u r dum

[Vault Dweller]

We have no idea how much BG2 development cost, but consider that both the engine and most assets were already there and paid by Interplay during BG development.

JE and KotOR engines also were already there.

Already where?

....with NWN it's even worse. BG2 in the art department didn't have anything ready besides characters mind you (were backgrounds something you could already see in BG1? of course not)

The backgrounds are bmp files. They can't be compared to what it takes to make 3D environments.

Enough? Are you an expert on game development, skyway?

I'm just comparing with what other, smaller devteams do during the same amount of time.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

I highly doubt that. And unfinished and unpolished game is an unfinished and unpolished game. And it spent much longer than a year in development.

KotOR1 - released - november 2003. then rights went to Obsidian. KotOR2 - released - december 2004. one year.

*sigh* Come on, skyway, think. Focus and think. You are making shit up to support your childish views and it shows. It's common knowledge that KOTOR 2 was in development for 18 months. K1 was released in July. Rights didn't go from Bioware to Obsidian.

An expansion.

uh huh. An expansion that beats full AAA titles.

In what areas? As far as the Codex is concerned it's a great game, but did it outperform NWN2? Did it change the market trends?

Arcanum sold poorly for many reasons. looked like shit? I still want to see something like Vendigroth and steampunk in general in modern games.

Fallout looked much better in comparison.

 

[elander_]

I think it is questionable to assume that this would translate into sales today. Say what you like, expectations amognst the public change-- and rapidly-- and the idea that those people who bought and enjoyed BG2 would run out and purchase a game done in exactly the same manner today is hardly a given.

So they would not play a similar version of the game but they would play a dumbed down version of it. That does not compute.

 

[Binary]

If the number of computer owners grows in rapid paces and the number of sold games for computers doesn't...

I wonder why...

If you're implying it's because of piracy, you're wrong. Sins of a Solar Empire was the top sold game in retail in a recent month (February) despite having no copy protection.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Links?

While you are looking....

NDP data for February:

1. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare - Xbox 360 – Activision – 296.2K*
2. Devil May Cry 4 - Xbox 360 – Capcom – 295.2K*
3. Wii Play w/remote - Wii – Nintendo – 289.7K
4. Devil May Cry 4 - PS3 – Capcom – 233.5K*
5. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock - Wii – Activision – 222.9K*
6. Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games - DS – Sega of America – 205.6K
7. Lost Odyssey - Xbox 360 – Microsoft – 203.6K
8. Turok - Xbox 360 – Touchstone – 197.7K
9. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock - PS2 – Activision – 183.8K*
10. Rock Band - Xbox 360 – MTV Games/EA – 161.8K

I don't see Sins on that list. It definitely had strong sales in February, selling 100k in 3 weeks and almost 200k in 6-8 weeks, but that's not enough to make any conclusions about DRMs or the state of the gaming industry.

 

[Kraszu]

As for piracy what has changed? The access to piracy is so much better now to explain everything? There is more better internet connections but size of games did go up also.

Most of PC sold have integrated grapchics cards that are close to worthless in 3D. Small casual games are selling better now? Notebook prices go down in recent years allot so many people that already have PC brought one so they would not increase sells. Even through number of peaple that have PC increased it is not nearly as much as how many PC got sold. Graphics card would be some indicator but still 8800GT bust sells becouse it was very good card price/power wise, so coopering it to last year would not show real picture.

How good SR2 did? It had very outdated grapchics.

As for AoD I guess that it would be best to sell as much copies from your site as you can, and potentially then sold it over steam and publishers that will be interested in that. In countries where AoD is "closer" to mainstream then in USA it would be much more beneficial to get publisher compared to online sells.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Wii and WoW have already presented to you on a silver plate proof that graphics don't matter.

People buy nintendo consoles to play nintendo games. And wow...from that company blizzard? the company with the best artists in the biz?

 

[Hamster]

if the people that "don't care about graphics" were able to drive the industry

As of March 26, 2008, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas has sold 21.5 million units according to Take-Two Interactive

As of February 1, 2008, Crysis has beaten EA's expectations and sold over a million copies worldwide, according to a conference call

 

[Raapys]

Yah, surely games like GTA and The Sims have sold far more than any games which focused alot on graphics?

The continued popularity of games like World of Warcraft or Counter-strike( still the #1 online shooter with a '98(?) game engine ) should also speak volumes.

 

[Castanova]

I think that's a bit unfair. Just because WoW doesn't have detailed graphics doesn't mean it doesn't have great graphics. You must admit the visual design in WoW is fantastic, even if the bright colors aren't to your taste. Most companies aren't quite so good as the Blizzard crew so they replace good visual design with higher resolution and polygon counts. Either way, it's driving at the same goal which is to make a good-looking game.

And Counter-Strike had great graphics when it first came out. Graphics are a barrier to entry, not a barrier to the commitment to continue playing.

Graphics rule in this industry. These examples don't do anything to prove otherwise.

 

[Hamster]

I think that's a bit unfair.

No, it's not. Developers that invest in gameplay rather than in cutting edge graphics achieve higher sales. All those game were condemned for poor graphics by retards but still sold dozens of millions copies. Most Blizzard games were laughed upon for dated graphics when they were realesed.

 

[MetalCraze]

Already where?

Aurora engine. for KotOR they just added some shaders, skybox and face-view for characters when they talk. ah and some mini-games

The backgrounds are bmp files. They can't be compared to what it takes to make 3D environments.

VD, those backgrounds are 3D. they are just rendered. now imagine how much it took to make in 3D every area in BG2 and draw so many unique textures for each one of them. now look at ME - low res white walls in the citadel. the same buildings/mines on planets. everywhere. the same doors - everywhere. the same walls - everywhere. two textures for ground for most of the planets - and copy pasted boxes/stones behind which you can hide. Bio had UE3 engine - yet environments look incredibly low-detailed (next-gen limitations? + X360 can run ME only in 720p). especially that warzone planet Ferros - I mean it's a warzone, yet it looks so clean. there's mostly no junk lying around. just grey walls and empty walkways. now please remember how detailed were environments from BG2 - where you can't go copy-paste because from the birds-view it is too noticeable.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

ah but I was comparing only RPG developers. and mostly Obsidian with Bioware, considering that Obsidian already nicknamed lesser Bioware by some

*sigh* Come on, skyway, think. Focus and think. You are making shit up to support your childish views and it shows. It's common knowledge that KOTOR 2 was in development for 18 months. K1 was released in July. Rights didn't go from Bioware to Obsidian.

KotOR appeared here in nov'03 so somehow I believed that was the release date you know.
Lucasarts gave rights to Obsidian that's what I've meant. still 1.5 years doesn't change that KotOR2 has much superior amount and quality of content and writing to recent Bio games, especially ME which is just a copy pasta cliche-ride.

In what areas? As far as the Codex is concerned it's a great game, but did it outperform NWN2? Did it change the market trends?

it wouldn't outperform NWN2 in sales because you have to buy NWN2 to play MotB. so NWN2 will always lead the sales here. I was talking about how 1 year not-so-high-budget MotB does everything better than multi-million grand titles. which is an argument for my point that you don't need multi-million budgets to make successful games that will sell. sure MotB didn't bring enormous amounts of money, but it surely required much less money to produce.
you must not compare the final profits of different games but rather compare the percentage between money invested/money received. Crysis brought much more profits than MotB in $ yet EA still isn't happy with that % (1.5 mln sold copies - that's roughly $75 mln, from which EA gets 60% or so - which is barely the same they put there I think). while Obsidian already makes the second addon, sponsored by Atari again. which can only mean that Atari was nothing but happy with those %

Fallout looked much better in comparison.

not always. sometimes FO turned into something black and white (like military bases). Arcanum also uses 16-bit colour which isn't always noticeable though, but sometimes it looks like omg (remember all those castle exteriors?)

 

[Volourn]

"KotOR2 has much superior amount and quality of content and writing to recent Bio games, especially ME which is just a copy pasta cliche-ride."

No.

 

[Longshanks]

also - why games are 20-50 mil investments? what's the point? quite ironically the most complex games in history are much much cheaper than that

In what way is this ironic? It's to be expected, the movie industry is no different.

 

[The Feral Kid]

also - why games are 20-50 mil investments? what's the point? quite ironically the most complex games in history are much much cheaper than that

In what way is this ironic? It's to be expected, the movie industry is no different.

Unfortunately the innovation period where developers actuallly made games they LIKED is a thing of a past. It ended with the demise of Microprose, Bullfrog, Black Isle etc. No originality anymore just games made under guidelines handed by executives. Same goes with the movie industry. Their closest attempt at originality is the...remakes. I don't know but a BG remake doesn't sound such a bad idea.

Also loved the "it's a game about dragons" line. Even corporate CEOs can be (unintentionally) funny.

 

[Shagnak]

Links?

Almost top for PC games only.

Despite that most sales of Sins of a Solar Empire thus far have been through TotalGaming.net (direct digital download), Sins topped the charts last month at retail for PC games.

Here are the stats courtesy of NPD:

February 2008

1. Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
2. Sins Of A Solar Empire
3. World Of Warcraft: Battle Chest
4. The Sims 2 Free Time Expansion Pack
5. World Of Warcraft: Burning Crusade Expansion Pack
6. World Of Warcraft
7. The Orange Box
8. The Sims 2 Deluxe
9. The Sims: Castaway Stories
10. Crysis

Sins of a Solar Empire was released in February. No CD/DVD copy protection included. One other note, NPD doesn't include sales at Walmart where a significant percentage of the sales of Sins of a Solar Empire occurred. Unofficial tallies we've received internally put Sins at #1.

I wouldn't trust the word of the evil Stardock money machine though.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Atari owns the license, not Bioware.

Nope.

Word Mark BALDUR'S GATE
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer game software. FIRST USE: 19980100. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19981200

IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: Paper goods, namely, computer game instruction manuals, comic books, strategy guides for playing computer games, trading cards, adhesive stickers. FIRST USE: 19980100. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19981200

IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment services, namely, providing on-line computer games. FIRST USE: 19980100. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19981200
Mark Drawing Code (5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM
Trademark Search Facility Classification Code NOTATION-SYMBOLS Notation Symbols such as Non-Latin characters,punctuation and mathematical signs,zodiac signs,prescription marks
Serial Number 76678911
Filing Date June 29, 2007
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition December 4, 2007
Registration Number 3433749
Registration Date May 27, 2008
Owner (REGISTRANT) BioWare Corp. CORPORATION CANADA 4445 Calgary Trail, Suite 200 Edmonton, Alberta T6H 5R7 CANADA
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record James R. Meyer
Description of Mark Color is not claimed as a feature of the mark.
Type of Mark TRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

 

[Texas Red]

Wii and WoW have already presented to you on a silver plate proof that graphics don't matter.

People buy nintendo consoles to play nintendo games. And wow...from that company blizzard? the company with the best artists in the biz?

lolwut. WoW art style is damned stupid. That it's "colorful" or whatever doesn't mean it's masterful. Huge hands, steroided hulks, generic bimbos etc. fairly generic.

 

[Norfleet]

I don't see Sins on that list. It definitely had strong sales in February, selling 100k in 3 weeks and almost 200k in 6-8 weeks, but that's not enough to make any conclusions about DRMs or the state of the gaming industry.

I don't see a single REAL game on that list either, so meh. Tells us very little.

 

[Jasede]

I hate WoW's style but you'd have to be retarded to say its art design is-

Oh.

 

[JarlFrank]

WoW looks pretty cool actually, I like the landscape and equipment design. Also, Warcraft 3 still looks great even though the graphics are comparatively "old". Blizzard do have a talent to make their games look good even without utilizing the best graphical tools available, because their designers actually are creative compared to most of the generic shit out there.

You can say what you want about the cartoon style of WoW, but it does look *good* and has nice world design.

 

[Texas Red]

I hate WoW's style but you'd have to be retarded to say its art design is-

Oh.

Ya, those huge arms and swords couldn't be because of engine limitations. And you definitely have to be a Michelangelo to pull *that* piece of artistry off . That picture is ugly and gives major vibes of childishness. If you like immature art limited by technology, it's your problem I guess.

 

[MetalCraze]

Baldur's gate: Registration Date May 27, 2008

hmmmmm?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Atari owns the license, not Bioware.

Nope.
Word Mark BALDUR'S GATE...

The license as in DnD license, not word marks.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Links?

Almost top for PC games only.

Despite that most sales of Sins of a Solar Empire thus far have been through TotalGaming.net (direct digital download), Sins topped the charts last month at retail for PC games.

Here are the stats courtesy of NPD:

February 2008

1. Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
2. Sins Of A Solar Empire
3. World Of Warcraft: Battle Chest
4. The Sims 2 Free Time Expansion Pack
5. World Of Warcraft: Burning Crusade Expansion Pack
6. World Of Warcraft
7. The Orange Box
8. The Sims 2 Deluxe
9. The Sims: Castaway Stories
10. Crysis

Sins of a Solar Empire was released in February. No CD/DVD copy protection included. One other note, NPD doesn't include sales at Walmart where a significant percentage of the sales of Sins of a Solar Empire occurred. Unofficial tallies we've received internally put Sins at #1.

I wouldn't trust the word of the evil Stardock money machine though.

That's strange. I assume that was an early list, maybe for the first week or two. Several NDP lists for February that I've seen (including the one I linked above) don't show Sins and the sales numbers quoted are much higher than the initial 100k sales that Brad mentioned in an interview.

 

[Arem]

That's strange. I assume that was an early list, maybe for the first week or two. Several NDP lists for February that I've seen (including the one I linked above) don't show Sins and the sales numbers quoted are much higher than the initial 100k sales that Brad mentioned in an interview.

I remember him saying in a podcast that the ratio between retail and online sales was like 50/50.

 

[Lumpy]

Arcanum sold poorly for many reasons. looked like shit? I still want to see something like Vendigroth and steampunk in general in modern games.

Fallout looked much better in comparison.

True. Fallout's graphics fit together, while Arcanum's sprites seemed disjointed somehow.
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20061 ... out_01.jpg
http://www.lauppert.ws/screen1/fallout.png
vs.
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images ... een001.jpg
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/other/pc/a ... num013.jpg