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Underrail - Serbian pillow talk, turning Tricks, taking tips

agris

Arcane
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Blaine I appreciate you going to the mat for Interloper, I picked it at 4 and Sure Step at 6. Caltrops are so much fun, especially when dripping with poison... it's such a nice antidote to those smug melee enemies

edit: I'm up to level 6 on this build so far: https://underrail.info/build/?HgMICgMMAwfCoGQAACgAwqBfNyYZU1NLKVMAAAAAQwAAJjs5HWE3RxZJT07ChQI-U0Hfvw

I may swap when I take Expertise vs Grenadier, it really depends on how throw-y my guy is.
 
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Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Jersey for now
Gotta be honest, the Chemical Weapons route sounds awesome.
  • Acid Pistol
  • Gas Grenades
  • Napalm Grenades
  • Poison Caltrops
What other weapons or tools work best with Chemical Weapons? I'd rather not go with crossbow poisoned stuff TBH.

Also, what psionics would mesh well with Chemical Weapons? Aside from Temporal Manipulation. I'm wondering if Thought Control abilities would work well with it.

Gonna name myself Chemical Ali I think. See if I can find an in-game portrait that works with theme.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
10,350
Why would you use crossbows with a chemboy? You're on acid pistol duty. Anything that gives you space control is a plus, nothing like an acid webbed dude blocking the doorway so you can kill off the big baddie, so you can wait for them all to bunch up and hit the grenade. The DEX/Versatility option I mentioned would potentially give you a melee offhand option when people get in close, even the Ripper perhaps.

Locus of Control + Enrage/etc is always nice for any build, if you can fit it in, though you'd be on WILL 3. Not hugely necessary.

I suppose you could do an ice/fire pistol main with Metathermics, get pyromaniac (does it work with pistol, actually?), and just create utter chaos, but I suspect it would end up just a more roundabout meta psi main, and you'd run into the WILL problem.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Do normal pistol feats work with Chemical Pistols? I'm thinking about doing a minimal required perception build and some gun feats require perception, etc.
Specifically the following:
  • Aimed Shot - Per 6
  • Point Shot - Per 6
  • Rapid Fire - Per N/A
I figure I can use those with a chemical pistol but I'm not certain. Never used one previously.
Agility will be my dump stat. The question remains though should I dump Will or bring it to 7?
Also does Gun Nut work on Chemical Pistols?
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
10,350
I forget now because I don't run my chemboy with those feats - I think Aimed and Point works, rapid doesn't.

You've got me interested in yet another chemboy run, so this is roughly what I might try with XAL & energy pistol offhand:

https://underrail.info/build/?HgMQA...aAAAARgAAZCvCozEmFsKRTlZiwpokKsKHwoUf4rWuCt-_

Not optimal, but more geared at trying a bunch of things out. A lot of the feat order / SPs are variable, you oculd take SI early, take fatal throw, future orientation, etc. Maybe I should take Aimed Shot.

(the same stat spread could probably also be turned into a Acid/Knife boy instead of Acid/Energy Pistol boy; take fatal throw and sure step; go hard on caltrops, crawler poisoned knives, etc. Hmmm...)
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Blaine I appreciate you going to the mat for Interloper, I picked it at 4 and Sure Step at 6. Caltrops are so much fun, especially when dripping with poison... it's such a nice antidote to those smug melee enemies

edit: I'm up to level 6 on this build so far: https://underrail.info/build/?HgMICgMMAwfCoGQAACgAwqBfNyYZU1NLKVMAAAAAQwAAJjs5HWE3RxZJT07ChQI-U0Hfvw

I may swap when I take Expertise vs Grenadier, it really depends on how throw-y my guy is.

I'd swap Expertise with Blitz in your feat order. Blitz is helpful and versatile, but by level 10, Expertise will be granting you +10 damage per round—just about the perfect time to grab it.

You probably don't want or need Ambush. For one thing, ideal face-spraying range is with the muzzle of your SMG practically up the enemies' noses, which makes it difficult to achieve the correct lighting gradient: either you'll all be lit, or all in the darkness. For another, Expertise adds 0 damage to crits—it functions only on non-crits. Crits are still more damaging than Expertise at the end of the day, though, and there will certainly be Ambush-able situations, so it's not useless. However, you haven't even planned Ambush until level 22, at which point you won't need it.

The power of Spec Ops SMG is such that, on Hard and below, criticals are unnecessary when you're bolstered by Expertise. This allows you to select great feats such as Blindsiding, which is more helpful to Spec Ops/Expertise SMG than many other builds, for very obvious reasons.

Gun Nut is... actually, probably a good choice, to help offset the W2C nerf if nothing else. It increases average damage, sans Expertise of course (since that's added on top), by 7.5%. I took Power Management on my Spec Ops SMG guy, though, which I didn't actually need since everything died before I could even turn on my shield emitter, so you're already on a better footing than I was on that score.

I doubt you will need Three-Pointer, and you'll have realized this by the time you reach that point in your feat plan, but you do have room for it. I had Quick Pockets and Run and Gun on my guy. Quick Pockets adds a spot for caltrops, and Run and Gun is good since SMGs benefit from being fairly close to enemies initially and in various situations.

I recommend speccing Blindsiding +5, Commando +3, Spec Ops +2, Opportunist: Slowed +3, and the other 2 wherever you prefer. Expertise SMG does benefit greatly from the boosts that Blindsiding provides, but you don't want to go whole hog on it since it is only useful on the first turn; but the first turn is often very important for Spec Ops SMG. Opportunist: Slowed is just a straight-up damage increase when you have Suppressive Fire, and is a no-brainer.

That build looks a lot like the sort of build I'd create, and is quite close to the build I actually ran, which means it's obviously a fantastic build that will obliterate everything that moves.
 

agris

Arcane
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Thanks for actually looking at the build and providing feedback on it Blaine, and not just dropping hot takes for builds that are conceptually different. Much of what you're recommending wrt feats makes sense, as I'm re-acquainting myself with the game. My SMG does 10-34 damage, +10/bullet is huge. I'm definitely up in everyone's nose not sniping from the shadows, etc. I especially appreciate the recommendations for specialization, I had not given that any thought.

I'm early in the game still (up to the driller quest in SGS and playing eels vs scrappers in J-town), and I'm finding that I'm not using burst a *ton* because of the AP & bullet cost. Rather, I find myself plunking away with lots of single shots from either a 7.62 jaguar or 8.6 steel cat. Especially in fights with more than 1 human enemy, I'll strategically burst if I'm close and it doesn't put me in an untenable situation with AP/MP, but I'm mostly softening the enemies up with caltrops / nades, plinking at them with a single shot from either of the SMGs, and burst is either an opening salvo to knock an enemy out of the fight or a coup de grace after I've netted a bitch.

Why am I telling you this? Since this is the play style I'm falling into, I'm just curious if it's typical for the build I'm going for at level 8. I'm on hard, fwiw, and that means I'm a dirty save scummer right now. But to be fair, I'm trying to skip the whole "play on normal to learn the ropes, play on hard be challenged" time sink by skipping straight to hard and using early game combat (i.e. savescumming) to collect the gameplay instincts one would normally accrue through playing on normal, prior to hard.

Anyway, this is the build updated with your feedback. I still don't have a good sense of latter game-impacting feats. Escape Artist looks good on paper, and stun is a motherfucker, but will that be relevant when I'm at 18? Same with the final few feats, just guesses really. I am a packrat so my 3 STR is forcing lots of loot discipline. It's that or become an autistic loot hauler scraping every map clean, but my time is worth more than that.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
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Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Generally speaking, Level 1-8 is scrub level where you're still collecting the core components of the build and getting by, and 8-12 is when you start to get things more online, especially as you go post-Depot A and get access to a lot of things.

On Hard you have some wiggle room so you shouldn't worry too much about depreciation. Escape Artist remains useful generally, though less so than earlier on.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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How valuable are Chemhaze grenades? Also, I'm guessing that the sealed enviro suit can mitigate the effects, but can the other armors and bio resistant armors also ignore the effects?
 

Blaine

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How valuable are Chemhaze grenades? Also, I'm guessing that the sealed enviro suit can mitigate the effects, but can the other armors and bio resistant armors also ignore the effects?

According to the info I've managed dig up, Chemhaze Grenades:

  • share a cooldown with flashbangs
  • deploy their haze cloud instantly, rather than over many turns
  • impair vision directly, rather than being inhaled/absorbed/injected as you seem to assume

In other words, the Praetorian super-secret high-tech exclusive grenade is essentially a smoke bomb.

On the other hand, I might be wrong. Perhaps it is inhaled. Complete info is difficult to find.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Jersey for now
Well, here she is. The beginning of my chemical weapons bitch:
upload_2022-5-18_21-6-56.png
 

motherfucker

Educated
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Aug 23, 2020
Messages
234
Well, here she is. The beginning of my chemical weapons bitch:
Sup, I recently did a pure chem build. It's not hard to figure out mostly, but here are some things I found not so obvious:
  • Don't discount fire pistols, their damage is meh but the on-hit effect is great. Cold ones suck big time.
  • Your pistol options are gonna be crap throughout the entire midgame. I crafted my first acid pistol at level 6 and ended up carrying it all the way to like level 16 because nobody fucking sells good chem parts.
  • Invest into grenade crafting, mk4's carry your earlygame super hard
  • Traps are not really necessary aside from earlygame
  • Neither xbows and all the other weapons, I did the entire thing with chem pistols and grenades only
  • Invest into biology, too, you'll get adrenaline and morphine way earlier and way more than earlygame normally allows
Good luck, zoner.
 

Serus

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Small but great planet of Potatohole
How many INT people usually use on a pure PSI build? I plan thermics + kinesis + some temporal. I'll start with 10 will + 10 int anyway so i can decide as i go if i want to add to 12 but i'm interested how others do it?
 

Whisper

Arcane
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Feb 29, 2012
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How many INT people usually use on a pure PSI build? I plan thermics + kinesis + some temporal. I'll start with 10 will + 10 int anyway so i can decide as i go if i want to add to 12 but i'm interested how others do it?

8 Int and spec in 1 school (Metathermics or Psychokinesis, second is better imho)
 

Serus

Arcane
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Small but great planet of Potatohole
How many INT people usually use on a pure PSI build? I plan thermics + kinesis + some temporal. I'll start with 10 will + 10 int anyway so i can decide as i go if i want to add to 12 but i'm interested how others do it?

8 Int and spec in 1 school (Metathermics or Psychokinesis, second is better imho)
Only 1 school? That sounds boring. :D
But i'll take under advisement.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
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Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,440
Crap. Gonna redo this chick. Honestly, thought control is friggin great as part of a crowd control option for this character. Gonna take points away from intimidation and temporal manipulation and put them into thought control. How's this look?

https://underrail.info/build/?HgUNA...gEOOsKRVkQFwr7Ch8KIFikxwqPCs8Kn4qKqBeKprArfvw

DEX to 18, STR to 3, PER to 3 if you won't take Ambush. Don't pump guns, pump melee instead, with Versatility it'll go higher.

With 3 PER you can take 9 CON for survival instincts.

7 WILL and 7 INT is also a bit wasteful, you can drop both, but 6 INT for Premed is great.
 

Mr. Pink

Travelling Gourmand, Crab Specialist
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
3,044
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
STARTED PLAYING UNDERRAIL AGAIN FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE 2016 AND APPARENTLY THEY CHANGED EVERYTHING ABOUT PSI

HOW DO I SALVAGE THIS

LV 4

STR 3
DEX 6
AGI 3
CON 9
PER 3
WIL 10
INT 7

PSYCHOSIS, STOICISM, SURVIVAL INSTINCTS, GRENADIER

I ONLY PUT POINTS INTO THROWING BUT I CAN'T USE GUNS OR MELEE BECAUSE MY STATS ARE BAD. I CAN KILL MOST THINGS WITH JUST PSI BUT IM STARTING TO REGRET GOING THIS ROUTE BECAUSE LOOTING STUFF I CAN NEVER USE IS A SHAME.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Mr. Pink, your build seems fine. Don't spread it too thin by trying to use more types of weapons in the same playthrough. I recommend you devote your energy to making good use of the tools you already have. You already have more than enough tools.

Sell the stuff you aren't going to use. You are going to need money when you get your house in Core City, and when you can get a jet ski.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
13,212
Location
Eastern block
Can someone help me finish this build

The idea is being a tanky PSI nuker

OMNIMAN

dump str and pe

10 Will 9 Con

Survival + psychosis + mania

conditioning, stoicism

I'd take the +50% crit damage with psionic mania for better alpha strike. Haven't reached that point though with a psi build so can't confirm...

Psionic mania is scary powerful. Works wonders with Cryokinetic Orb (every shard crits), proxy+punch (both crit) and fireball+pyromaniac.
-----------------------------------------------------

Feats:

(Psi Empathy)

Conditioning (Con 5)
Fast Metabolism (Con 6)
Juggernaut (Str 7 Con 7)
Stoicism (Con 7 Will 7)
Survival Instincts (Con 9)

Psychosis > Psionic Mania (Will 8 Level 8)
Neural Overclocking (Will 10 psi 65)

Thermodynamicity (Metathermics 30)
Pyromaniac (Metathermics 35)
Hypothermia (Metathermics 40)
Premeditation (psi 40)

Skills:

Mechanics (for crafting armor)

Sykar Darkozric The Wall
 
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Lazing Dirk

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
1,865,452
Location
Shooting up your ride
I've been building a melee character in preparation for trying the mutant questline, but didn't find much info available on what will actually help, so I did some testing myself.

First of all, as the wiki notes, upon transformation your stats will be set to 20 str, 7 dex, 3 agi, 12 con, 3 per, 5 will, 2 int. You'll be immune to acid and biological damage, but otherwise have no resistances or threshold whatsoever (unless you have conditioning). You will have no gear AT ALL: no shield, no combat utilities, no traps (TNT still works), no lockpicks; just your two melee weapons and your mutant body, which has 50% armour penalty (35% with nimble). As far as I can tell, any melee feats requiring specific weapons will not work, but more generic melee ones will. So no crippling strike, no heavy punch, no pummel, no combo, etc. However, things like dirty kick, expose weakness, and bone breaker work fine (bone breaker appears to fire on both weapons). Dodge and evasion still work, as does stealth, but with 3 agility, the armour penalty, and no stealth-enhancing items, you'll need a significant investment and probably interloper to be able to do much sneaking. Food still work as normal.

If there's anything I've missed, let me know and I'll go test it.

Edit: I've completed the quest, and would definitely recommend getting sprint, thick skull, interloper (with a lot of stealth), dirty kick, and yell. It'll make getting to the initial mutant starting area much more doable, since you have to pass through a few heavily-populated and entirely hostile areas. It's fairly straightforward after that. Thick skull could be picked up after turning into a mutant if you don't have enough constitution initially. The rest of your perks can just be whatever helps your character progress as normal, though as stated, melee perks not based around specific weapons will help.
 
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