Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[TwinkieGorilla]

Serious question, since all I'm trying to do is keep Yahota alive and not die myself, is Level 15 too early to be in the DLC? Because I'm pretty sure I accidentally fucking deleted my save from before I entered Black Isles.

 

[Lyre Mors]

Serious question, since all I'm trying to do is keep Yahota alive and not die myself, is Level 15 too early to be in the DLC? Because I'm pretty sure I accidentally fucking deleted my save from before I entered Black Isles.

Well, what difficulty are you playing on? Also, you're not locked into the expansion or anything just by initiating it. You can come and go to the Black Sea as you please as soon as you get a jetski.

 

[Tweed]

Well as I go along I can definitely say that shotguns are, complicated. I only managed to beat Carnifex after I tossed crawler poisoned caltrops on him and mowed him down with my crafted SMG, the shotgun just can't seem to do enough damage or penetration. I also have to say that trainshot hasn't been as awesome as it sounds, I've gotten the most use out of them on the bladelings.

 

[Jezal_k23]

Spoiler

That was close...

 

[Jezal_k23]

Btw Saban and Dan walked on my caltrops during the fight without turning on me. Why? Was this fixed?

 

[ItsChon]

Serious question, since all I'm trying to do is keep Yahota alive and not die myself, is Level 15 too early to be in the DLC? Because I'm pretty sure I accidentally fucking deleted my save from before I entered Black Isles.

I did the first camp assault at level 15 and it was not hard at all. Is that what you're talking about?

 

[Blaine]

Well as I go along I can definitely say that shotguns are, complicated. I only managed to beat Carnifex after I tossed crawler poisoned caltrops on him and mowed him down with my crafted SMG, the shotgun just can't seem to do enough damage or penetration. I also have to say that trainshot hasn't been as awesome as it sounds, I've gotten the most use out of them on the bladelings.

Non-expansion ranged weapons shake up something like this:

• Assault Rifle: Mow down bushels of enemies from point-blank to medium range; low focus penalty that can either be ignored or negated with one feat; no need for a backup weapon, this Chad of a firearm does it all
  
• SMG: Short to medium range, similar to ARs, but fires wimpier ammo and is more oriented toward shy and depressed virgin builds
  
• Sniper Rifle: Pretty much what one would expect from a sniper rifle; slow-firing, bad at short range, massive focus penalty; backup weapon practically required; enjoy being forced into point-blank scripted encounters
  
• Slug Pistol: The shitty weapon that sniper and AR builds are forced to use at the beginning of the game, last-ditch backup for sniper builds; feats were added focusing on pistols but let's be honest, no one "mains" them
  
• Energy/Chemical Pistols: You can't make one of these until Junkyard and the related feats are gimmicky as all Hell, but they're great fun and might make good backup for a sniper build; again though, no one "mains" these
  
• Crossbows: When you hate yourself but neither want to commit suicide nor stop playing Underrail, this is the go-to choice of weapon—the quietest, shyest, and most forgettable virgin of all

Anyway, game developers don't seem to know how shotguns actually work, and just copy what other game developers have been doing for several decades by theming them around stupidly short ranges, ludicrously huge cones of fire, and horrible penetration unless slugs are used, at which point they turn into shittier and more expensive high-caliber pistols.

Now, I haven't used shotguns in Underrail yet myself, but I ask those of you who have: Why use shotguns and not ARs? I have a strong feeling ARs are far more powerful at a much more versatile selection of ranges and against both soft and hard targets.

Seems to me a shotgun with a feat or two might be decent backup for a sniper build, but building around one?

 

[Urthor]

idk what you're talking about, you can main energy pistols pretty easily, it's not insanely good because well psi but it's good enough to finish the game with on not dominating pretty easily.

You max your crit chance, max crit chance some more, and then go stealth and shoot enemies standing in the light with ambush crits for a gajillion damage and probably the strongest alpha strike in the game because the crit multiplier is literally absurd on energy pistols. And then you still have aimed shot up your sleave as a 1hko on almost everything.

 

[Tacgnol]

Anyway, game developers don't seem to know how shotguns actually work, and just copy what other game developers have been doing for several decades by theming them around stupidly short ranges and horrible penetration unless slugs are used, at which point they turn into shittier and more expensive high-caliber pistols.

Video Game Shotgun Syndrome.

 

[Tigranes]

I don't main ARs in UR because they're boring - you just shoot wherever you are and move around and do whatever you want and you're fine.

To me Underrail's particular tortuous delight comes in meticulously setting up the battlefield for your particular build to shine, whether it's melee or snipering or ambush from dark or whatever, all the while knowing if the enemy can disrupt your ideal conditions you are fucked. AR always seemed to me to get rid of that complexity.

That said, up to level 10, shotguns haven't been terribly exciting so far. It's fun when you can blow away three rathound alphas with two shots, but it really seems to be a snowflake needing the right conditions for not insubstantial AP cost.

 

[Jezal_k23]

Shotguns sound unreliable. Sort of like how swords are unreliable. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm having fun with this build. It just really hangs you out to dry once you miss.

 

[ItsChon]

Spoiler

Does anyone know the persuasion level required to pass all the Captain Grimes skill checks? I'm like 5 oddity XP away from a level, so I'm tempted to just level, and then come back with some extra persuasion in my pocket.

 

[Wunderbar]

Anyway, game developers don't seem to know how shotguns actually work, and just copy what other game developers have been doing for several decades by theming them around stupidly short ranges, ludicrously huge cones of fire, and horrible penetration unless slugs are used, at which point they turn into shittier and more expensive high-caliber pistols.

true to real life shotgun is basically a shittier rifle.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

idk what you're talking about, you can main energy pistols pretty easily, it's not insanely good because well psi but it's good enough to finish the game with on not dominating pretty easily.

I found dominating pretty easy with them too. They're crazy strong once your build gets going.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Anyway, game developers don't seem to know how shotguns actually work, and just copy what other game developers have been doing for several decades by theming them around stupidly short ranges, ludicrously huge cones of fire, and horrible penetration unless slugs are used, at which point they turn into shittier and more expensive high-caliber pistols.

true to real life shotgun is basically a shittier rifle.

Shotguns are great for close quarters
In ww1 the Germans got so butthurt over the Winchester Model 97 they tried to get it banned

 

[Wunderbar]

Anyway, game developers don't seem to know how shotguns actually work, and just copy what other game developers have been doing for several decades by theming them around stupidly short ranges, ludicrously huge cones of fire, and horrible penetration unless slugs are used, at which point they turn into shittier and more expensive high-caliber pistols.

true to real life shotgun is basically a shittier rifle.

Shotguns are great for close quarters
In ww1 the Germans got so butthurt over the Winchester Model 97 they tried to get it banned

so it's basically a rifle with shittier stats but without short range penalty.

 

[MediantSamuel]

Btw Saban and Dan walked on my caltrops during the fight without turning on me. Why? Was this fixed?

I don't think so. I aggroed Gorsky & co on the Crawler's base assault with caltrops.

Maybe they had metal boots / safe step.

 

[Black Angel]

Btw Saban and Dan walked on my caltrops during the fight without turning on me. Why? Was this fixed?

It's in an uncontrolled zone. I'd assume you managed to throw those caltrops while out of their sight.

Spoiler

Does anyone know the persuasion level required to pass all the Captain Grimes skill checks? I'm like 5 oddity XP away from a level, so I'm tempted to just level, and then come back with some extra persuasion in my pocket.

Spoiler

I did it with effective 110+ Persuasion. 15 Will, 60 points invested into the skill + another 60 invested into Mercantile which probably helped through synergy.

 

[ItsChon]

Btw Saban and Dan walked on my caltrops during the fight without turning on me. Why? Was this fixed?

It's in an uncontrolled zone. I'd assume you managed to throw those caltrops while out of their sight.

Spoiler

Does anyone know the persuasion level required to pass all the Captain Grimes skill checks? I'm like 5 oddity XP away from a level, so I'm tempted to just level, and then come back with some extra persuasion in my pocket.

Spoiler

I did it with effective 110+ Persuasion. 15 Will, 60 points invested into the skill + another 60 invested into Mercantile which probably helped through synergy.

Spoiler

I've got about 70 effective atm. If I dump around 20 points into it, I'll get around 100 effective which will hopefully be enough. Do you actually get to walk around the pirate bases and such if you pass the persuasion checks?

 

[Black Angel]

Spoiler

I've got about 70 effective atm. If I dump around 20 points into it, I'll get around 100 effective which will hopefully be enough. Do you actually get to walk around the pirate bases and such if you pass the persuasion checks?

Spoiler

I haven't tried it. I only managed to secure a deal of only having myself and myself alone to traverse their waters safely, while paying some charons for each laborer (also unarmed) who come with me should I need some extra hands. fantadomat admitted he's unable to approach the Ports without getting shot at, I'd assume this happens if you don't offer your services to the pirates.

 

[Tygrende]

Anyway, game developers don't seem to know how shotguns actually work, and just copy what other game developers have been doing for several decades by theming them around stupidly short ranges, ludicrously huge cones of fire, and horrible penetration unless slugs are used, at which point they turn into shittier and more expensive high-caliber pistols.

I think they are well aware of how shotguns actually work, at least to a degree, it's just that most of the real life advantages and disadavantages of shotguns don't really translate very well into most video games, Underrail being one of them. The argueably greatest advantage shotguns have is the ability to hunt a wide variety of animals using different loads, from small game through birds in flight to big game. We don't hunt for meat in Underrail and there's no leather degradation based on the weapon used (and even if there was, hunting still wouldn't be a core mechanic), so that's out. The health system is not realistic enough to simulate shotgun's increased vital hit probability per shot, nor is combat fast paced enough (I'm talking a few seconds to end a fight, as is often the case in real life) for this to be a big factor. There's no door breaching either. Weapon ranges are far from realistic, so while shot shell pellets don't turn into marshmallows after a few yards/meters in real life, their effective range is in fact overwhelmingly shorter than that of a rifle, even with sabot slugs or rifled barrels. So really, the only meaningful design left is the usual "very powerful but short range" cliche. The shot shells are heavy as fuck in Underrail compared to other ammo types, so that's a plus from a realism perspective.

Now, I haven't used shotguns in Underrail yet myself, but I ask those of you who have: Why use shotguns and not ARs? I have a strong feeling ARs are far more powerful at a much more versatile selection of ranges and against both soft and hard targets.

It's been my concern from the the very moment shotguns were announced. But let's be honest, shotguns weren't added to fill any particular niches, all weapon available in the game before Expedition had them pretty much covered. They were added for the sheer cool factor and due to popular demand. At least they have a few cool feats that make them a little distinct, like ignoring most of enemy's evasion.

 

[ciox]

It's been my concern from the the very moment shotguns were announced. But let's be honest, shotguns weren't added to fill any particular niches, all weapon available in the game before Expedition had them pretty much covered.

This is how I kinda felt also, the new weapons don't quite hold up if you focus on them too exclusively, the base game both covers the biggest niches and has the most dependable weapons (gloves, SMGs, ARs)

At least they have a few cool feats that make them a little distinct, like ignoring most of enemy's evasion.

This is what should be emphasized the most to set shotguns apart from burst firearms, simulate the "multitude of pellets" aspect by making shotguns be less affected by things like evasion, disruptive fields, spatial projections, etc, the anti-evasion feat is a good start but I think that aspect could have been buffed more.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I did the first camp assault at level 15 and it was not hard at all. Is that what you're talking about?

No. I'm pretty sure I just said the second assault, didn't I?

EDIT: No matter what I do, if I'm keeping myself alive, Yahota dies. It's like five minutes into the battle there is such a massive swarm of enemies I can't imagine I could keep her alive at any level. Is it even possible??

 

[Tacgnol]

Anyway, game developers don't seem to know how shotguns actually work, and just copy what other game developers have been doing for several decades by theming them around stupidly short ranges, ludicrously huge cones of fire, and horrible penetration unless slugs are used, at which point they turn into shittier and more expensive high-caliber pistols.

true to real life shotgun is basically a shittier rifle.

Shotguns are great for close quarters
In ww1 the Germans got so butthurt over the Winchester Model 97 they tried to get it banned

so it's basically a rifle with shittier stats but without short range penalty.

Shotguns are generally considered to be very versatile weapons in real life though. They can fulfil multiple different roles by changing ammo.

Even buckshot has significantly higher range than usually shown in video games.

 

[Abu Antar]

The above statement is true. You'd know that if you've actually fired a shotgun in real life.