Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Spark Mandriller]

It follows a straightforward pattern:

Except that chemical dispensers/collectors count as medical components. It took me like 200 hours before I realised that. Still not sure what the reasoning for that is, either.

 

[Gnidrologist]

How was that not obivous? In the barter screen of medical merchants it literally says that they buy chemical components and they also sell them.

 

[Black Angel]

Yeah, "chemical components" is on its own categories, completely separate from "medical components".

Spent more time playing this, I can confirm that trading is still a pile of shit in this game.

It follows a straightforward pattern: gun traders buy guns/ammo, chemists buy chemicals, doctors buy healing items/drugs, etc. You'll get a feel for it soon enough. Besides which, there's not much of a benefit to obsessively exhausting the merchants' buy lists past the very early game.

Pile of shit, indeed, just like Arcanum, amirite?

It amazes me just how ortucis went on to shit on Underrail's trading system, when the truth is UR's was mostly inspired by Arcanum's. In Arcanum, inventor shops would only accept certain crafting components at a time, blacksmiths would only accept certain weapons and armors at a time (even enchanted ones, if you're lucky), magick shops would accept magickal items like magic scrolls (and enchanted artifacts, occasionally), guns shops would only accept firearms (and guns part, sometimes), with junk dealers being the ones who would be more willing to buy most of your stuff, albeit at reduced price, and sometimes they won't accept some things like lava rocks and charcoals.
But in case of Underrail, its system is even better because the game literally listed what kind of items the merchants are looking for, and how much of it, so there was literally zero guesswork when trying to sell things to a merchant in Underrail.

The point of bartering being designed the way it is is that you don't end up hoarding huge amounts of money from looting every container in the game. It's the best way I've seen this problem solved in an RPG.

Exactly. This causes you to re-evaluate what you're carrying with you all the time, what's worth bringing back to your storage container (wherever that might be), or selling what you can and ditching the rest. It almost avoids that age-old terrible CRPG problem where you end up hording and having way too much money far too early in the game. "Almost" because you still end up filthy rich fairly early on if you're smart about managing your inventory. Either way, it ends up being a very fulfilling economy at the end of the day. It seems you always stumble on something you want to spring the big bucks for, leaving you wondering what the best course of action will be.

Makes me really excited to see how the Expedition expansion handles the economy as a whole. I'm sure it's been fully considered.

It causes you to dump loot at the feet of merchants, selling it bit by bit every time you happen to pass by them.

Still a step above most games though.

Sasuga, Agathoth-sama! Only a High Lord can sees right through a mortal scheme, and dealt with it accordingly.

 

[orcinator]

Still a step above most games though.

It's just an extra layer of tedium in a game that's already giving MMOs and mobile games a run for their money(even with the mandatory speedhacks).

 

[Black Angel]

It's just an extra layer of tedium in a game that's already giving MMOs and mobile games a run for their money(even with the mandatory speedhacks).

It's like that because your brain is on MMOs. Take MMOs out of your brain, stop taking literally everything that's not nailed to the floors and the walls, think in terms of value vs. weight to avoid encumbrance, and you will be fine. Hopefully.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

How was that not obivous? In the barter screen of medical merchants it literally says that they buy chemical components and they also sell them.

The category is named medical components. I thought it was just going to be stuff like syringes and ampules (which it is, it just includes dispensers too), not parts to make napalm guns. There's nothing medical about napalm guns. Also most doctors don't sell them either. Fixer does, but he also buys chemical pistols so I thought he was just the designated chemical pistol guy.

Yeah, "chemical components" is on its own categories, completely separate from "medical components".

No it's not. http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Medical_components

 

[Gnidrologist]

In any case you can always see what the merchant is buying by which items are highlighted in your inventory. I got a grasp of what certain types of merchants sell/buy in that way very quickly.

 

[Black Angel]

No it's not. http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Medical_components

Right, you were talking specifically about dispensers and collectors, and even the wiki page for each of them described them as medical components. In that case, it is strange.

Meanwhile, looking at the window listing components in this page http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Components suggested that only five items are listed as medical components, while dispensers and collectors counts as "Other weapon parts". Did you happen to sell dispensers and collectors to merchants asking for medical components?

 

[Spark Mandriller]

In any case you can always see what the merchant is buying by which items are highlighted in your inventory. I got a grasp of what certain types of merchants sell/buy in that way very quickly.

Yeah, that's how I eventually figured it out. It just took me a while since I usually didn't bother carrying them to doctors, since it didn't seem like they'd count.

Did you happen to sell dispensers and collectors to merchants asking for medical components?

Yes. They're the only people who will buy them. They won't buy chemical pistols, but they'll buy the parts to make them. It's strange.

 

[orcinator]

It's just an extra layer of tedium in a game that's already giving MMOs and mobile games a run for their money(even with the mandatory speedhacks).

It's like that because your brain is on MMOs. Take MMOs out of your brain, stop taking literally everything that's not nailed to the floors and the walls, think in terms of value vs. weight to avoid encumbrance, and you will be fine. Hopefully.

All Underrail does is make it take more time to grind for money if you choose to, you're already going to be waiting for certain traders to restock their inventory so you could get certain crafting parts anyway.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

so the expansion is still in alpha? or did it go too closed beta?

 

[Sykar]

It's just an extra layer of tedium in a game that's already giving MMOs and mobile games a run for their money(even with the mandatory speedhacks).

It's like that because your brain is on MMOs. Take MMOs out of your brain, stop taking literally everything that's not nailed to the floors and the walls, think in terms of value vs. weight to avoid encumbrance, and you will be fine. Hopefully.

All Underrail does is make it take more time to grind for money if you choose to, you're already going to be waiting for certain traders to restock their inventory so you could get certain crafting parts anyway.

It actively discourages grinding, but as usual there is no perfect system and autistic derptards will find a way to get too rich too fast and then complain that when they game the system it becomes to easy, as expected of fucktards.

 

[Black Angel]

Yes. They're the only people who will buy them. They won't buy chemical pistols, but they'll buy the parts to make them. It's strange.

Yeah, now that's really strange. epeli any idea why chemical weapon parts counts as medical components?

All Underrail does is make it take more time to grind for money if you choose to, you're already going to be waiting for certain traders to restock their inventory so you could get certain crafting parts anyway.

Again, this is because your brain is on MMOs. If you happen to want to craft certain equipment, but no components are available at traders, might as well go ahead tackling a quest or explore areas you haven't so that you might stumble upon them. Even if you don't find it, chance are upon restocks the item you're looking for will be at one of the traders, and you've got a lot of options because there are multiple settlements. Is there anything inherently wrong with this, or did you just want to have all the items immediately available all the time on top of being able to sell literally every shit with merchants being able to give you unlimited money?

 

[Wayward Son]

All Underrail does is make it take more time to grind for money if you choose to,

And it's the devs faults that you're engaging in degenerate behaviors because..?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Take all the skins, make leather armor out of it, scrap the armor, make repair kits. Someone is always buying repair kits.

 

[Tygrende]

so the expansion is still in alpha? or did it go too closed beta?

Closed alpha, which boils down to "It's almost™ done, a few people are playing through it to find bugs and give their insight".

any idea why chemical weapon parts counts as medical components?

I am guessing this is because chemical traders are actually pretty rare, Fixer and Octavia are the only ones that come to my mind and they both also double as pharmacists.

 

[orcinator]

Again, this is because your brain is on MMOs. If you happen to want to craft certain equipment, but no components are available at traders, might as well go ahead tackling a quest or explore areas you haven't so that you might stumble upon them. Even if you don't find it, chance are upon restocks the item you're looking for will be at one of the traders, and you've got a lot of options because there are multiple settlements. Is there anything inherently wrong with this, or did you just want to have all the items immediately available all the time on top of being able to sell literally every shit with merchants being able to give you unlimited money?

Please stop smelling your own farts because one game's time wasting mechanics are different than another's. The answer to time wasting mechanics isn't to ignore them because the game can get easy real fast (if you don't fuck up your build) but rather to not have them at all.
(especially when we're talking about a game that's unplayable without cheat engine)

It actively discourages grinding

You spend time and in return the game gives you more money to be spend on better gear/components. Frankly it encourages grinding more than it discourages it since crafted stuff is way better than found stuff and merchants have better crafting components than you can find.

And it's the devs faults that you're engaging in degenerate behaviorist because..?

The original argument was about Underrail's trading being better because you need to spend extra time to acquire lots of money compared to other games. Spoiler Alert: It's not unless you also consider that one other game that lets you pick up tons of mostly worthless clutter and haul it to a merchant as a "step above".

 

[Parabalus]

It's just an extra layer of tedium in a game that's already giving MMOs and mobile games a run for their money(even with the mandatory speedhacks).

It's like that because your brain is on MMOs. Take MMOs out of your brain, stop taking literally everything that's not nailed to the floors and the walls, think in terms of value vs. weight to avoid encumbrance, and you will be fine. Hopefully.

It's not about weight at all, that's retarded.

A single electronic item from mid-game on buy out the puny 500 coins merchants have, without even investing into mercantile. Those are the worst offenders, which is why joining Coretech is so attractive (and them being right next to the elevator, not 3 loading screens awy like JKK).

 

[Black Angel]

Please stop smelling your own farts because one game's time wasting mechanics are different than another's. The answer to time wasting mechanics isn't to ignore them because the game can get easy real fast (if you don't fuck up your build) but rather to not have them at all.
(especially when we're talking about a game that's unplayable without cheat engine)

That still sounds like your brain is still on MMOs, but okay.

The original argument was about Underrail's trading being better because you need to spend extra time to acquire lots of money compared to other games.

See, you're looking at it the wrong way. If merchants offer ALL items ALL the time, while you get to sell ALL items ALL the time, the fucking economy will broke, and if the devs let it this way, two kind of complains will emerge:

1. Maximum weight is getting in the way of bringing all the loot. Because merchants offer ALL items ALL the time, players can't get the all simply because they're being restricted by maximum weight.
2. The economy is broken. Because merchants are willing to buy ALL items ALL the time, players can simply go on a quest, looting literally everything that's not nailed to the floors and the walls, and gain infinite money before progressing even past early game

Underrail's system circumvent both this problem, simply by forcing players to NOT taking everything that's not nailed, thinking what kind of stuff they want to craft, only selling the most valuable items at the least weight, and loot accordingly.

Spoiler Alert: It's not unless you also consider that one other game that lets you pick up tons of mostly worthless clutter and haul it to a merchant as a "step above".

Huh? The fuck are you talking about here? If we're talking about a game that lets you pick up tons of mostly worthless clutter and haul it to a merchant as a 'step above', many games fit the bills. Fucking New Vegas fit the bills, and it encourage degenerate behaviorist by allowing you to sell literally everything at every merchant.

It's not about weight at all, that's retarded.

A single electronic item from mid-game on buy out the puny 500 coins merchants have, without even investing into mercantile. Those are the worst offenders, which is why joining Coretech is so attractive (and them being right next to the elevator, not 3 loading screens awy like JKK).

Weren't orcinator specifically talking about that? Maybe not actually about weight, but he/she/it's talking about the tedium of having to walk back and forth the merchants, so it's related to weight.

I agree that, when thinking in terms of value vs. weight, shit loads of items in Underrail can break the economy by allowing you to wipe out a merchants cash in a single trading session. orcinator, however, was complaining about how having to wait for restocks are is extra layer of tedium, when one could simply continuing on to progress the playthrough, instead of waiting around like a fucktard whose brain is on MMOs.

 

[Parabalus]

It's not about weight at all, that's retarded.

A single electronic item from mid-game on buy out the puny 500 coins merchants have, without even investing into mercantile. Those are the worst offenders, which is why joining Coretech is so attractive (and them being right next to the elevator, not 3 loading screens awy like JKK).

Weren't orcinator specifically talking about that? Maybe not actually about weight, but he/she/it's talking about the tedium of having to walk back and forth the merchants, so it's related to weight.

I agree that, when thinking in terms of value vs. weight, shit loads of items in Underrail can break the economy by allowing you to wipe out a merchants cash in a single trading session. orcinator, however, was complaining about how having to wait for restocks are is extra layer of tedium, when one could simply continuing on to progress the playthrough, instead of waiting around like a fucktard whose brain is on MMOs.

The money you need on some characters is insane though - on my fist run I needed several 150+ super steel plates for all the infused leather gear variations.

If you want to also equip the house (because you didn't know it's useless except for the workbenches) and the expansion jet ski (which will probably cost more than the house) you're looking at extremes.

Weight is never an issue, it's the merchant restock timers.

Underrail is heavily inspired by MMOs, dunno why you think the comparison is derogatory.

 

[Tygrende]

on my fist run I needed several 150+ super steel plates for all the infused leather gear variations.

Come on, you didn't need even a single 150+ plate. You just really wanted them. Personally I order 3 sets and just go with the best one I get, it's just a few %/points of DR/DT.

 

[Parabalus]

on my fist run I needed several 150+ super steel plates for all the infused leather gear variations.

Come on, you didn't need even a single 150+ plate. You just really wanted them. Personally I order 3 sets and just go with the best one I get, it's just a few %/points of DR/DT.

The scalings were nerfed/normalized, now I'd agree with you.

 

[Tygrende]

By the way, the future economy changes solve the "a single electronic item from mid-game on buy out the puny 500 coins merchants have" problem to a degree if you are playing on Hard/DOMINATING.

 

[Parabalus]

By the way, the future economy changes solve the "a single electronic item from mid-game on buy out the puny 500 coins merchants have" problem to a degree if you are playing on Hard/DOMINATING.

That'll just reduce the shit you dump at their feet, hopefully by enough.

How much does the jet ski cost in the alpha? More or less than the house?

 

[Black Angel]

Underrail is heavily inspired by MMOs, dunno why you think the comparison is derogatory.

Actually, I don't even see where the inspirations from MMOs came from, and that's what baffles me. Is it the cooldowns? The way the UIs is designed so that you can put 30-40 items, abilities, and spells on a shortcut? Some kill quests like having to kill 30 Rathounds? Is merchant restock timers even a thing in MMOs? I don't get it, is all.