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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
10,009
I made the gauntlet my bitch on my first time. Buncha cry babies, if you cant beat it then ignore it, its optional content and it favors some builds more than others, and thats perfectly fine, its an rpg.
It doesn't favor some builds more than others. Some rooms are just better for certain builds, while others better for others. The problem is, you don't know what kind of room you'll get, which leads to savescumming. RNG is exactly the point of Gauntlet, I guess, and I'm okay if certain room is harder for me, and takes more time to complete, but your opponents don't give a fuck. They can't die, they can't be slowed down, they don't need to fight enemies in the last room, and they don't need to collect keys. The worst part is that you don't know anything of their progress until the last room.
Well, i think the point of the gauntlet isnt that you are facing some weak npcs, its a race against yourself. how well you do in each of the floors and how fast you are at the last one against an arbitrary clock.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
Then you fight battles and get more random shit and some healing items
Or not. I didn't get a single one aside from those in beginning and had a run with almost all-fight rooms.
Putting some healing items in the beginning of every room would be a good start at improving the Gauntlet. Or, put exactly 4 healing items of a kind at the start, since you go through 4 rooms, but do not give any during Gauntlet - logical and a hint for a player there won't be any more.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,597
The only way to complete it without butthurt is by collecting all 4 keys, savescumming for better rooms, and scouting for locations of the keys first.

I got maze room, coil spiders, azuridae and electric room. The first was easy, the second was a little bit harder (without my equipment to boost stealth I couldn't hide from them, also, the locker with the key had an electric trap you couldn't avoid, so I had to take all 3 or 4 spiders first), azuridae was a breeze (I just completed it stealthy, while collecting shrooms to remove lights), and electric room was the easiest.

In the end, one of the "runners" appeared in the final room only when I was near the switch. I haven't found the other one.
Also, the room with rocks and burrowers can cause some serious performance drops. There are a lot of spawns, and if burrowers hear you they make even more. All of this is multiplied by the amount rocks you need to destroy. So when I tried to break a wall first time I had a CTD. Tried one more time, and my fps dropped to 1-2 for several minutes. Decided to avoid this room completely.
And that is terrible design.
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
Because it would have been a harder position to defend. The layout of the protectorate makes it a nightmare to invade in big numbers. Theres a bottleneck and a heavily fortified position right after a flight of stairs, giving them both higher ground and a natural killzone. Plasma turrets and a dreadnaught wait for any hostile. After you are done with that there theres a corridor with 3 plasma turrets covering all the angles and 5 dreadnaughts close by that can be there in under a minute.

It was one of my most enjoyable times in the game taking that place, because both the numbers and the layout of the place were huge obstacles for me.

My mage destroyed the entire fort apogee base and I don't see how arriving via metro would have made any difference. Whether you come out of the tunnel or jump out of the train, you still get a penalty to the initiative at the barricade, and that's the only thing that has an influence on the outcome of the battle. Having to walk through that empty tunnel before does not. Sure, the barricade gives them a bottleneck, but the only reason you can't attack from the other side is because the conveniently placed metro train is a static part of the scenery. That's not good design either, in my opinion; I guess the other passengers got a nice view of the fireworks.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,795
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Jesus fucking God damn Christ. In the very few cases when Styg put the quick travel more than two seconds away from the city entrance, it's "bad design" and we need to complain about it.

Just download that CheatEngine shit so you can turbosprint everywhere.
 

Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
I've actually found Cryokinetic Orb very reliable (over 80% in my recent testing) as a guaranteed kill so long as the orb lands on an adjacent tile. That said, I've been using it more like a single target ability. As you mentioned, it's a bit unreliable as an AoE, especially when alternatives like Destabilization exist.

I think Psi is a bit too powerful but I don't think it should be nerfed directly. Psi can be made more difficult by simply including more fights like the Coretech Warehouse were you will run out of psi-points. Improving the AI so that enemies don't clump as much would also add challenge. Maybe increase the cooldown on Psi-boosters too. And make Force Field's duration random so it's not such an abusable "reset" button. I don't think these changes would affect other builds that much since melee and ranged tend to have much more consistent turn-to-turn damage.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,795
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Psi is very powerful, but it's a bit of a one-pump chump. Even as Tranquility with 140 psi points and -20% psi cost, my psi is completely gone (and the good cooldowns are creeping) after two turns in any tough encounter. After a psi booster and one more turn, you're running on fumes.

Whereas a rifleman/grenadier can spray out obscene damage pretty much constantly. Not quite as much alpha or crowd control, but a lot more staying power.
 

Zetor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
1,706
Location
Budapest, Hungary
Yeah, pure psi essentially has two weaknesses: black dragon poison / other forms of psi inhibition, and running out of juice. The former is ultra rare and has a counter, and the latter is only a problem during a handful of setpiece encounters you can't easily reset... so essentially the coretech warehouse, the last Protectorate mission, and parts of Arke. Anywhere else you can just run to an adjacent zone / retreat to a room and close the door (if the enemies don't have opposable thumbs) or just place a 5-turn forcefield to allow premed and psi booster cooldowns to come back up.
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
Jesus fucking God damn Christ. In the very few cases when Styg put the quick travel more than two seconds away from the city entrance, it's "bad design" and we need to complain about it.

Just download that CheatEngine shit so you can turbosprint everywhere.
I've used cheatengine with speedhack. It actually underlines how much pointless walking there is.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,795
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
During 120+ hours of play as my psi Jedi, I never found the blueprint for Psi Reinvigorator in any container or at any merchant (not that it would have mattered, since my DEX was low and I wasn't allowed to fish successfully). It didn't really matter, since I was never affected by it. Branching out into high Stealth really helped in that regard, as things tended to die before they could even begin to remember they were alive.

My new AR commando found that blueprint for sale at Blaine's less than ten hours into the game. I bought it, too, since from what I can see, it's the only way to turn Statolith into a profitable good.

So, my psi lord never had that psi medicine blueprint, while my stormtrooper does.
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
4,748
Location
New Zealand - Pronouns: HE/HIM
question

just reached camp hathor and the boat travel has been unlocked

i can now go to core city

should i go or stay and dick around

havent touched the battery plant yet or resolved the black eels secret passage quest

id only go to core city for shopping at this stage

level 9 smg/psi/trap build

ABF0459C31ED48FDBEC4FA51A559F26C5A32D259
 

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
1,797
Location
Riding the train, high on cocaine
Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
question

just reached camp hathor and the boat travel has been unlocked

i can now go to core city

should i go or stay and dick around

havent touched the battery plant yet or resolved the black eels secret passage quest

id only go to core city for shopping at this stage

level 9 smg/psi/trap build

ABF0459C31ED48FDBEC4FA51A559F26C5A32D259

Go shopping and oddity pickpocketing.

Whereas a rifleman/grenadier can spray out obscene damage pretty much constantly.

Switching from SMG to assault I raged so hard I can barely make 1 burst per turn and only with a good hornet 2/turn with adrenaline. Not to mention low mobility of armored juggernaut.


Then I sprayed a group of enemies with a 9 bullets burst and they all died. Huh.
 

Mystary!

Arcane
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
2,633
Location
Holmia
Minor nitpick but... inventory managment would be less of a hassle if it had a row of tabs/icons instead of a dropdown menu, that thing just requires too many clicks to use.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,795
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
I'm so sick of this shit, I could scream. It wasn't an issue during my psi playthrough and wasn't a huge issue during my long-ago melee playthrough, but it was highly annoying on my crossbow playthrough, and is even worse with a heavy armor guy who can barely move. In a game where you lose shitloads of ranged weapon accuracy for moving first, this shit is fucking retarded.

If you can see the model on the damn screen, you have LOS and should be able to shoot it. Fix ASAP.

92a95ac053.png
 

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
1,797
Location
Riding the train, high on cocaine
Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
I'm so sick of this shit, I could scream. It wasn't an issue during my psi playthrough and wasn't a huge issue during my long-ago melee playthrough, but it was highly annoying on my crossbow playthrough, and is even worse with a heavy armor guy who can barely move. In a game where you lose shitloads of ranged weapon accuracy for moving first, this shit is fucking retarded.

If you can see the model on the damn screen, you have LOS and should be able to shoot it. Fix ASAP.
92a95ac053.png

This shit annoys me to no end as well. It seems this is an issue with grids having subtle layer of smaller grids underneath for smooth walking during exploration.. and then combat only respects the 'bigger' grid and orders you to snap to it before you can do anything. This can happen even at point blank range.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
That's nothing, now when they shoot you with lightning bolts or for 200-300 psi damage and yet you don't have LOS to them now that's maddening.

I also dislike that in the game, objects have realistic size when it comes to aiming at them. Meaning you can't aim at a tile (remember Fallout Tactics and blind shots with machine guns), you have to aim at creature model itself. That's p. crazy, and can actually make small monsters untouchable behind some objects. At least 2-3 times I was held by mutant dog in acid blob while it standed behind door and ate my face.

Doors. **aliens hand gesture**

(I hope I m not an idiot and didn't miss some autoaim feature lel)
 

Mystary!

Arcane
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
2,633
Location
Holmia
Yeah, I don't know how many times I've missclicked behind an enemy because he's reeling back and forth from a stun or something or managed to click that one pixel between their legs...
 

Nines

Learned
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
230
should i go or stay and dick around
The latter. This area in the south of SGS is mostly a dead end. In my opinion you should explore it, do some quests, and then forget about it.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
721
This shit annoys me to no end as well. It seems this is an issue with grids having subtle layer of smaller grids underneath for smooth walking during exploration.. and then combat only respects the 'bigger' grid and orders you to snap to it before you can do anything. This can happen even at point blank range.

Well, it's probably due to line of sight artifacts in precise permissive field of view. It would happen just the same using the underlying float positioning, but the nature of TB combat makes it so much easier to notice. It's almost as if the engine was originally designed for RTwP.

(I hope I m not an idiot and didn't miss some autoaim feature lel)
Try both Tab and Z. They let you highlight interactive objects in opposite orders, so one or the other should let you click at the target you want when there are multiple clickable things on top of each other.

Yeah, I don't know how many times I've missclicked behind an enemy because he's reeling back and forth from a stun or something or managed to click that one pixel between their legs...
Try holding shift to prevent accidental movement.
 

circ

Arcane
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
11,470
Location
Great Pacific Garbage Patch
Another fun issue with those weirdo grids is trying to lay a trap on a square that's free but has an NPC or several in adjacent squares. Somehow their toes, sometimes not always (!), are calling dibs on the square that's free so you just wasted a Quick Tinker.
 

Zetor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
1,706
Location
Budapest, Hungary
My one LOS-related raeg moment was in the arena when fighting the Exorcist. After doing the usual opener, I set two doppelgangers on him, then placed a forcefield between us (and surrounding my character with a single opening on the other side) so that he'd need to spend at least two turns before he could attack me (and by that time my TK punch would be up again). Worked well, except he managed to somehow stand 1/4 of the way between the tile in front of the opening and the neighboring one, blocking my exit. He was getting LOS on me without issues, but I couldn't hit him with anything except AOEs (no matter where I tried to move). He still died easily, but it was kinda annoying.

Another fun issue with those weirdo grids is trying to lay a trap on a square that's free but has an NPC or several in adjacent squares. Somehow their toes, sometimes not always (!), are calling dibs on the square that's free so you just wasted a Quick Tinker.
You can prevent that by making sure that there are no bouncing red arrows above any nearby NPC heads when you plant the trap, though.

edit: also, I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, but the weird freemove/grid hybrid movement system gives a pretty big advantage to the player when it comes to trapping... if an enemy is caught in a trap adjacent to you, they won't be able to hit you in melee, but you can hit them as long as you have at least, like, ~10 MP. Traps will also end an enemy's turn when hit, even if they're immune to damage (doppelgangers). They will NOT stop spiders and immobilization-immune enemies, though.
 
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