Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Excidium II]

it

 

[Darth Roxor]

is.

 

[Blaine]

That's all understandable, but the result is that there are SO MANY areas in the game that are SO BORING to walk through MULTIPLE TIMES as you backtrack. It's about how it adds up.

torpid already noted Rail Crossing. How pointless is it to require 2 extra map transitions after reaching the train station? And then, of course, everything useful (the mayor, the doc, the gunman) is in the other corners of that shitty little town.

junkyard -> rail crossing? that means in terms of maps junkyard docks -> SGS docks -> SGS level 9 -> SGS level 1 -> rail crossing station -> empty rail crossing -> rail crossing.

The L-shape in the Core City middle level is one of several others in that city. It looks even worse at first, and then you realise some of those areas at least have something connected to quests.

The Institute design is just broken from the start. Almost every area is 4 times as big as it needs to be, and could easily be folded into one. I mean, it looks very cool, but why do you need to go through something like 16 map transitions just to visit the 3 investigation questgivers/shops? All those huge stairs.

I don't mind something like the Drop Zone, or areas in lower Underrail / caves, being full of 'pointless' areas. You're meant to wander in those areas, and they're meant to be barren, and it's predictable if every area has some hotspot, like a multi-area version of Oblivion.

But consider the way these areas are then worked into quests. Discovering info about the Beast? Discounting the actual exploration inside the mines (which at least is quest-relevant gameplay), you're getting the quest from the Mayor (already 3 screen transitions from the train station); then you go to the mines to talk to the dudes (2); hen you go to SGS, ask about something, come back to the mines (~12 screens round trip); and then, if you don't have metaknowledge, you GO BACK to SGS, talk to some other guy, go back to the mines, get something else, go back to SGS again, then go back to the mayor (~24 screens). That's like 40 fucking screens for what could have been a mildly interesting investigation inside the mines.

Lost Train, similarly, if you want to pick one particular side, means 50+ map transitions to fully play it out, and again, the actual core encounter is interesting, it's just wrapped up in dozens of 'go there go back go there'.

Underrail has such good level design when it comes to specific 'dungeons', and the actual exploration in wilderness areas is cool, it's such a pity questing often involves "ugh not again".

A certain balance must be maintained, though, and there are extremes at either end of the scale.

For maximum convenience, all of Core City's merchants and quest-givers could be lined up on the metro platform, for example. This clearly destroys the fourth wall and would be exceptionally bad world-building, but I guarantee you that some minority of people even here on the Codex would prefer it.

The desire for convenience, speed, and minimal backtracking is a valid desire but taken to its ultimate extreme, would make for an absolute piece of trash of a game. What the ideal balance looks like probably depends on each individual's preferences.

 

[ArchAngel]

You can't stealth with alert enemies and it rarely makes much of a difference to reposition one or two tiles unless you force them to come after you by breaking LoS or block each other on a narrow passage

You can restealth if you incapacitate.

That's why I said with alert enemies

Yes but you still use Snipe.

 

[Blackmill]

So, I just returned to Ezra at level 18 to see if he was selling any good components, and found him selling a psionic mentor for Neurovisual Disruption. Is this just chance or does he always start selling it after some level?

 

[Blaine]

So, I just returned to Ezra at level 18 to see if he was selling any good components, and found him selling a psionic mentor for Neurovisual Disruption. Is this just chance or does he always start selling it after some level?

It means you've reached a landmark in the main plot, in this case completing a Core City faction quest line.

The first of these "merchant upgrades" happens when SGS merchants start selling better stuff after you finish Depot A.

 

[oneself]

So, I just returned to Ezra at level 18 to see if he was selling any good components, and found him selling a psionic mentor for Neurovisual Disruption. Is this just chance or does he always start selling it after some level?

I think it is to some degree random.

 

[Tigranes]

A certain balance must be maintained, though, and there are extremes at either end of the scale.

For maximum convenience, all of Core City's merchants and quest-givers could be lined up on the metro platform, for example. This clearly destroys the fourth wall and would be exceptionally bad world-building, but I guarantee you that some minority of people even here on the Codex would prefer it.

The desire for convenience, speed, and minimal backtracking is a valid desire but taken to its ultimate extreme, would make for an absolute piece of trash of a game. What the ideal balance looks like probably depends on each individual's preferences.

And it is many people's point, in this thread, that the balance is off. We can ho-hum about 'it depends' or say everything is subjective, but while I agree that there's no magic spot that satisfies everyone, Underrail is pretty clearly frustrating in this regard.

Again, I point to the 'wilderness' areas as a good example of backtracking, etc. Sometimes I'm just walking through zones I've already been in and I'm bored, but I accept that as a necessary consequence of a wilderness that actually feels dangerous and unknown when you're first moving around in it. There's just no real excuse for the settlement areas.

 

[Excidium II]

Has anybody ever found anything unique with perception secret thingy?

 

[Lhynn]

Has anybody ever found anything unique with perception secret thingy?

How did we ever come back to this?

 

[Excidium II]

Has anybody ever found anything unique with perception secret thingy?

How did we ever come back to this?

Just wondering since people have been playing for longer at this point.

 

[hell bovine]

Meh... I liked this game from the start. Combat and exploration are amazing. Character system is pretty awesome too...BUT

BUT there are 2 things that I have to admit that are complete shit to me. Core City's billion mini areas that are making me transition through 7+ small-nothing-in-them maps to turn a quest in or buy some shit. I don't care what they add in atmosphere, the idea is bad. Second, the psi apparitions.

I'm guessing you haven't made it to the deep caverns yet. Don't forget your vest.

 

[Lhynn]

Theres no excuse not to make all small maps part of a bigger map, separate them with instant transitions, i dont care. But loading each map separately is what hurts, especially because loading times get longer and longer the longer you play the game, you need to quit it once every hour or so.

 

[Baron Dupek]

http://www.mediafire.com/download/02l7p0udfx4t548/mah_under_rail_portraits_from_dex.7z
I was so bored with delaying my playthrough I made these badly sized portraits. Around 550 of them (all hail mass image converters) with random avatars borrowed from the codex avatars database.
Mostly Shadowrun (humans only), some WL2, AoD, Deus Ex and whatelse.
And yes it contain THAT face because it was missed by devs in original release.

 

[ArchAngel]

I got a question about Find Hephaestus Research quest

Spoiler

where is this damn place? Colonel told me to go north from GMS compound and I tried to search the caves north and found nothing. Then I checked the wiki but those instructions only took me to the bunker where you get what you need for the next quest from that Colonel.
Now I got no clue. I even took few different directions with wiki instructions and looked through 15 cave maps but nothing

 

[Excidium II]

Theres no excuse not to make all small maps part of a bigger map, separate them with instant transitions, i dont care. But loading each map separately is what hurts, especially because loading times get longer and longer the longer you play the game, you need to quit it once every hour or so.

The game also freezes for a split second to load certain sound effects which is p. annoying.

 

[Blaine]

There's just no real excuse for the settlement areas.

What would you propose instead? Should large cities be made smaller? Should the layout and world building be sabotaged for the sake of convenience, and if so, how and how much?

If I were a bit more petty than I am, then I might suggest that you've been conditioned by console RPGs restricted by low system memory to accept tiny towns comprising a few small areas and with everything packed into a few convenient locations, or that you've perhaps been conditioned by MMOs to expect all the quest-givers and merchants to be located in one small area with a quick travel flying mount master nearby.

I wouldn't do that, though. That would be beyond gauche.

 

[Lhynn]

Maps are alright, its constant loading times what kills it.

 

[Eyestabber]

Chemical and energy pistols are the only reasons to consider a pistol build. Eventually you get to a point where many enemies will have immense mechanical DR/DT and much weaker energy/heat/acid/cold/etc . The .44 hammerer is a poor man's sniper with lolrandom damage and inferior range and the peashooters are completely worthless. Depending on the RNG, the hammerer will either kill an enemy with a single shot when combined with the ambush and steadfast aim feats or barely wound them. As for silenced pistols, they become completely useless by the moment you receive your second quest and face psi beetles for the first time.

I wish there was a very powerful pistol feat that gave the high-powered pistols a more predictable and deterministic damage range but required complete specialization in pistols, something like this from a completely different game except for not being that overpowered.

My thoughts exactly. I mean, WTF is this:

You'd think that the pistol has higher damage per shot right? Wrong. Same frame quality (98 vs 99 lel), same caliber and the pistol is LITERALLY a bad SMG. Extra critical chance and critical damage does NOT make up for the lack of burst fire and 67% higher base AP cost.

The Rapid .44 Hammerer is good, tho. Look:

"Poor man's sniper" isn't such a damning moniker since you can perform one-shots just like the sniper but unlike the sniper you can fire after moving, you have four shots instead of one and you still have your "poor man's burst fire"™. All in all, a strong and versatile weapon IF you can stomach the lolrandom damage spread. I'll do the math later, but I'm pretty sure the .44 Hammerer has better performance-per-AP against heavily armored targets than a 8.6 Steel Cat of the same quality due to how DT works. Not to mention better synergy with active skills and more effective use of special bullets. Compared to the SMG above I have ZERO doubts that the .44 Hammerer is simply better. But that SMG is 7.62, not 8.6 so one might say I skewed the sample to favor the pistol. If only I had a 99 quality Steel Cat frame to do proper testing...

But going back to the quoted post: YEAH, avoid anything not .44 Hammerer like the plague. Can't say much about energy pistols since I haven't used them yet, but they seem to have obvious synergy with aimed shot.

 

[veevoir]

Maybe it is not the fact pistol is underperforming, but the part where SMG is god amnogst men? I mean, I got a Steelcat with stats of your Jaguar off the wounded guy over burrower nest, which is pretty much first hour of the game.

In all the builds I tried - SMG+throwing stealth spec ops build certainly feels like the one that does control battlefield as well as rapes the shit out of oddity exploration.

 

[Eyestabber]

Maybe it is not the fact pistol is underperforming, but the part where SMG is god amnogst men? I mean, I got a Steelcat with stats of your Jaguar off the wounded guy over burrower nest, which is pretty much first hour of the game.

In all the builds I tried - SMG+throwing stealth spec ops build certainly feels like the one that does control battlefield as well as rapes the shit out of oddity exploration.

If you have 99 quality Steel Cat frame, can you post a screenshot of the crafting screen like I did? You don't need to actually be able to craft the weapon to see its stats. Having a 99 quality 8.6 Steel Cat for comparison would be very much appreciated.

 

[veevoir]

Nope, I'm at retarded tier level now with my character, in the junkyard.

Here's the steelcat I found on Chad though:

Found within hour of starting the game. I barely have mechanical skill to put any smg together at this point.

99 quality Hammerer barely makes more damage. Top kek.

 

[torpid]

I see that Blaine is Blaining really hard, battling windmills gigantic strawmen.

Also,

Although some of the oddly-sized map segments may be vestiges of the game's development, I've never really noticed them one way or another and, upon reflection, feel that they add variety. Take the seemingly useless L-shaped balcony leading to the Arena and merchants in Core City: perhaps there's a catwalk to that particular level from the elevator because it used to lead two ways, but the other side collapsed and a new railing was erected; or perhaps there's some massive old machinery just out of sight, wrapped around the superstructure, restricting how the level can be built.

"Upon consideration, the map section you identify as a weakness is in fact a strong point of the game, 10/10 would catwalk again" Blaintastic.

 

[Shadowfang]

Weren't the pistols nerfred hard, in some update, before the final release? I guess this is the result.
Before the nerf i played a gunslinger with a luger 5mm in one hand and a .44 in the other. I had fun fights and never felt overpowered. This thread is now postponing my gunslinger playthrough.

 

[Excidium II]

Maybe they should just put a min. skill requirement on pistols with caliber higher than 5mm and balance them accordingly?