Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Zetor]

It makes sense that there are some enemies that render one of your strategies useless, or that you'll end up having a tough time with (such as mid-game crossbow users vs. high mech resist enemies).

Still, it sounds like we went a little crazy with it in DC.

I've posted a lot of stuff about this earlier, but basically there are good and bad ways to do this. DC has both.

Good: cuttlesnails, industrial bots. Cuttlesnails are basically bladelings (slow melee-only hard targets weak to attrition), and there are plenty of alternative strategies to deal with them. Industrial bots are a pain, but limited in number and not that resistant to elemental damage (which everyone should have at this point, if only in the form of grenades/mines). If there was a DC area with like 20+ industrial bots you had to fight (and they respawned over time), it'd definitely fall under "Bad".

Can go either way: The final battle. It has a few ways to make it more manageable at least, but it's still a HP bloated mess that's either brute-forced in one turn by some builds (sniper, fist/hammer melee, psi with thought control / locus), or turns into a massive drawn-out battle of attrition by others (knives and especially xbows). Will need to give it a second try once I get enough patience to do the fishing and prep work necessary.

Bad: shrooms and deep worms. No real alternatives if you don't have high armor piercing. Respawn and very numerous compared to, say, industrial bots. Straight-up immunity to some options that may be central to builds (crits, traps). Worms are much worse than shrooms btw.

 

[Ziem]

Spoiler

theres only like a handful of these fucking crit immune mushroom things that you actually have to kill, you can run past most of them
plus, there is a biohazard suit somewhere in dc that grants 100% bio resistance which makes these encounters fairly easy with just about any build

Spoiler

Where's the biohazard suit? I'm pretty sure I explored every area and haven't found it... but yea, it makes the encounter trivial. I'm thinking that the protectorate chemical armor could work, too.

Spoiler

i dont remember where was it exactly, iirc i had to deal with tchortlings (the nearest hideout was far away) and there were toxic fumes everywhere

also yeah crossbows suck ass lategame. unlike guns, they cant just use green bullets of megarape against enemies with high mechanical damage, they're forced to use elemental/poison damage which doesnt scale

 

[Blackmill]

Could anyone confirm that Exothermic Aura is not supposed to scale with skill? It does exactly the same damage on my char with nearly 300 skill as it does on my char with 100 skill which seems like a bug.

On another note, peoples distaste for the Deep Caverns is surprising. It's been the highlight of the game so far. I don't want to spoil anything, so I won't say anything specific, but it's brilliantly designed in my opinion. I don't think it's as hard as some people claim either. I'm currently playing through it on both my OP char and my shit, underleveled char (entered at level 17), and both are doing fine. I'm even having a better time playing through on my shit char since I actually have to think about how to approach each combat rather than hitting three buttons and inflicting up to 3.5k damage.

 

[MrBuzzKill]

Also having "fun" in the Deep caverns now. But to be fair, so far this is the first area that's not a complete breeze to play

Spoiler

except for Carnifex and some of the shit in the Gauntlet

Again I hope my questions will be answered by the ending. Including:

Spoiler

Who or what are the Faceless, Tchort and how did they come to be.
Why do the Tchortists always claim to be a scientific organization based on investigating Tchort's genetic properties if no one except Eidein is actually allowed to see, let alone study it.
Why are they propagating their cult everywhere in Core city if they aren't looking for recuits.
Why is everyone in there treating Tchort like a god and not just a scientific curiosity. (they even have set phrases like "Magnificent Tchort!" and "Tchort guide me" etc)
How did Eidein convince a whole bunch of intelligent people to form a huge organization based on nothing? (since no proof of Tchort is ever presented to anybody) - that's actually a question you can ask in the game, but he pretty much shrugs it off with some "I work in mysterious ways" nonsense.
Why are the Faceless so dumb.
What was the cube and why do both the Faceless and Tchort want it (what was its actual function rather than "le mysterious ancient artifact of unspeakable power". i.e. Mass Effect-level explanation)

my OP char

Are you going to say what kind of OP build you made?

 

[Blackmill]

my OP char

Are you going to say what kind of OP build you made?

It's a psi character with 15 will and nearly 300 skill in each of the disciplines. At this stage, Telekinetic Punch can hit for over 400 (I think 415 or 420 is it's highest). Add in Neural Overclocking (30), a high quality Psionic Headband (80), and some Trance (100), and criticals do 4.1x damage. Then double the damage because of Telekinetic Proxy (Psionic Mania causes the Proxy's abilities to crit too) and you have just under 3.5k damage. Now, on average, and without Trance (since it's very rare and you generally won't want to use it), this does closer to 1.8-2k damage

I have yet to encounter an enemy I can't reliably kill in one turn. The only enemies tough enough to survive my standard approach have very low dodge, so Expose Weakness is a 90-95% hit chance, and that's all it takes. I could even add in Implosion at the start to do over 75% of their max health but that has been unnecessary so far. That said, this build struggles against large number of hard-hitting enemies that are too spread out to kill or control with AoE. It simply doesn't do much damage when Mania and Punch are on cooldown. Because of this the Coretech Warehouse quest was a massive pain in the ass. I think it took me over a dozen attempts until I decided to stand at the entrance where the attackers spawned, just to that I could attack them while they were grouped together.

 

[Blackmill]

I was really loving this game, but now I'm in the deep caverns and I even have problems finding the motivation to finish. Might just restart and try out another build (currently metal armor/assault rifles) instead.

About the objective down there:

Spoiler

I'm not even sure why I need to kill Tchort. I did all the Institute quests and sure, it doesn't sound like something with the interests of humankind at heart, but it also doesn't necessarily seem any more nefarious now than when I first heard the lecture by Minister Percival or whoever in core city. I'm still not sure what that object everyone want to get their hands on is, other than a source of electrical current, and now that I'm down here there's no emphasis on finding it anymore.

Regarding the objective:

Spoiler

The game recognizes that you have little reason to kill Tchort. It's acknowledged in your dialogue with Six (Rham Umbra or whatever) where you have the option to basically say, "Why the fuck should I kill Tchort when you haven't even told me what Tchort is?" I think there's an expectation that the player explore and find out on his own the truth behind Tchort. I'd encourage you to keep on playing. I was about to call it quits but then I reached the Arke station, and it's been great, and I mean really great.

 

[toro]

tter than I thought.

Is Cryogenic Induction worth it? I tried taking it at level 10 but I couldn't see how I'd ever deal 50%> mechanical or cold damage to an enemy. I don't know what high level psi powers are coming up. Metathermics just doesn't seem very good early on.

Nah man, I've skipped all the Metathermics feats. No enemy should live so long that I should need to stack like five cold spells on it anyway, and if it's really that strong then there are other strategies available.

Now that I'm level 23, I've realized that I almost never use Metathermics skills. They tend to be highly situational/potentially self-damaging/resisted by the enemy du jour. Thought Control and Psychokinesis can simply lock down and devastate entire groups of enemies without any assistance from Metathermics. Cryostasis is a good incapacitating skill, but costs six million psi points, so I almost never use it.

However, I remember Metathermics being a lot more useful (or at least, I used it more) in the early and part of the middle game, and it's important to get the Cerebral Trauma feat for Neural Overload if skipping Metathermics entirely. Along with Cryokinesis and Force Emission, it's one of the three "basic attack" psi abilities, and it bypasses all shields and armor.

Yeah, Neural Overload (or as I call it, Nerve Staple) has 100% accuracy, good range, bypasses armor and shields, is silent, and is rarely resisted very much by Resolve. Therefore, it's immensely superior to the entire crossbows category.

It's one of the earliest and simplest psi skills, and it's the shit throughout the game.

I'm playing a pure psi build and let me tell you this: Metathermics are the bomb :D

 

[Sykar]

It makes sense that there are some enemies that render one of your strategies useless, or that you'll end up having a tough time with (such as mid-game crossbow users vs. high mech resist enemies).

Still, it sounds like we went a little crazy with it in DC.

I've posted a lot of stuff about this earlier, but basically there are good and bad ways to do this. DC has both.

Good: cuttlesnails, industrial bots. Cuttlesnails are basically bladelings (slow melee-only hard targets weak to attrition), and there are plenty of alternative strategies to deal with them. Industrial bots are a pain, but limited in number and not that resistant to elemental damage (which everyone should have at this point, if only in the form of grenades/mines). If there was a DC area with like 20+ industrial bots you had to fight (and they respawned over time), it'd definitely fall under "Bad".

Can go either way: The final battle. It has a few ways to make it more manageable at least, but it's still a HP bloated mess that's either brute-forced in one turn by some builds (sniper, fist/hammer melee, psi with thought control / locus), or turns into a massive drawn-out battle of attrition by others (knives and especially xbows). Will need to give it a second try once I get enough patience to do the fishing and prep work necessary.

Bad: shrooms and deep worms. No real alternatives if you don't have high armor piercing. Respawn and very numerous compared to, say, industrial bots. Straight-up immunity to some options that may be central to builds (crits, traps). Worms are much worse than shrooms btw.

Instead of plain immunity they should get extra reduced damage from crits or limit the maximum crit damage multiplier. Changes to crit chances might be an idea too.

 

[hell bovine]

I was really loving this game, but now I'm in the deep caverns and I even have problems finding the motivation to finish. Might just restart and try out another build (currently metal armor/assault rifles) instead.

About the objective down there:

Spoiler

I'm not even sure why I need to kill Tchort. I did all the Institute quests and sure, it doesn't sound like something with the interests of humankind at heart, but it also doesn't necessarily seem any more nefarious now than when I first heard the lecture by Minister Percival or whoever in core city. I'm still not sure what that object everyone want to get their hands on is, other than a source of electrical current, and now that I'm down here there's no emphasis on finding it anymore.

Regarding the objective:

Spoiler

The game recognizes that you have little reason to kill Tchort. It's acknowledged in your dialogue with Six (Rham Umbra or whatever) where you have the option to basically say, "Why the fuck should I kill Tchort when you haven't even told me what Tchort is?" I think there's an expectation that the player explore and find out on his own the truth behind Tchort. I'd encourage you to keep on playing. I was about to call it quits but then I reached the Arke station, and it's been great, and I mean really great.

If you explore the tchort insitute, then you can learn something that actually makes them look like evil cultist. Whether that gives you some motivation is another question. Personally, I think this could have been handled better.

Spoiler

Regardless whether the player is more of a villain or a hero himself, kill-or-be-killed is pretty good motivation for anyone. It comes down to "survival of the fittest", which is ironic, considering that tchort's entire shtick is about evolving. It's just that Six' speech doesn't present it that way, instead of going the pseudomystical "I have seen it" route.

But my problem with deep caverns is that the majority of the encounters down there

Spoiler

the exception being the faceless camp

gets boring quickly. The enemies are not that challenging, because while it takes time to bring a shroom or a worm down, they don't do enough damage to be dangerous. And in the case of respawning critters

Spoiler

like those burrowers outside of power plant

there is only so many times you can encounter exactly the same group before it gets annoying.
This is especially noticeable if you fight your way through the tchort institute, because the battles there are both challenging and fun (even though the enemy could definitely benefit from better group AI).

 

[toro]

Mind telling me what you used to kill those creatures? My psi char needs to use Expose Weakness and Telikinetic Punch to kill them in one turn but I figure Pyrokonetic Stream may also work if they have low enough fire resistance. Unfortunately I don't have that ability since I wasn't expecting crit-immune enemies.

They're crit-immune? There's a Psychosis crit-based specialization for psi (not to mention crit-based weapon feats and components), and HP-bloated enemies in the fucking hardest area of the game are crit-immune?

You know, I'm starting to slide back along the scale from "official Stygian Software shill" and towards "bomb Serbia." I keep discovering little factoids so intensely stupid that even though I love this game to death, I can't help but be exasperated.

To answer your question, I use Telekinetic Proxy -> Premeditation -> Implosion -> Telekinetic Punch -> Neural Overload -> Neural Overload -> Neural Overload. It just barely deals enough damage to kill them in one turn (occasionally one is left with a tiny sliver).

One word: Metathermics.

Also, nice meltdown.

 

[Cyberarmy]

I only find metathermics usefull while using pyro&cryo orb not that useful imo. Though its still much better then its pshycostatic electricity. (which I also took......................)

 

[toro]

Also having "fun" in the Deep caverns now. But to be fair, so far this is the first area that's not a complete breeze to play

Spoiler

except for Carnifex and some of the shit in the Gauntlet

Again I hope my questions will be answered by the ending. Including:

Spoiler

Who or what are the Faceless, Tchort and how did they come to be.
Why do the Tchortists always claim to be a scientific organization based on investigating Tchort's genetic properties if no one except Eidein is actually allowed to see, let alone study it.
Why are they propagating their cult everywhere in Core city if they aren't looking for recuits.
Why is everyone in there treating Tchort like a god and not just a scientific curiosity. (they even have set phrases like "Magnificent Tchort!" and "Tchort guide me" etc)
How did Eidein convince a whole bunch of intelligent people to form a huge organization based on nothing? (since no proof of Tchort is ever presented to anybody) - that's actually a question you can ask in the game, but he pretty much shrugs it off with some "I work in mysterious ways" nonsense.
Why are the Faceless so dumb.
What was the cube and why do both the Faceless and Tchort want it (what was its actual function rather than "le mysterious ancient artifact of unspeakable power". i.e. Mass Effect-level explanation)

my OP char

Are you going to say what kind of OP build you made?

I will say only one thing: players like you deserve a better ending. In fact, Styg should read your post, go in hibernating, rework Deep Caverns and release a classic.

 

[hell bovine]

I was really loving this game, but now I'm in the deep caverns and I even have problems finding the motivation to finish. Might just restart and try out another build (currently metal armor/assault rifles) instead.

About the objective down there:

Spoiler

I'm not even sure why I need to kill Tchort. I did all the Institute quests and sure, it doesn't sound like something with the interests of humankind at heart, but it also doesn't necessarily seem any more nefarious now than when I first heard the lecture by Minister Percival or whoever in core city. I'm still not sure what that object everyone want to get their hands on is, other than a source of electrical current, and now that I'm down here there's no emphasis on finding it anymore.

It's a shame there is no option to double cross everyone sending your character into increasingly suicidal missions by siding with Tchort. Having it as an option just like you can willingly join the Master in Fallout would be cool.

I don't think tchort is interested in your character.

 

[toro]

I only find metathermics usefull while using pyro&cryo orb not that useful imo. Though its still much better then its pshycostatic electricity. (which I also took......................)

I agree. But Cryokinesis is basically a sniper rifle for free

my OP char

Are you going to say what kind of OP build you made?

It's a psi character with 15 will and nearly 300 skill in each of the disciplines. At this stage, Telekinetic Punch can hit for over 400 (I think 415 or 420 is it's highest). Add in Neural Overclocking (30), a high quality Psionic Headband (80), and some Trance (100), and criticals do 4.1x damage. Then double the damage because of Telekinetic Proxy (Psionic Mania causes the Proxy's abilities to crit too) and you have just under 3.5k damage. Now, on average, and without Trance (since it's very rare and you generally won't want to use it), this does closer to 1.8-2k damage

I have yet to encounter an enemy I can't reliably kill in one turn. The only enemies tough enough to survive my standard approach have very low dodge, so Expose Weakness is a 90-95% hit chance, and that's all it takes. I could even add in Implosion at the start to do over 75% of their max health but that has been unnecessary so far. That said, this build struggles against large number of hard-hitting enemies that are too spread out to kill or control with AoE. It simply doesn't do much damage when Mania and Punch are on cooldown. Because of this the Coretech Warehouse quest was a massive pain in the ass. I think it took me over a dozen attempts until I decided to stand at the entrance where the attackers spawned, just to that I could attack them while they were grouped together.

Thanks for ruining my run. I was going for this shit but now I already know what the end game looks.

 

[hell bovine]

Thanks for ruining my run. I was going for this shit but now I already know what the end game looks.

How is that ruining things for you? - this is not meant as sarcasm, just asking

I am playing a metathermics/psychokinetics mage with grenades, and it has been a lot of fun. (excluding deep caverns, but I think that area needs a major enemy overhaul to be interesting to me) For me the trick was to not go pure mage, but rather treat psi as abilities tied to personality of my character, if that makes any sense. Which is why with an explosives expert I went for metathermics; seemed fitting that a character who likes to blow things up would develop similar mind abilities. For a stealthy infiltrator I'd go for thought control instead, mixed with traps perhaps, instead. You avoid becoming to overpowered, because with other offensive skills you need to take their stats and feats into account, and it isn't just about spamming spells left and right.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Eh, hypotermia probably helps against that mobs, also think of the thermodynamic destabilaztion damage they'll inflict!

BTW do not cast cold spells on enemy that is inflicted with thermo.des. You'll just douse the victim.

 

[toro]

Thanks for ruining my run. I was going for this shit but now I already know what the end game looks.

How is that ruining things for you? - this is not meant as sarcasm, just asking

I am playing a metathermics/psychokinetics mage with grenades, and it has been a lot of fun. (excluding deep caverns, but I think that area needs a major enemy overhaul to be interesting to me) For me the trick was to not go pure mage, but rather treat psi as abilities tied to personality of my character, if that makes any sense. Which is why with an explosives expert I went for metathermics; seemed fitting that a character who likes to blow things up would develop similar mind abilities. For a stealthy infiltrator I'd go for thought control instead, mixed with traps perhaps, instead. You avoid becoming to overpowered, because with other offensive skills you need to take their stats and feats into account, and it isn't just about spamming spells left and right.

I derive simple pleasure from finding out how much damage I can inflict Now, I have to compare my character with Blackmill 's ... and it sucks.

* ... but I'm level 11 so it will be fixed by the end. I hope.

 

[Gord]

Anyone got some experience with chemical or energy pistols?
Originally I had planned on using them with my char (who was supposed to be some kind of scientist-crafter-something), but now I'm mostly just using SMGs and a Sniper Rifle.
I've probably fucked up the build to some extend, but I went into the game mostly blind, so that's probably to be expected.

Anyway, Chemical and Energy pistols just seem kinda underwhelming. The damage isn't all that high, they are difficult to acquire (still haven't found an energy weapon blueprint) and secondary effects (chemical weapons) have a pretty low probability to trigger.
If they do they are not that impressive, either.

 

[toro]

I have to reconsider my stance on Persuation:

Junkyard:

Spoiler

50 Persuation allows you to convince SGS to help the Black Eels which will impact the end game for this location.

Camp Hathor:

Spoiler

65 Persuation allows you to make a truce with the Rathound King which is something I really like.

 

[toro]

Anyone got some experience with chemical or energy pistols?
Originally I had planned on using them with my char (who was supposed to be some kind of scientist-crafter-something), but now I'm mostly just using SMGs and a Sniper Rifle.
I've probably fucked up the build to some extend, but I went into the game mostly blind, so that's probably to be expected.

Anyway, Chemical and Energy pistols just seem kinda underwhelming. The damage isn't all that high, they are difficult to acquire (still haven't found an energy weapon blueprint) and secondary effects (chemical weapons) have a pretty low probability to trigger.
If they do they are not that impressive, either.

Au contraire, energy and chemical pistols are quite fun: You need high Dexterity/Perception for them, craft the good stuff and the proper feats to make them work.

Unfortunately there something is seriously wrong with them overall (think about damage/ap cost) therefore don't expect the same damage output as AR/Snipers.

I think they are more fitted for an expert play-though therefore it's alright if you have problems with them.

 

[hell bovine]

Thanks for ruining my run. I was going for this shit but now I already know what the end game looks.

How is that ruining things for you? - this is not meant as sarcasm, just asking

I am playing a metathermics/psychokinetics mage with grenades, and it has been a lot of fun. (excluding deep caverns, but I think that area needs a major enemy overhaul to be interesting to me) For me the trick was to not go pure mage, but rather treat psi as abilities tied to personality of my character, if that makes any sense. Which is why with an explosives expert I went for metathermics; seemed fitting that a character who likes to blow things up would develop similar mind abilities. For a stealthy infiltrator I'd go for thought control instead, mixed with traps perhaps, instead. You avoid becoming to overpowered, because with other offensive skills you need to take their stats and feats into account, and it isn't just about spamming spells left and right.

I derive simple pleasure from finding out how much damage I can inflict Now, I have to compare my character with Blackmill 's ... and it sucks.

* ... but I'm level 11 so it will be fixed by the end. I hope.

Well then, here are my few opinions: psychokinesis is great at hitting single targets, but metathermics and thought control are far better in dealing with crowds. Avoid both hypothermia and cryogenic induction, however; my mage has both, and they are not that useful. (except for the satisfaction of turning your enemies into literal puddles of water, just like thermodynamic destabilization turns them into little ash piles :D). Thermodynamiity is useful, but not always, because cold damage will put out fires and cancel destabilization. Go for high will and self-crafted thermo psi bands, learn how to aim cryo orb so that the shards have a better chance to hit a group on enemies, and you should get your high numbers.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Anyone got some experience with chemical or energy pistols?
Originally I had planned on using them with my char (who was supposed to be some kind of scientist-crafter-something), but now I'm mostly just using SMGs and a Sniper Rifle.
I've probably fucked up the build to some extend, but I went into the game mostly blind, so that's probably to be expected.

Anyway, Chemical and Energy pistols just seem kinda underwhelming. The damage isn't all that high, they are difficult to acquire (still haven't found an energy weapon blueprint) and secondary effects (chemical weapons) have a pretty low probability to trigger.
If they do they are not that impressive, either.

Energy pistol shine at criticals(% 250 crit damage easly available while crafting) and chemical pistols shine with procs. Acid vials often roots enemies in place.

 

[Tito Anic]

Anyone got some experience with chemical or energy pistols?

This might be useful for you, it is comentary how to build char which specifically uses energy, chem pistols.

 

[Inf0mercial]

I made an inferno pistol with a 89% to set people to burning and that was with medium quality materials i imagine if you bothered to make a higher quality one you could have 2 people a turn running around while on fire, would need high dex i guess if you stacked everything you could get maybe 3 shots in per round?

 

[ArchAngel]

Resisted everything in this game, which can be considered as a frustration by someone, but damn Gauntlet, I have no words.
Not really sure why it's even in the game. Absolutely 0 fun doing this shit, even for 2 thousand chips. Working as a gigolo in Drop Zone is probably more entertaining than this.
I assume it was suppose to give the Running Man feel, but instead it feels like someone just played a rogue shit dungeon crawler, and decided to make something like that in UnderRail.

I agree, I quit that shit in last dungeon after I figured out I would need to start over and make sure I 100% clear all the previous ones because someone (Styg) though last room was well designed...