toro
Arcane
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Underrail - Serbian pillow talk, turning Tricks, taking tips
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hell bovine suggestions are better. You don't need Riot armour (because is shit anyway ... this is one of the crafting system flaws).
High AGI: Tactical Vest + Psi Beetle carapace (but they have min 30 armor penalty) + Nimble. Need Mechanics and some Biology.
Low AGI: Leather armor (Tailoring) -> Infused Leather armor (Mechanics) in the late game (which might be the best armor in the game !?).
So, for pure psi I would probably go with:
Str 3
Dex 7
Agi 7
Con 3
Per 3
Will 10
Int 7
In fact, for my build I went with:
Str 3
Dex 4
Agi 7
Con 3
Per 3
Will 10
Int 10
Intelligence affects 5 crafting skills and Hacking. I'm a crafting whore therefore I need it.
However I'm not sure is worth the effort because the design requires a psi mage to invest in Biology and all the shit needed to craft drugs like Trance and so on. But I don't do drugs and I don't have time for whale fishing :D
So, except Biology, the only specific things you can actually craft for a psi build are: Psi headband + Psi Beetle/Tactical Vest which means that you only need Electronics, Mechanics and some Biology (very low - 15 perhaps !?).
You could consider investing in Tailoring as well if you might want to switch to Leather armor in the late game.
But for as-intended full psi build then go with Biology, craft all the fucking combat drugs and go berserk
* As a remark: You decision for 6 Dex was good because without it ... my playthrough is somewhat boring: I can only spam spells and I cannot properly throw a fucking grenade. But it's too late to change now.
Good advice!
I'm still trying to min-max my crafting skill numbers, jumping around the wiki between components like an attention deficit cave hopper. :D Of course this only partially works when I have no real point of reference for what I'm trying to build towards.
I think I'm looking at the following:
Biology 70 (Trance mainly, I guess psi boosters too?)
Electronics 51 (Psi-headband pieces)
Mechanics 38 (Bits for the tactical vests)
Tailoring 120 (Leather for tactical vests?)
And I believe (currently at work) that my build should be along the lines of this so far.
Also had a look at Premeditation and I think that's going to be a great band-aid for the more expensive spells, good shout Sykar.
hell bovine
Arcane
That's because I've already managed to screw up my psi mage (but not enough to make the game unplayable), so I know what to avoid.
You might need more electronics for the best psi bands (I don't really remember what high quality components require), but it's worth it, because with them you can reduce spell cost - even with psychosis/psionic mania - below 100% (pyrokinesis isn't that great anyway, unless enemies are clustered really close together, or you just want to scare rats). But a psionic mania fireball, followed by a grenade is very nice. Another useful combination is psionic mania & force user, for the telekinetic proxy and telekinetic punch spell combination.
Edit: also, as a mage you don't really need evasion or dodge, because with low agility you won't be able to get them high enough to matter. At level 25 the only enemies capable one-shotting my mage are crossbow users and snipers - and my mage has evasion, it's just that without high agility it doesn't help. Everything other ranged attack gets stopped by a good shield (which is why you want high electronics) and melee guys never come close thanks to disabling spells. That's why instead of nimble I'd consider power management, to make even more powerful shields.
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toro
Arcane
- Joined
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- 14,093
MediantSamuel
Yes. Premeditation is basically must-have for Psi. Also sooner or later you have to choose between Tranquility and Psycho mania.
Biology is for the drugs but unfortunately they have two big problems: (1) you can cheaply buy most of the stuff (except really high end and rare drugs) and (2) you will spend a lot of time searching for components ... which leads to high DEX for fishing shit. High Dex like 8+.
Think about this. I wanted to do it but I gave up; it's too much of a hassle. Instead of Biology, you could develop Throwing and Chemistry for grenades and shit.
Electronics is must-have for psi build. Unfortunately good components for psi headbands (90~100 QR) are popping up around mid-game.
Mechanics is good for crafting Tactical Vest and Infused Leather Armor (you need it to infuse the leather). So it's another must-have.
Tailoring is for Leather Armor and Infused Leather Armor. I guess is also needed. Tactical Vest don't use leather ... and there is no way to mitigate the armor penalty from Psi Beetle Carapace. Do not take Armor Sloping - it's not for Tactical Vests.
Armor evolution could look like this: Leather armor (Tailoring - early game) -> Tactical Vest/Psi Beetle/Nimble (Mechanical - mid game) -> Infused Leather armor (Mechanical and Tailoring - end game).
Or you can say FUCK ALL!!! go with pure PSI/Heavy Armor and Juggernaut :D
* On the site note: I'm currently playing a Psi build and my honest impression is that it makes the combat easier but ... it's not as much fun as melee or ranged builds. The thing is: It's nice to search and find different *spells" but in the end you will spam the same shit in every fight. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
In some way, psi is overlapping with throwing because both of these are the only ways (I know) for crowd control combat (there is also AR Burst but that's not crowd control). But again, they are somewhat undeveloped from this point of view.
So, to cut it short. Psi build are sweet but not as much fun as the rest.
Yes. Premeditation is basically must-have for Psi. Also sooner or later you have to choose between Tranquility and Psycho mania.
Biology is for the drugs but unfortunately they have two big problems: (1) you can cheaply buy most of the stuff (except really high end and rare drugs) and (2) you will spend a lot of time searching for components ... which leads to high DEX for fishing shit. High Dex like 8+.
Think about this. I wanted to do it but I gave up; it's too much of a hassle. Instead of Biology, you could develop Throwing and Chemistry for grenades and shit.
Electronics is must-have for psi build. Unfortunately good components for psi headbands (90~100 QR) are popping up around mid-game.
Mechanics is good for crafting Tactical Vest and Infused Leather Armor (you need it to infuse the leather). So it's another must-have.
Tailoring is for Leather Armor and Infused Leather Armor. I guess is also needed. Tactical Vest don't use leather ... and there is no way to mitigate the armor penalty from Psi Beetle Carapace. Do not take Armor Sloping - it's not for Tactical Vests.
Armor evolution could look like this: Leather armor (Tailoring - early game) -> Tactical Vest/Psi Beetle/Nimble (Mechanical - mid game) -> Infused Leather armor (Mechanical and Tailoring - end game).
Or you can say FUCK ALL!!! go with pure PSI/Heavy Armor and Juggernaut :D
* On the site note: I'm currently playing a Psi build and my honest impression is that it makes the combat easier but ... it's not as much fun as melee or ranged builds. The thing is: It's nice to search and find different *spells" but in the end you will spam the same shit in every fight. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
In some way, psi is overlapping with throwing because both of these are the only ways (I know) for crowd control combat (there is also AR Burst but that's not crowd control). But again, they are somewhat undeveloped from this point of view.
So, to cut it short. Psi build are sweet but not as much fun as the rest.
toro
Arcane
- Joined
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- Messages
- 14,093
That's because I've already managed to screw up my psi mage (but not enough to make the game unplayable), so I know what to avoid.
Me too - I took Armor Sloping.
Never again.
Never again.
hell bovine
Arcane
Hah, I'll raise youThat's because I've already managed to screw up my psi mage (but not enough to make the game unplayable), so I know what to avoid.
Me too - I took Armor Sloping.
Never again.
evasion with low agility, intimidation, which so far I have used once - and I'm in the deep caverns, and 5 in perception, I have no idea why. And I avoid looking at her feats.
edit: And yeah, psi can be a bit overpowered, especially since you'll meet the few enemies who are capable of disabling your psi powers very late in the game, and you don't even have to fight them.
faceless gaunts
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toro
Arcane
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Hah, I'll raise youThat's because I've already managed to screw up my psi mage (but not enough to make the game unplayable), so I know what to avoid.
Me too - I took Armor Sloping.
Never again.
evasion with low agility, intimidation, which so far I have used once - and I'm in the deep caverns, and 5 in perception, I have no idea why. And I avoid looking at her feats.
... at least you didn't go to DC at level 18 with shitty leather armor, shitty shield and without special bullets ... which basically meant I couldn't kill Tchort cause pre-patch the mutagen puzzle was broken, he had huge mechanical resistance and the Tentacle Rape was REAL :D
Accidentally put points into Pickpocketing rather than Lockpicking on the website, oops.
Maybe I could salvage my build like so? I'm sure it's painful to look at so feel free to recommend I kill it with fire and just reroll instead.
I appreciate you guys helping me out seeing as I don't quite understand crafting yet it seems!
Maybe I could salvage my build like so? I'm sure it's painful to look at so feel free to recommend I kill it with fire and just reroll instead.
I appreciate you guys helping me out seeing as I don't quite understand crafting yet it seems!
hell bovine
Arcane
Nah, as you can see by our examples, you have plenty of room for screwing up a build and still succeeding. That said: throw out ballistics (it's really not worth it) for force user, because it synergizes so well with psionic mania, especially since telekinetic punch goes through shields. Chemistry you won't need that high, I think my mage ended up with 100 and it was enough to craft all chemical grenades, including upgraded cocktails; in fact even 100 might be too much.
Now I have no idea about bear traps and how they work, except that they need no skill to set, but: seeing as you already have put some points into traps, 15 more and 1 point in dexterity (instead of will) could give you quick tinkering (I'd switch either clothier or power management for this). This would give you one more tool to immobilize melee enemies should they come too close. And I've seen some strange enemies caught in bear traps.
That is, if bear traps need no skill to be successful. Anyone can answer this?
Edit: in your earlier build you had no traps skill? if those 10 points are just an oversight, skip that skill completely. You could consider dropping lockpicking to about 40 (which will let you open vents, always useful) and raising hacking instead. Late game it offers some alternative solutions to otherwise difficult encounters, whereas I was simply disappointed with what you can get through lockpicking.
okay, you winHah, I'll raise youThat's because I've already managed to screw up my psi mage (but not enough to make the game unplayable), so I know what to avoid.
Me too - I took Armor Sloping.
Never again.
evasion with low agility, intimidation, which so far I have used once - and I'm in the deep caverns, and 5 in perception, I have no idea why. And I avoid looking at her feats.
... at least you didn't go to DC at level 18 with shitty leather armor, shitty shield and without special bullets ... which basically meant I couldn't kill Tchort cause pre-patch the mutagen puzzle was broken, he had huge mechanical resistance and the Tentacle Rape was REAL :D
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toro
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2009
- Messages
- 14,093
hell bovine
Bear traps require some skill but very low (15 !?)
But you can take Trapper's Belt (+15 traps) and Jackknife (+7 traps) and put 5 or 10 points in Traps and you are done - you can plant almost anything (but you cannot disarm them).
MediantSamuel
Why 8 Con? I think you only need 6 Constitution for Fast Metabolism. The other 2 points you can put in Agi/Dex (or I'm missing something !?)
The choices I see right now are:
6 Agi allows you to take Sprint.
6 Con allows you to take Conditioning.
7 Dex allows you to take Quick Tinkering.
Yeah Chemistry is bloated (100+ is not needed).
Choice 1) Instead of Chemistry you can take Hacking (it's based on Intelligence).
Choice 2) Instead of Chemistry take Persuation if you want to *explore* the story line.
Anyway, your build is strong at it is. Good luck man :D
Bear traps require some skill but very low (15 !?)
But you can take Trapper's Belt (+15 traps) and Jackknife (+7 traps) and put 5 or 10 points in Traps and you are done - you can plant almost anything (but you cannot disarm them).
MediantSamuel
Why 8 Con? I think you only need 6 Constitution for Fast Metabolism. The other 2 points you can put in Agi/Dex (or I'm missing something !?)
The choices I see right now are:
6 Agi allows you to take Sprint.
6 Con allows you to take Conditioning.
7 Dex allows you to take Quick Tinkering.
Yeah Chemistry is bloated (100+ is not needed).
Choice 1) Instead of Chemistry you can take Hacking (it's based on Intelligence).
Choice 2) Instead of Chemistry take Persuation if you want to *explore* the story line.
Anyway, your build is strong at it is. Good luck man :D
toro
Arcane
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- 14,093
Sykar
Arcane
To just set the basic bear trap, no skill is required. I must know, because I always carry around 3-4 on my no crafting PSI Sniper.
hell bovine
Arcane
I think he is already playing that toon.
I don't think there is a need for restarting this character; sprint might be useful, but with premeditation even telekinetic punch doesn't require you to get that close.Looking back at my poor mage, I think the important factors are: raising psi skills and will, getting the right feats (premeditation, locus of control, either tranquility or psychosis, but if psychosis is chosen force user and neural overclocking) and then just crafting a good psi headband and a good energy shield. Everything else is just cherry on top, because as it is, psi has no limitations (short of that one, very rare, enemy): you get fire, cold, mechanical, electrical and neural damage, and if that wasn't enough, you get thought control disabling spells and the best immunity-granting feat in the game.
That's why I think psi builds are the most forgiving; you can make a few mistakes, and still have a powerful character.
Thanks! I guess that makes them a very powerful tool.
Sykar
Arcane
I think he is already playing that toon.
Looking back at my poor mage, I think the important factors are: raising psi skills and will, getting the right feats (premeditation, locus of control, either tranquility or psychosis, but if psychosis is chosen force user and neural overclocking) and then just crafting a good psi headband and a good energy shield. Everything else is just cherry on top, because as it is, psi has no limitations (short of that one, very rare, enemy): you get fire, cold, mechanical, electrical and neural damage, and if that wasn't enough, you get thought control disabling spells and the best immunity-granting feat in the game.
That's why I think psi builds are the most forgiving; you can make a few mistakes, and still have a powerful character.
Thanks! I guess that makes them a very powerful tool.
Only if you take all 3 PSI schools. Each school has basically one to two damage types. Ice and fire for Meta, ok with a bit of physical, physical and electrical for Psychokinesis and irresistable electrical for Thought Control.
hell bovine
Arcane
Yeah, but MediantSamuel's character is full psi. So he doesn't have to worry much about screwing it up.
What kind of detection ability you need to detect high level stealthy enemies like hunters and snipers?
Before they are 1-2 tiles away from you anyway.
They can even open doors like gates you can shoot through and keep staying invisible
Before they are 1-2 tiles away from you anyway.
They can even open doors like gates you can shoot through and keep staying invisible
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Goromorg
Savant
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- Messages
- 278
You can start to spot them before they do at around 140 detection, at ~160 you'll spot them from 4-5 tiles and their alertness level will be yellow or orange. Perfectly reachable with 3 PER, paranoia and +~70% MT goggles.What kind of detection ability you need to detect high level stealthy enemies like hunters and snipers?
Before they are 1-2 tiles away from you anyway.
They can even open doors like gates you can shoot through and keep staying invisible
epeli
Arcane
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- Aug 17, 2014
- Messages
- 719
What kind of detection ability you need to detect high level stealthy enemies like hunters and snipers?
Before they are 1-2 tiles away from you anyway.
They can even open doors like gates you can shoot through and keep staying invisible
If you've played stealth characters yourself, you should have a good hunch of how it works. The detection/stealth mechanics are completely bilateral. Detection battles against crawlers and other stealthy fucks are fun when your stealth/detection is on par with theirs.
Also, you can just throw a flare if you have a rough guess where they are. Or a grenade.
I have ~200 (9 PER + fairly high level Sam Fisher's goggles with night vision included) but I still got hit by some random dick in Core City recently (a mugger).
I have no stealth skill of my own whatsoever tho.
As an example, there's sniper in lurker base (or what are they called, raiders somewhere around east underworld, where you get Steyr Auch) at their prison. I walk around the corner, combat activates and I get 1-shotted instantly.
I don't know how to deal with this sort of thing aside from metagaming (activate combat > throw flashbang or flare). Although that was before I switched from +crit goggles to Sam Fisher goggles, being too annoyed with these sorta enemies.
P.S. Man combination of Chemistry, Quick Tinkering and Grenadier is nice. Always have something to fall back to. Even if hit by melees and your STR becomes like 0, still can do damage and kill the melee guy for example.
I have no stealth skill of my own whatsoever tho.
As an example, there's sniper in lurker base (or what are they called, raiders somewhere around east underworld, where you get Steyr Auch) at their prison. I walk around the corner, combat activates and I get 1-shotted instantly.
I don't know how to deal with this sort of thing aside from metagaming (activate combat > throw flashbang or flare). Although that was before I switched from +crit goggles to Sam Fisher goggles, being too annoyed with these sorta enemies.
P.S. Man combination of Chemistry, Quick Tinkering and Grenadier is nice. Always have something to fall back to. Even if hit by melees and your STR becomes like 0, still can do damage and kill the melee guy for example.
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Zetor
Arcane
Was the mugger the crossbowdude in the first area of the Drop Zone? That fucker has some serious endgame-level stealth (not to mention the ability to one-round many builds not in heavy armor), even on my full-on stealth PER-maximizing character I couldn't always detect him before he detected me. OTOH he's in a fixed position, so just flashbang him out of it for ~good times~.
The snipers in the lurker base are probably the deadliest stealth enemies in the entire game. I pity the foo who runs across them while doing some casual exploration around level 10 or something...
The snipers in the lurker base are probably the deadliest stealth enemies in the entire game. I pity the foo who runs across them while doing some casual exploration around level 10 or something...
Yea I realised I might have chosen a wrong direction to explore when I grabbed a cloak with 22 damage resistance from one of dead enemies while my crafted one had about 12 at that time.
The room with dogs in fighting pit and ~6 raiders, felt like stumbling on Twisted Rune in BG right after Irenicus intro. Reloaded maybe more than 30-40 times. Crossbow fag just 1-rounded me. Hate crossbow fags.
Still there was a positive, after all that + electrical spiders + exploding robots I wasn't level 10 anymore.
The room with dogs in fighting pit and ~6 raiders, felt like stumbling on Twisted Rune in BG right after Irenicus intro. Reloaded maybe more than 30-40 times. Crossbow fag just 1-rounded me. Hate crossbow fags.
Still there was a positive, after all that + electrical spiders + exploding robots I wasn't level 10 anymore.
hell bovine
Arcane
There is also one exploit that you can use as a psi mage.What kind of detection ability you need to detect high level stealthy enemies like hunters and snipers?
Before they are 1-2 tiles away from you anyway.
They can even open doors like gates you can shoot through and keep staying invisible
If you've played stealth characters yourself, you should have a good hunch of how it works. The detection/stealth mechanics are completely bilateral. Detection battles against crawlers and other stealthy fucks are fun when your stealth/detection is on par with theirs.
Also, you can just throw a flare if you have a rough guess where they are. Or a grenade.
(though I've tested it only on crawlers)
I ended up rerolling and optimising my stats a little (the min-maxer in me was ashamed at the Dodge + Evasion stat allocations :D) but I'm pretty happy with it. Steamrolled Depot A with no problems to speak of.
Experiencing difficulty finding crafting materials though, am I putting too much faith in RNG or should I actually be buying components from traders?
Experiencing difficulty finding crafting materials though, am I putting too much faith in RNG or should I actually be buying components from traders?
hell bovine
Arcane
You can buy them, Underrail's economy isn't well balanced and later in game money is not an issue.
Whisper
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2012
- Messages
- 4,357
For best Psi drug, Trance, you dont need fish. For 2nd best psi drug, Focus stim, you also dont need.
Didnt read any further.
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