Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Blaine]

You can go full quad PSI, quad crafting, get all 3 social skills, and lockpicking/hacking/stealth.

Tranquility PSI is the strongest build in the game and trivializes DOMINATING, how PSI has escaped the nerfhammer is a mystery.

Psi didn't escape the nerfhammer, it's just that the nerfhammer wasn't strong enough to affect it much.

I agree: Stealth psi is by far the most powerful build in the game.

 

[Parabalus]

Basically with a full PSI build at no point must you use your brain, the solution is always obvious. If you have stealth it's even more ridiculous.

You mistake full PSI with assault rifle build. PSI is for sure one of the strongest builds, but especially 3 con Tranquility needs to execute well and does not allow for a lot of mistakes. Psychosis needs to balance HP well early on until you get all the necessary defensive feats and meds plus it struggles with the additional PSI cost until you find good mufflers for your band and get enough crafting for a decent PSI beetle vest. Both need to manage quite a few CDs as well as well as PSI which drains fast. Usually you are out of PSI after the first or second round even with PSI booster and your capabilities without PSI stink.
Meanwhile tin can assault rifle can yolo through the game by spamming burst.

After PSI boosters CDs were reduced to 3 turns and with the addition of TM and Hemopsychosis there is no more PSI management, even for Psychosis.

You'll be hard pressed to use a Cigar, Coffee or the new foods.

Endgame maybe, not early and mid game in tough fights against a lot of high HP enemies who can one shot you easily. Hemo is not really accessible until level 16 unless you like ditching it for LoC which I would advise against.

Level 16 is mid game. Endgame you'll have so much PSI Hemo is used very rarely.

Every character can be one-shot, though PSI has a much easier time because of mirror images.

You can go full quad PSI, quad crafting, get all 3 social skills, and lockpicking/hacking/stealth.

Tranquility PSI is the strongest build in the game and trivializes DOMINATING, how PSI has escaped the nerfhammer is a mystery.

Psi didn't escape the nerfhammer, it's just that the nerfhammer wasn't strong enough to affect it much.

I agree: Stealth psi is by far the most powerful build in the game.

It's stronger than at release, while other powerful builds were repeatedly nerfed (hi DEX).

Can't speak for <1.0.0.

Stealth is another panacea, so when you combine them it's ridiculous.

 

[hell bovine]

That is how most Sci Fi games handle PSI though. Stuff like Force Field, Bilocation, Destabilization, Emission or Proxy are rather uncommon in fantasy settings though. What is more, how the resource is handled is also somewhat differently, a small pool with fairly decent regeneration, while most fantasy games offer a high pool with relatively low regeneration.

Yep, which is why I call them mages. :D Even if it's a lovely shade of mauve instead of the usual blue, it's still a mana bar.

(Btw, DAO had the "corpse explodes" spell too.)

 

[Sykar]

Basically with a full PSI build at no point must you use your brain, the solution is always obvious. If you have stealth it's even more ridiculous.

You mistake full PSI with assault rifle build. PSI is for sure one of the strongest builds, but especially 3 con Tranquility needs to execute well and does not allow for a lot of mistakes. Psychosis needs to balance HP well early on until you get all the necessary defensive feats and meds plus it struggles with the additional PSI cost until you find good mufflers for your band and get enough crafting for a decent PSI beetle vest. Both need to manage quite a few CDs as well as well as PSI which drains fast. Usually you are out of PSI after the first or second round even with PSI booster and your capabilities without PSI stink.
Meanwhile tin can assault rifle can yolo through the game by spamming burst.

After PSI boosters CDs were reduced to 3 turns and with the addition of TM and Hemopsychosis there is no more PSI management, even for Psychosis.

You'll be hard pressed to use a Cigar, Coffee or the new foods.

Endgame maybe, not early and mid game in tough fights against a lot of high HP enemies who can one shot you easily. Hemo is not really accessible until level 16 unless you like ditching it for LoC which I would advise against.

Level 16 is mid game. Endgame you'll have so much PSI Hemo is used very rarely.

Every character can be one-shot, though PSI has a much easier time because of mirror images.

You can go full quad PSI, quad crafting, get all 3 social skills, and lockpicking/hacking/stealth.

Tranquility PSI is the strongest build in the game and trivializes DOMINATING, how PSI has escaped the nerfhammer is a mystery.

Psi didn't escape the nerfhammer, it's just that the nerfhammer wasn't strong enough to affect it much.

I agree: Stealth psi is by far the most powerful build in the game.

It's stronger than at release, while other powerful builds were repeatedly nerfed (hi DEX).

Can't speak for <1.0.0.

Mirror Image is useless against: Robots, AoE, PSI and burst fire eats it up like a fat kid eats candy in an unsupervised candy store. About PSI, hyperbole. Anything lasting longer than 3 turns will give you trouble with PSI, especially Psychosis. PSI is just good finishing fights before that, so maybe that is why you do not notice it that much.
Hemo is not just for PSI but also to manage your HP for Survival Instincts.

That is how most Sci Fi games handle PSI though. Stuff like Force Field, Bilocation, Destabilization, Emission or Proxy are rather uncommon in fantasy settings though. What is more, how the resource is handled is also somewhat differently, a small pool with fairly decent regeneration, while most fantasy games offer a high pool with relatively low regeneration.

Yep, which is why I call them mages. :D Even if it's a lovely shade of mauve instead of the usual blue, it's still a mana bar.

(Btw, DAO had the "corpse explodes" spell too.)

I am confused, which spell lets you explode corpses? Destabilzation does not work on corpses.

 

[Sheepherder]

Endgame maybe, not early and mid game in tough fights against a lot of high HP enemies who can one shot you easily. Hemo is not really accessible until level 16 unless you like ditching it for LoC which I would advise against.

nah, on dominating psychosis+survival stops having issues with psy cost at ~level 4. lvl to 4 and pick force user, get a psy bug carpace before you rescue Newton, kill the 3 bandits from Quicksilver quest, kill the lurkers from the underpassages, get their loot and sell it, craft any psy tac vest, buy any fire/ice headband. boom, you're done. 50% crit chance and -10% cost reduction. psychosis saves mana by doing more damage in a single hit than tranquility does in 3. I mean, i'll still use psy boosters, but way less than I would with tranquility. And level 6 is premeditation = door cheese, level 8 is crits on demand.

 

[Parabalus]

Mirror Image does nothing against: PSI, AoE and burst fire eats it up like a fat kid eats candy in an unsupervised candy store. Robots are essentially ignoring it. No idea what you mean with the idea that you will have so much PSI that you will use it rarely is a massive hyperbole. Even endgame unless you finish every fight in two rounds you will run into rounds where you have to wait a round or two until PSI Booster is off CD.

It really doesn't happen anymore. I played at release, and then, yes, quite often I'd have to hide until booster CD came back.

With the expansion and so many new goodies it just doesn't happen. I didn't have to use a single accelerator or a PSI food yet, and I'm playing Psychosis. The biggest culprit is LTI + the PSI booster CD nerf, the spirit potions help.

MI trivializes stalkers and snipers, you have other solutions for PSI (LoC) or AoE. It's still something others don't get.

If I were doing a PSI build now, I'd probably go full tin can, since the 10% cost reduction from psi beetle carapace is superfluous now.

 

[Sykar]

Endgame maybe, not early and mid game in tough fights against a lot of high HP enemies who can one shot you easily. Hemo is not really accessible until level 16 unless you like ditching it for LoC which I would advise against.

nah, on dominating psychosis+survival stops having issues with psy cost at ~level 4. lvl to 4 and pick force user, get a psy bug carpace before you rescue Newton, kill the 3 bandits from Quicksilver quest, kill the lurkers from the underpassages, get their loot and sell it, craft any psy tac vest, buy any fire/ice headband. boom, you're done. 50% crit chance and -10% cost reduction. psychosis saves mana by doing more damage in a single hit than tranquility does in 3. I mean, i'll still use psy boosters, but way less than I would with tranquility. And level 6 is premeditation = door cheese, level 8 is crits on demand.

No.

 

[fantadomat]

You can get everything as PSI. With high INT + benches + Hypercerebrix you can craft q160 stuff with 80-90 skill points, the social skills you can leave at 40ish thanks to 19 WILL and still hit every check.

As Tranq, use a regen vest to top yourself off at the start of the turn. As PSI you also have mirror images, which with max TC blocks 10+ attacks.

Spoiler

Meant the "endboss", aka the shadowlith at the Abyssal station. I inspected the shard twice, second time it turned into the torch. It's the same thing as if you just showed it to Azif.

Adding even more power to PSI through the use of non-combat stuff is bonkers when he repeatetedly nerfs non-PSI stuff.

^What Sykar said. Sure, you get to curbstomp easily by the time all the skills investments are in place, all the feats are taken and all the gears are crafted, but it takes time to get there. Meanwhile.... you can already just shoot and burst at every thing that moves even by Depot A using AR builds.

Anyway,

Spoiler

there's ANOTHER piece of Grey Rock, right? Is that from Abyssal Station Zero or is there another opportunity to get it? Because if it's the former, well I'm fucked unless I can return there via submarine.

Ahhh i decided to not even bother with stupidity,you have to waste an hour do that shit,forget it,i experienced most of the dlc and it is time for greener pastures.

Spoiler

Parabalus haven't told you yet, but you need to pay attention to the lighting in the whole grave chambers. The spirits will only come out once the lights are out, i.e if you lollygag too much in there they'll start to appear. No need to sneak while in there, because as mentioned the spirits only appears once the lights are out.

I don't really mind the graves being randomized, but yeah, the crank being either just lying around or being already in one of the hoist is just too much.

Don't know about any lights,the fucker just comes out in the first few seconds of every screen. It hits you for 4-6 rounds and disappears,after 30-60 seconds comes back.

 

[Parabalus]

So shotguns seem pretty good as a backup weapon for a sniper/trapper, although there isn't much feat synergy outside of like gun nut and opportunist.

Has anyone tried swords/parry with riot armor + shield? Wonder if that might be more effective/efficient than trying to dodge tank.

I'm thinking about a sword build, and I'm not sure whether a riot would be worth it, you miss out on infused leather bonuses. With max DEX you get 2/3 chance to block with parry already.

My main question is whether you could end your turn with https://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Captain's_Cutlass to benefit from the increased stacks, then swap to your other weapon to use them.

 

[Sykar]

Mirror Image does nothing against: PSI, AoE and burst fire eats it up like a fat kid eats candy in an unsupervised candy store. Robots are essentially ignoring it. No idea what you mean with the idea that you will have so much PSI that you will use it rarely is a massive hyperbole. Even endgame unless you finish every fight in two rounds you will run into rounds where you have to wait a round or two until PSI Booster is off CD.

It really doesn't happen anymore. I played at release, and then, yes, quite often I'd have to hide until booster CD came back.

With the expansion and so many new goodies it just doesn't happen. I didn't have to use a single accelerator or a PSI food yet, and I'm playing Psychosis. The biggest culprit is LTI + the PSI booster CD nerf, the spirit potions help.

MI trivializes stalkers and snipers, you have other solutions for PSI (LoC) or AoE. It's still something others don't get.

If I were doing a PSI build now, I'd probably go full tin can, since the 10% cost reduction from psi beetle carapace is superfluous now.

The only new goodie is the ability to reduce CD by 1 which costs 35 PSI baseline, probably around 28 with early game mufflers and carapace. So you trade 1 CD for about 30% of what you would have gained from the PSI booster effectively. Yeah keep telling me the who plays a pure Tranqulility TM Distortion cave wizard since Expansion came out and who has tried out all manners of stuff that PSI is "never a problem".

 

[Parabalus]

Mirror Image does nothing against: PSI, AoE and burst fire eats it up like a fat kid eats candy in an unsupervised candy store. Robots are essentially ignoring it. No idea what you mean with the idea that you will have so much PSI that you will use it rarely is a massive hyperbole. Even endgame unless you finish every fight in two rounds you will run into rounds where you have to wait a round or two until PSI Booster is off CD.

It really doesn't happen anymore. I played at release, and then, yes, quite often I'd have to hide until booster CD came back.

With the expansion and so many new goodies it just doesn't happen. I didn't have to use a single accelerator or a PSI food yet, and I'm playing Psychosis. The biggest culprit is LTI + the PSI booster CD nerf, the spirit potions help.

MI trivializes stalkers and snipers, you have other solutions for PSI (LoC) or AoE. It's still something others don't get.

If I were doing a PSI build now, I'd probably go full tin can, since the 10% cost reduction from psi beetle carapace is superfluous now.

The only new goodie is the ability to reduce CD by 1 which costs 35 PSI baseline, probably around 28 with early game mufflers and carapace. So you trade 1 CD for about 30% of what you would have gained from the PSI booster effectively. Yeah keep telling me the who plays a pure Tranqulility TM Distortion wizard since Expansion came out and who has tried out all manners of stuff that PSI is "never a problem".

LTI also reduces premeditation CD which helps a lot.

There are also new wizard staves, foods, feats and meds.

It might be that TM Distortion lacks killing power, you're using it exclusively?
I only used it vs turrets, nagas and bladelings.

I understand that it could be worse for Tranquility now, since you have much more AP (-5 flat reduction to base of 70 AP), but you might just have to use some soup or accelerators.

It's much easier to manage than at 1.0, can you agree with that?
The halving of PSI booster CD by itself is huge.

 

[Blaine]

Night vision only counteracts the darkness penalty to accuracy, and doesn't aid in detection.

Wrong, NV helps in detection, that's for sure.

No, YOU'RE wrong. I just checked in-game, and your Detection score on the combat stats page doesn't change a bit when NVG is switched on. Furthermore, it has no effect on the rate at which traps are detected, because I tested it in front of an undetected trap with a quicksave nearby and there was no discernible difference between NVG on or off.

It's stronger than at release, while other powerful builds were repeatedly nerfed (hi DEX).

Is it? I played my psi guy over three years ago, so if they're even stronger now, that's ridiculous.

High DEX shy virgin build was the last thing that needed to be nerfed, seriously what the fuck?

 

[hell bovine]

That is how most Sci Fi games handle PSI though. Stuff like Force Field, Bilocation, Destabilization, Emission or Proxy are rather uncommon in fantasy settings though. What is more, how the resource is handled is also somewhat differently, a small pool with fairly decent regeneration, while most fantasy games offer a high pool with relatively low regeneration.

Yep, which is why I call them mages. :D Even if it's a lovely shade of mauve instead of the usual blue, it's still a mana bar.

(Btw, DAO had the "corpse explodes" spell too.)

I am confused, which spell lets you explode corpses? Destabilzation does not work on corpses.

Walking bomb: if the target is destroyed while under the effect, it goes boom. 'Corpse explosion' was just how I called it.

 

[Black Angel]

Spoiler

I'm quite sure you can go back there via submarine, makes sense since if you get the torch later on you shouldn't be locked out.
What's Grey Rock?

Spoiler

Guess there's only one way to find out.

Grey Rock is an object that you can interact with after properly destroying the Black Rock, the one you 'open' to get Shadow Dust oddity.

I'm not talking about whether a game has wizards and calls them "wizards" (Geneforge calls them shapers), but whether magic is just about adding new spells to your spellbook, or there is something more to it. At the end of the day, the psi abilities in Underrail are very similar to standard fantasy spells: there is ice bolt, fireball, chain lightning, fear, confusion, and now also the quivalent of slow & haste thanks to temporal.

Yep, which is why I call them mages. :D Even if it's a lovely shade of mauve instead of the usual blue, it's still a mana bar.

(Btw, DAO had the "corpse explodes" spell too.)

That's fine, but my point still stands. You can be reductive of how Underrail handles its' "magic" all you want, but magic is still straightforward fantasy-based in Arcanum. The only reason why anybody wouldn't really see it that way is because of the presence of steampunk-based technology and its relationship with magic.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

No, YOU'RE wrong. I just checked in-game, and your Detection score on the combat stats page doesn't change a bit when NVG is switched on.

Well, it wouldn't change your stats even if it was working. It's not like your stealth stat goes up or down depending on whether you're in the shadows or not. I haven't tested it so I don't know if it helps or not though. I assumed it helps since it'd be pretty weird if it didn't.

 

[Tygrende]

No, YOU'RE wrong. I just checked in-game, and your Detection score on the combat stats page doesn't change a bit when NVG is switched on.

Of course your detection stat wouldn't change, as all NV does is nullify light penalties. Which does assist in detecting creatures.

Furthermore, it has no effect on the rate at which traps are detected, because I tested it in front of an undetected trap with a quicksave nearby and there was no discernible difference between NVG on or off.

It might not work when detecting traps, but it does help with detecting creatures. Similarly, enemies have a much easier time detecting the player if he's in a brightly lit area or if they have night vision themselves.

 

[Black Angel]

Parabalus

Spoiler

I did it. I went back to Abyssal Zero Station, had an epic battle against the Shadowlith and its minions. All hail the Mighty Torch!

Tbh, I was kinda looking forward to an epic showdown with the Flottsormir itself. I guess it would be boring if it's some 'ancient evil awakening and we must stop it!' trope, but since all hints points to Flottsormir being very real, might as well have a final battle against it to wrap the DLC. Doesn't even need the expedition to end after it, let us return anytime we want after delivering/taking the Acorn and face the Flottsormir. Such a cocktease of only having Flottsormir allegedly being very close to us when we're in the submarine and got a lot of disturbance and some snake hissing in the background ambience.

Also, just going to put my tinfoil hat on and throw this out there

you've been warned

the Monolith at the Jaws (the entrance to the Black Sea) is the spear thingy that the Godmen hurl from across the galaxy to kill Leviathans, of which Flottsormir is one of them.

 

[Candide]

I'm a bit lost at the Expedition

Spoiler

I've gotten the Acorn cube and when I report it to Oldfied the expedition ends (whether I give it to him or not). I haven't done anything with the natives besides killing them during invasions. How does one progress there? And do I need to cull the pirates?

 

[hell bovine]

Yep, which is why I call them mages. :D Even if it's a lovely shade of mauve instead of the usual blue, it's still a mana bar.

(Btw, DAO had the "corpse explodes" spell too.)

That's fine, but my point still stands. You can be reductive of how Underrail handles its' "magic" all you want, but magic is still straightforward fantasy-based in Arcanum. The only reason why anybody wouldn't really see it that way is because of the presence of steampunk-based technology and its relationship with magic.

And at the same time, the mere presence of technology and pseudoscientific talk isn't enough for me in Underrail to view psi as "not magic". Not when cave wizards use their magicka psi bars to fling fireballs pyrokinesis around. I've enjoyed playing a psi in UR, but it was like playing a wizard (well ok, a sorcerer). Because even the presence of sorcerers in DnD could be explained by genetics; you get to be a sorcerer if you have an 'exotic bloodline', which is polite speech for 'grandma banged a dragon'.

 

[Black Angel]

I'm a bit lost at the Expedition

Spoiler

I've gotten the Acorn cube and when I report it to Oldfied the expedition ends (whether I give it to him or not). I haven't done anything with the natives besides killing them during invasions. How does one progress there? And do I need to cull the pirates?

Spoiler

That should be it. It marks the end of getting anymore quests from the Black Sea itself and the faction you sided with, which in this case the expedition team. There's really nothing that would appear on your quest journal anymore. However, you're free to do as you please. As far as we're concerned, the rest of the Black Sea is still open, even the Abyssal Station Zero. Prior to returning down there, I committed genocide towards the natives and took as many oddities there is.

 

[Candide]

Spoiler

That should be it. It marks the end of getting anymore quests from the Black Sea itself and the faction you sided with, which in this case the expedition team. There's really nothing that would appear on your quest journal anymore. However, you're free to do as you please. As far as we're concerned, the rest of the Black Sea is still open, even the Abyssal Station Zero. Prior to returning down there, I committed genocide towards the natives and took as many oddities there is.

Spoiler

Ok so what's this talk about natives' cemetary etc? When does the faction allegiance fork happen? I wasn't aware I can be aligned with someone else besides the expedition team.

 

[Sheepherder]

Endgame maybe, not early and mid game in tough fights against a lot of high HP enemies who can one shot you easily. Hemo is not really accessible until level 16 unless you like ditching it for LoC which I would advise against.

nah, on dominating psychosis+survival stops having issues with psy cost at ~level 4. lvl to 4 and pick force user, get a psy bug carpace before you rescue Newton, kill the 3 bandits from Quicksilver quest, kill the lurkers from the underpassages, get their loot and sell it, craft any psy tac vest, buy any fire/ice headband. boom, you're done. 50% crit chance and -10% cost reduction. psychosis saves mana by doing more damage in a single hit than tranquility does in 3. I mean, i'll still use psy boosters, but way less than I would with tranquility. And level 6 is premeditation = door cheese, level 8 is crits on demand.

No.

have you even played a psychosis wizard?

 

[Black Angel]

Spoiler

That should be it. It marks the end of getting anymore quests from the Black Sea itself and the faction you sided with, which in this case the expedition team. There's really nothing that would appear on your quest journal anymore. However, you're free to do as you please. As far as we're concerned, the rest of the Black Sea is still open, even the Abyssal Station Zero. Prior to returning down there, I committed genocide towards the natives and took as many oddities there is.

Spoiler

Ok so what's this talk about natives' cemetary etc? When does the faction allegiance fork happen? I wasn't aware I can be aligned with someone else besides the expedition team.

Spoiler

This talk about natives graveyard came about when one paid attention to the dialog with the Ferryman and with a certain, non-immediately hostile native. If you haven't talked to the Ferryman or asked about his encounter with the natives, I suggest you do so and start connecting the dots by yourself. Explore certain parts of northwestern region of the Black Sea and you'll stumble upon that certain native. You'd need good Persuasion and Intelligence, though.

The allegiance fork should happen when Professor Oldfield is kidnapped and you have a chance to negotiate with the pirates. Allegedly, you should be able to join them at that point.

 

[Parabalus]

Sykar

I just checked and Temporal Distortion costs 4 PSI points on my Psychosis character, on Tranquility that would be even lower.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Okay - restarted with a spear build. After I saved Newton I went to junktown and got riot gear recipe and made riot gear with shield + iron grip.

This is fucking ridiculous. You block most attacks. It fucking rules.