this or else it will be a clusterfuck when there's 40 different factions invading the god realms and only 1 can succeed each 30 turns.

I don't really care. The day they release mortal empires for WH3 will the the last day I play the new campaign.

 

[Lone Wolf]

considered the TWW3 campaign inferior to TWW2 campaigns in their current state.

'In their current state' meaning Vortex after four years vs Day 1 of RoC? Seems reasonable. Regardless, I'm treating this campaign as the Immortal Empires waiting room, in the same way that the Mortal Empires campaign release was the last time I even looked at Vortex.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

I'll get it when there's a cheap key around. No way I'm paying full price for this.

 

[Average Manatee]

As was mentioned a few pages ago, you can already get a ~20% discount and history of WH2 pricing shows that it was a year and a half before a larger discount of 33% was offered for that game. Fact is that WH3 will be popular and has no real competition so they can hold the price high for a long time, it's not like a crowded market where they'll want to milk all the holdouts down to 80% off before the next AAA release in the genre 6 months later.

https://isthereanydeal.com/#/page:game/info?plain=totalwarwarhammerii
https://isthereanydeal.com/#/page:game/info?plain=totalwarwarhammeriii

Normally I'd agree with holding off for paying until some fixes/mortal empires/whatever, but I don't see that saving you much if any money.

 

[Fedora Master]

 

[Lacrymas]

As was mentioned a few pages ago, you can already get a ~20% discount and history of WH2 pricing shows that it was a year and a half before a larger discount of 33% was offered for that game. Fact is that WH3 will be popular and has no real competition so they can hold the price high for a long time, it's not like a crowded market where they'll want to milk all the holdouts down to 80% off before the next AAA release in the genre 6 months later.

https://isthereanydeal.com/#/page:game/info?plain=totalwarwarhammerii
https://isthereanydeal.com/#/page:game/info?plain=totalwarwarhammeriii

Normally I'd agree with holding off for paying until some fixes/mortal empires/whatever, but I don't see that saving you much if any money.

GG.deals is a better site for that btw. From the legit sites, Gamebillet has it cheapest atm, 44 Euro. I saw it for 39.99 a few months ago from them too. Since Ogre Kingdoms are going to be paid DLC in a couple of days, this is probably your best deal if you are planning to play it any time soon. Unless you pirate it (in Minecraft, satire, non-actionable) or get it with other currencies.

 

[baud]

who wants MOAR magic?

 

[Raghar]

As was mentioned a few pages ago, you can already get a ~20% discount and history of WH2 pricing shows that it was a year and a half before a larger discount of 33% was offered for that game. Fact is that WH3 will be popular and has no real competition so they can hold the price high for a long time, it's not like a crowded market where they'll want to milk all the holdouts down to 80% off before the next AAA release in the genre 6 months later.

The reason why they kept price is because they are using Denuvo, and they had no real reason to drop price.

 

[Fedora Master]

Every CA game got cracked eventually, Denuvo or not. The only thing that keeps piracy down is the lack of interest in games like Troy or Britannia.

 

[Raghar]

They got cracked yea... But not after each major update. And noncracked versions allow Denuvo to disable copy at request. CA would be really dumb to decrease prices. People who want it, and don't have money should save. CA don't have reason to kill its future profits by showing people when they will wait half year, they will get it for half price.

 

[PorkaMorka]

The new factions seem extremely bland. Like, all of them. If you like playing Barbie's Dress-Up, you might appreciate chaos undivided, but I don't see the appeal of any other faction. There are so many factions now that they've started to cannibilize each other's mechanics on top of them all being shockingly samey anyway.

Fantasy Russia, Fantasy China, Ogres (which are gross) and some demons

I was surprised that they'd make a faction lineup this boring and unappealing for such a heavily marketed game

 

[Fedora Master]

The problem with demons is that they were never really intended to be split into factions. Of course there won't be much unit variety in them then.

 

[underground nymph]

Fantasy Russia

Though Kislev has chances to become what Reikland should have been story-wise: miserable and Chaos-ridden. So far none of Twarhammers have fully succeeded in capturing that atmosphere I am longing for (Battlemarch was more Warhammer in this regards). So I have my hopes for Kislev to deliver those vibes.

CA has shown that they are able to complement the gameplay with a story driver. Malekith campaign was actually enjoyable due to this exact factor.

 

[Jaedar]

Vortex was generally shit but at least you were able to ignore the race for the Vortex. You can't ignore the race for the demon souls now. CA learned nothing. This is also why I don't want them to do mini campaigns, because they're going to be the same tedious shit.
Just having a campaign map where you go around conquering stuff without a retarded gimmick is too much to ask I guess.

I think if you wipe out all the major factions that gives you a domination victory still. And since you can apparently use the chaos gates to instantly traverse the map it's probably not even that hard to do it.

 

[FreeKaner]

Fantasy Russia, Fantasy China, Ogres (which are gross) and some demons

I was surprised that they'd make a faction lineup this boring and unappealing for such a heavily marketed game

One or more of those factions are highly anticipated.

Chaos is generally liked among Warhammer fans. Kislev and Cathay are both kind of new in execution and are looked forward to by fans. Ogres seem very popular among people as well. A bit disappointing that Chaos Dwarves didn't make it to release but hey they want to make DLC as well and if Chaos Dwarves end up as quality as Tomb Kings it'll be fine as a DLC.

What would be a less boring lineup?

 

[PorkaMorka]

What would be a less boring lineup?

Dunno, it just seems like the previous games have already introduced most of the core Warhammer fantasy races, with the exception of Chaos demons.

The Demons might be a bit too much for a DLC but are they really worthy as the centerpiece for a third game?

Seems like adding fantasy China, Disney fantasy Russia and a fat joke is just kind of a way to stretch out the faction lineup of what would otherwise be a big DLC.

Might still play fine, but as an outsider who paid attention to the marketing for a little while I was surprised how skippable the faction lineup seemed.

 

[Lacrymas]

The problem isn't that they are fantasy China and Russia (it's just part of the problem), it's that their mechanics are bland. Take the Wu Xing Compass for example - why aren't the two siblings fighting over its use? Isn't it a unique thing? Lore-wise they are at odds even if they are working towards the same goal, yet mechanically it's not the case at all. Not to mention that they don't have their own mechanics. Paris and Hector in Troy fight over their father's approval, so they share that mechanic, but they also have other mechanics of their own. Not only is their "main" mechanic much more dynamic and interesting, they also get their own shit to play with. They channel this with John Constantine and Elsa, but as far as I can see it's very barebones and not like Paris and Hector's feud at all. On top of that, Boris shares this mechanic as well and it makes no sense with him.

The four demon factions have like, what, 1 mechanic each? Khorne is Taurox 2.0, Nurgle is Grom's recipes 0.5, Slaanesh seduces one (1) unit, only Tzeentch has true potential to cause chaos. I'm also questioning their inclusion/separation as well. Chaos Undivided could've had all these mechanics (and it does) and choose who to devote himself to to get better at that thing and unlock more god-specific mechanics. The factions are spread too thin with not enough ideas to go around, they are myopic and overly specialized, leaving no room for player input on how to develop the faction. Chaos Undivided is the only exception and it doesn't go far enough with this, making it possible to unlock every demon path muddying the waters again. When you choose which faction to play, you are de facto choosing a playstyle at best and a mechanic at worst.

 

[Parabalus]

The problem isn't that they are fantasy China and Russia (it's just part of the problem), it's that their mechanics are bland. Take the Wu Xing Compass for example - why aren't the two siblings fighting over its use? Isn't it a unique thing? Lore-wise they are at odds even if they are working towards the same goal, yet mechanically it's not the case at all. Not to mention that they don't have their own mechanics. Paris and Hector in Troy fight over their father's approval, so they share that mechanic, but they also have other mechanics of their own. Not only is their "main" mechanic much more dynamic and interesting, they also get their own shit to play with. They channel this with John Constantine and Elsa, but as far as I can see it's very barebones and not like Paris and Hector's feud at all. On top of that, Boris shares this mechanic as well and it makes no sense with him.

The four demon factions have like, what, 1 mechanic each? Khorne is Taurox 2.0, Nurgle is Grom's recipes 0.5, Slaanesh seduces one (1) unit, only Tzeentch has true potential to cause chaos. I'm also questioning their inclusion/separation as well. Chaos Undivided could've had all these mechanics (and it does) and choose who to devote himself to to get better at that thing and unlock more god-specific mechanics. The factions are spread too thin with not enough ideas to go around, they are myopic and overly specialized, leaving no room for player input on how to develop the faction. Chaos Undivided is the only exception and it doesn't go far enough with this, making it possible to unlock every demon path muddying the waters again. When you choose which faction to play, you are de facto choosing a playstyle at best and a mechanic at worst.

How is this different from the factions of other races?

Barring a few exceptions they all have some minor maluses, minor bonuses and a new mechanic tacked on top.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's not different, that's a huge problem with the WH series in general.

 

[Parabalus]

The 19 different races are very distinct though, most factions of a race being similar is fine.

 

[Lacrymas]

You misunderstand my point. While it can be argued the different races are distinct (I'm not sold on that idea myself, but let's go along with it for now), what I want to point out is that there is no customization once you have chosen to play a faction. Tyrion always plays exactly the same, you can't really draw outside the lines. The new factions are an even more extreme version of this. Can you really squeeze out 2 different playthroughs and playstyles with any of the demon factions? Or even with Cathay and Kislev? This is what I mean by myopic and overly specialized. The tech trees were a great way to give some variety and customization options, but they are so boring and limited/limiting that it's not the case at all. While this is sometimes ok, like with Taurox (you know what you are getting into when you pick him and you can't deviate even an inch), it's not very compelling when it's across the board.

I don't know, to me this series is Wasted Potential: The Game. There's so much more they could've done with the factions and playstyles, this is a sandbox game at heart after all, but they chose the worst possible design. From where I'm standing, that worst possible design is the choice of either extreme asceticism in terms of playstyle (Taurox, the new demon factions) or giving everything to everyone and calling that variety/customization. What that second thing led to, however, is everyone within a faction being and playing exactly the same due to how battles and the campaign map work (i.e. players finding out what works for a race and applying that to every faction of that race), and how inconsequential the vaaast majority of unique faction mechanics are. Some restrictions and more interesting tech trees would've done wonders and opened up so much more in that case. A single high elven faction not being able to recruit archers for example would be radical.

 

[Parabalus]

Can you really squeeze out 2 different playthroughs and playstyles with any of the demon factions?

No, out of 90% of them definitely not.

But there are close to a hundred of them, so why would you even? That's approaching >1000h territory.

everyone within a faction being and playing exactly the same due to how battles and the campaign map work (i.e. players finding out what works for a race and applying that to every faction of that race),

Are you streaming the campaign on Twitch and have to use optimized strategies to keep viewers for money?

Pretty sure for most players each faction plays very differently, since each buffs particular units and you will want to use those units (even if the 'optimal' play would be to ranged stack in a corner with everyone instead).

A single high elven faction not being able to recruit archers for example would be radical.

Just don't recruit them?

Again, it's not like you're playing the campaign for ELO rating or money, right?