Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Doctor Sbaitso]

How many bouts in the arena? Next fight for me is the Invictus.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

How many bouts in the arena? Next fight for me is the Invictus.

That would be the last one.

 

[Tito Anic]

It wasn't an issue during my psi playthrough and wasn't a huge issue during my long-ago melee playthrough,

Ok, i am interested how melee char will hold up in DC and final fight ?

Thanks

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

It wasn't an issue during my psi playthrough and wasn't a huge issue during my long-ago melee playthrough,

Ok, i am interested how melee char will hold up in DC and final fight ?

Thanks

What type of melee?

 

[Tito Anic]

What type of melee?

Mostly hammer but then crippled i use kukri, claw also as support - grenades, traps.

 

[oneself]

It wasn't an issue during my psi playthrough and wasn't a huge issue during my long-ago melee playthrough,

Ok, i am interested how melee char will hold up in DC and final fight ?

Thanks

Unarmed I think is the strongest, so it will fare the best.

Knife is decent against humanoids, but there isn't many in DC and a big area of it require you to fight waves of bots.

Can't say much about sledge. I couldn't progress very far with it because I am taking way too much damage for my liking. It might get better with some super steel stuff.

I also don't know how hard the boss will hit you if you don't weaken it. I don't even know if you can kill it.

 

[epeli]

Ok, i am interested how melee char will hold up in DC and final fight ?

Thanks

Should be easy for any decent melee build, but the final fight takes a bit longer for slow-moving hard hitters than gottagosanicfast agility builds.

 

[roshan]

Styg I am wondering what in the world is the logic behind this. Trying to craft a pistol that can compete with my steel cat (crafted from upper 80's quality IIRC). I have come up with this Neo Luger (112 quality). How in the world are the AP costs of pistols in anyway justified compared to the minor increase in damage. This is just makes no sense at all.

 

[oneself]

Styg I am wondering what in the world is the logic behind this. Trying to craft a pistol that can compete with my steel cat (crafted from upper 80's quality IIRC). I have come up with this Neo Luger (112 quality). How in the world are the AP costs of pistols in anyway justified compared to the minor increase in damage. This is just makes no sense at all.

Hard to compare different calibers though.

What damage can you get if you use a 7.62 barrel for Neo Luger?

 

[veevoir]

Hard to compare different calibers though.

What damage can you get if you use a 7.62 barrel for Neo Luger?

Lower. The different caliber kinda reinforces the point.

 

[oneself]

Hard to compare different calibers though.

What damage can you get if you use a 7.62 barrel for Neo Luger?

Lower. The different caliber kinda reinforces the point.

Whoops, I meant AP cost.

As for damage, Neo Luger has lower spread and I think it does so by improving min damage while taking away max damage.

To compare with steel cat it is more appropriate to use hammerer as reference.

 

[epeli]

Styg I am wondering what in the world is the logic behind this. Trying to craft a pistol that can compete with my steel cat (crafted from upper 80's quality IIRC). I have come up with this Neo Luger (112 quality). How in the world are the AP costs of pistols in anyway justified compared to the minor increase in damage. This is just makes no sense at all.

Pistols were kinda like this in the last alpha version:

But IMO Styg went overboard with the pistol nerfs. It's still possible to build a decent pistol-focused character, but as someone on Underrail forums said: "If you wanna use pistols, you have to just accept your inner munchkin."

 

[Lhynn]

Because it would have been a harder position to defend. The layout of the protectorate makes it a nightmare to invade in big numbers. Theres a bottleneck and a heavily fortified position right after a flight of stairs, giving them both higher ground and a natural killzone. Plasma turrets and a dreadnaught wait for any hostile. After you are done with that there theres a corridor with 3 plasma turrets covering all the angles and 5 dreadnaughts close by that can be there in under a minute.

It was one of my most enjoyable times in the game taking that place, because both the numbers and the layout of the place were huge obstacles for me.

My mage destroyed the entire fort apogee base and I don't see how arriving via metro would have made any difference. Whether you come out of the tunnel or jump out of the train, you still get a penalty to the initiative at the barricade, and that's the only thing that has an influence on the outcome of the battle. Having to walk through that empty tunnel before does not. Sure, the barricade gives them a bottleneck, but the only reason you can't attack from the other side is because the conveniently placed metro train is a static part of the scenery. That's not good design either, in my opinion; I guess the other passengers got a nice view of the fireworks.

Because the world doesnt revolve around the player.
Good design is not convenient design, unless you are making a car or a plane.

 

[Blaine]

Yeah, Styg apparently nerfed pistols across the board by a full 20% of their damage (or so I read), and are borderline unusable.

epeli The feat is called Execute, not Mildly Tickle. I really don't see the logic there. I could kill Balor in a single turn at level, oh 15, as psi? I critted Eidein, who surely has astronomical Resolve, for 500 with Neural Overload on a Tranquility build.

Guess that means psi is due for another round of nerfs. Fortunately, already enjoyed it during my 1.0 playthrough.

 

[Tito Anic]

Whats the point killing faceles in CC or i am missing something here?

 

[Blaine]

They're just an encounter for flavor (and free loot), as far as I'm aware.

 

[epeli]

epeli The feat is called Execute, not Mildly Tickle. I really don't see the logic there. I could kill Balor in a single turn at level, oh 15, as psi? I critted Eidein, who surely has astronomical Resolve, for 500 with Neural Overload on a Tranquility build.

The problem wasn't Execute.
That 4k crit merely illustrates the extent of the insane damage modifier stacking pistols had going on. The main thing was that you could reliably destroy pretty much any combat encounter in a single turn with all that damage stacking on homing hits from electric pistols.

However, I'm still not sure why Styg had to go and nerf pistol base damage by 20% in addition to nerfing every single pistol feat and adding limitations to electroshock pistols.

And about Eidein... he might have astronomical Resolve but Neural Overload still fries his brains real good, thanks to his equally astronomical Intelligence. I've seen 1k crit with MB+NO.

 

[Blaine]

Yeah, I figured his Intelligence had something to do with it, although that's slightly silly since

Spoiler

he sits in his office wondering what in the world is happening when the tremors begin, despite constant proximity to and even an old war with the Faceless.

 

[hell bovine]

Because it would have been a harder position to defend. The layout of the protectorate makes it a nightmare to invade in big numbers. Theres a bottleneck and a heavily fortified position right after a flight of stairs, giving them both higher ground and a natural killzone. Plasma turrets and a dreadnaught wait for any hostile. After you are done with that there theres a corridor with 3 plasma turrets covering all the angles and 5 dreadnaughts close by that can be there in under a minute.

It was one of my most enjoyable times in the game taking that place, because both the numbers and the layout of the place were huge obstacles for me.

My mage destroyed the entire fort apogee base and I don't see how arriving via metro would have made any difference. Whether you come out of the tunnel or jump out of the train, you still get a penalty to the initiative at the barricade, and that's the only thing that has an influence on the outcome of the battle. Having to walk through that empty tunnel before does not. Sure, the barricade gives them a bottleneck, but the only reason you can't attack from the other side is because the conveniently placed metro train is a static part of the scenery. That's not good design either, in my opinion; I guess the other passengers got a nice view of the fireworks.

Because the world doesnt revolve around the player.
Good design is not convenient design, unless you are making a car or a plane.

I guess you don't mind the metro train conveniently waiting for your character to finish with slaughtering the entire base. Maybe the driver and other passengers truly don't mind. Or maybe it's simply a ghost train.

Good design should also involve common sense. Failing at that, it could at least be less annoying.

 

[Blaine]

I guess you don't mind the metro train conveniently waiting for your character to finish with slaughtering the entire base. Maybe the driver and other passengers truly don't mind. Or maybe it's simply a ghost train.

This may shock you, but Underrail was developed with limited resources. Animating the train and providing it with AI, simulated passengers, and complicated scripting would have been an extravagance.

You're really, REALLY reaching to justify your argument that everything should be convenient for the player. If the absurdity of your above statement isn't apparent to you, then you're neck-deep in rationalization.

 

[ST'Ranger]

Yeah, I figured his Intelligence had something to do with it, although that's slightly silly since

Spoiler

he sits in his office wondering what in the world is happening when the tremors begin, despite constant proximity to and even an old war with the Faceless.

Spoiler

The Faceless have been totally absent for a very long period which is not as clear to the player (obviously) but is made explicit by conversations in the Institute. Their presence in Core City was a double shock as a result. The Institute holds the Faceless as bitter enemies, but they haven't seen each other for some time. The only "sightings" of Faceless in recent years consist of rumors about the West Wing.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

The problem when any game that has such in depth mechanics is hurting me now...

I'm too good. Nothing is difficult anymore.

 

[hell bovine]

I guess you don't mind the metro train conveniently waiting for your character to finish with slaughtering the entire base. Maybe the driver and other passengers truly don't mind. Or maybe it's simply a ghost train.

This may shock you, but Underrail was developed with limited resources. Animating the train and providing it with AI, simulated passengers, and complicated scripting would have been an extravagance.

You're really, REALLY reaching to justify your argument that everything should be convenient for the player. If the absurdity of your above statement isn't apparent to you, then you're neck-deep in rationalization.

This may come as a shock to you, but it's possible to design the terrain layout so that it doesn't feature the only entry point next to a standing train AND doesn't feature an empty tunnel serving only as a method of area transition. Oh, and btw, this argument is about how Underrail features numerous passages, tunnels or caves with little or no content in them, serving only as area transitions. But if you don't realize this, then you're neck-deep in your generalizations.

edit: Though I have to admit, the game failing to acknowledge that the protectorate base has been attacked and wiped out, is actually far more annoying than the tunnel. Nothing like getting

Spoiler

the ally of protectorate ending slides

after killing all of them.

 

[ArchAngel]

I guess you don't mind the metro train conveniently waiting for your character to finish with slaughtering the entire base. Maybe the driver and other passengers truly don't mind. Or maybe it's simply a ghost train.

This may shock you, but Underrail was developed with limited resources. Animating the train and providing it with AI, simulated passengers, and complicated scripting would have been an extravagance.

You're really, REALLY reaching to justify your argument that everything should be convenient for the player. If the absurdity of your above statement isn't apparent to you, then you're neck-deep in rationalization.

This may come as a shock to you, but it's possible to design the terrain layout so that it doesn't feature the only entry point next to a standing train AND doesn't feature an empty tunnel serving only as a method of area transition. Oh, and btw, this argument is about how Underrail features numerous passages, tunnels or caves with little or no content in them, serving only as area transitions. But if you don't realize this, then you're neck-deep in your generalizations.

Empty caves argument I have seen too often. My guess is that same people that bring it up also didn't like playing BG1. For me BG1 is best IE game precisely for the exploration reasons and I don't mind any of the Underrail "empty" caves and passages.

 

[Blaine]

Guys, some of the hundreds of caves aren't filled with stuff, and I have to walk through them to get to the next cave. Also, occasionally the fast travel is further than two inches away from the merchants.

SHIT GAME 5/10, FUCKING AMATEUR DESIGN, HOPE UNDERRAIL 2 IS BETTER