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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,508
I'm going to reroll as a full psi user, with stealth. All the talk about armor being Superior to dodge/evasion got me curious though, but won't a heavy armor fuck my stealth? I'd like to be able to avoid crabs and locusts, if possible.

As full PSI you will likely have 3 STR, so the heaviest you can go is a tactical vest, which is more than good enough, with possibly a backup leather for stealthing.

You simply kill and CC stuff so it doesn't hit you, especially melees.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,814
This is the most trash encounter design I've encountered since Deep Roads ...

:what:

That was the most blistering review I've read so far. Damn dude, that's heavy.

There are many issues with the expansion:

1) I felt victim to the Controlled Zone mechanic. Basically at the beginning of the expansion after a certain event I was looking for a pirate's squad. Without knowing I've entered an area close to Citadel of Life, I saw pirates, I DIDN'T ATTACK and I left. On return 20 hours later I cannot enter that area without all pirates aggro-ing on my position. Yeah, it doesn't matter that I have permission to travel their areas or that I did not kill any of them. I'm safe as long as I don't enter that particular area.

2) I've went through 4 assaults of natives on my base cause I did not know about the mines. The thing is: the safety of the expedition went from excellent to worse even when I did most of the killing and I did not lose one single Aegis soldier to the natives. Rubbish encounter design which requires you to go get the mines asap. Not to mention that the NPCs AI is braindead.

3) Junkyard was an outstanding and brilliant way to introduce a new mob: the mutants and their dogs. None of the expansion's locations are as memorable as Depot A, in fact they are mostly similar/copy-pasted structures filled with the same mobs. However we are not speaking about one, two or three locations, we are speaking of 6 similar locations! Yeah, I cannot wait to explore them all. No to mention that there are places were the cameras see you through the walls.

Edit: I just realized that they have to be 6 locations and 6 corporations because Six is the answer. Lame joke.

4) I play on Hard but the amount of enemies in encounters is simply unreasonable. I kill 3/2 enemies each round and I do crowd control with grenades however one wrong step and I'm surrounded by 3 crabs with a deathwish. Ok, this doesn't sounds so bad but why they pop-up even when you go stealth!? There is no excuse for such a design decision. Forcing the player to play your content in a certain way (*combat*) is a big No-No.

5) It's no fun! I cannot complain about backtracking as in Deep Caverns but the situation is not much better: the design is so retarded that you are forced to slog through each locations. If you stealth then you get fucked because at some point the enemies will trigger anyway. That's why my solution was to kill every Stone mob on the levels. I cannot imagine playing the expansion with a melee character. It's not challenging, it's tedious.

6) The combat. I did not want to open the discussion but it's bad because the RNG is retarded. I'm level 24 with max Perception, max Guns and lvl 70 Rapid Spearhead. However each time I start combat it's a complete shit show: sometimes Snipe works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes Aimed Shot works, sometimes it doesn't. You cannot count on the percentage displayed by the game: 70%+ hit chance are missed shots. For example do a test: reload the same savegame and start combat. Some times you will hit 3 criticals and other times you will have 3 misses in a row. No joke. RNG makes the difference between these opposites. It should not work like this and the RNG should be toned down considering that I have a weapon with low damage spread.

7) What is the purpose of this expansion? Mindless slaughter of retarded enemies!? Huge lore dumps about Lemurians!? Here is one idea: the vanilla game was in need of some polishing (badly) therefore why don't you spend some effort on that part!? Fix Drones vs Protectorate quest, fix Gorsky's quest, tone down Deep Caverns retardiness, expand Camp Hathor/Lower Underrail in an organic way, add 2-3 secret facilities with personality, add intelligent quests and so on. Underrail has one thing going for it: the combat mechanics are excellent however you cannot base your entire franchise on combat. Yeah, they decided to double down on combat but this doesn't mean the expansion or their future titles will be good. It just shows that the game designer is unwilling to learn from his mistake and it's unwilling to go out of his comfort zone. Do some detective quests for fuck sake. Just do anything not related to combat. And don't get me started on that musical puzzle.

Edit:
8) The expansion setting and the Pirates faction in particular doesn't make sense what so ever. What ships are they actually plundering? The ships of the natives!? I'm not sure the great designer put a lot of thought in the rationale of their existence. This is the same type of thinking that added jetpacks to Elex because ... it's cool.

I love Underrail and I have 350+ hours put into it however I don't like the direction it has taken. I was excited for this expansion. Now, I need 1-2 days to recover.
 
Last edited:

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,387
expand Camp Hathor/Lower Underrail in an organic way,
Arguably this has already been done with the waterways and the Hathor hunting grounds which you can access via jetski and see where the campers actually go to hunt animals, other than that not a whole lot to disagree with I guess.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,387
I've barely scratched the surface of the expansion, but these locust hives and strongmen are already getting under my skin. Being a crossbowman sucks.

Can scarcely imagine doing that shit without a String Lord style build with Expose Weakness and Implosion to prop up the crossbows, NOT GONNA LIE.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
14,196
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I did the first two arena fights. That was fun! I can't wait to see what more challenging fights will be like.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,814
Well at least you guys are ranged, my melee character getting killed in two turns, because apparently locusts can pierce armor from FUCKING SUPER STEEL and take out my shield in one turn.

If I ever start playing again then I will go full Psi + 10 Constitution and I will kill everything on sight.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,508
If I ever start playing again then I will go full Psi + 10 Constitution and I will kill everything on sight.
Something tells me that even psi character will feel like shit, because how fucking fast these guys breed and they doing this even out of combat.

I played through with the above on DOMINATING and it was still monotone. You get 20+ enemies aggroed in the villages and spider bases, which would be fine on its own, but you have to clear 3-4 identical areas for every quest.

It drags you down.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,508
give me a good psi build

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AQMDAwkDCgkAAAAAAAAADw8AAAAAAAAADw8PDw8ADytQYt-_

Plows through DOMINATING, can get every content skill if you want to minmax.
Is survival instincts actually good? Do you mostly fight at sub 30% HP?

Very good sub lvl15, afterwards I just ran with regen vest coz shit in expedition has hard to avoid damage and you are op anyway.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
give me a good psi build

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AQMDAwkDCgkAAAAAAAAADw8AAAAAAAAADw8PDw8ADytQYt-_

Plows through DOMINATING, can get every content skill if you want to minmax.
Is survival instincts actually good? Do you mostly fight at sub 30% HP?

Very good sub lvl15, afterwards I just ran with regen vest coz shit in expedition has hard to avoid damage and you are op anyway.
How do you deal with having shit carrying capacity? I'm a packrat.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,508
give me a good psi build

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AQMDAwkDCgkAAAAAAAAADw8AAAAAAAAADw8PDw8ADytQYt-_

Plows through DOMINATING, can get every content skill if you want to minmax.
Is survival instincts actually good? Do you mostly fight at sub 30% HP?

Very good sub lvl15, afterwards I just ran with regen vest coz shit in expedition has hard to avoid damage and you are op anyway.
How do you deal with having shit carrying capacity? I'm a packrat.

+60 from lifting belt and pig leather boots. I usually took pack rat feat but with the lifting belt change did not miss it.

If you do not like SI might be interesting to take STR to 8 or 9 so you can run with metal armor, with the expansion psi beetle armor is not as needed since you have too much psi points anyway.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,387
I haven't entered Expedition yet and after reading your reviews, I don't even want to.
:negative:

Just join the expedition then immediately pivot to doing pirate raids and sticking to the waterways of Lower Underrail.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,387
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If you join the pirates, do you not get to investigate the Leumerian facilities? You should still be able to right?
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
Well at least you guys are ranged, my melee character getting killed in two turns, because apparently locusts can pierce armor from FUCKING SUPER STEEL and take out my shield in one turn.

If I ever start playing again then I will go full Psi + 10 Constitution and I will kill everything on sight.
I wonder whether that would be the quickest way to dispose of large mobs. What about tin can & rifle, but with temporal magic added to the mix? Haste spell makes moving in heavy armor quite easy.
edit: Or electroshock & laser gunner with temporal magic? It's like the devs are trying to give everyone a hint. Temporal, temporal, temporal. :lol:

Mind you, I haven't played through the expedition yet; only took a sneak peek and witnessed the amazing ai during the beach defense. (I hope the nice sniper lady you meet in the beginning isn't necessary to progress the quest, because she's dead.)
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
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Messages
1,874,786
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
toro has one excellent point (and maybe others, but this is the one I wish to comment on), and that is the inconsistency of which actions will and won't de-stealth you.

I can recharge electronic devices stealthily, but I can't inject myself with drugs stealthily. That makes absolutely no sense at all.

I can manually open a set of solid steel doors stealthily, but I can't reach out and press a tiny button on The Rig stealthily. That is full-blown retarded.

Styg seriously needs to do a "consistency pass" next. If being consistent breaks something, then change that thing so that it works with the newly-implemented consistent rules and principles.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Yahota isn't necessary.

I played a spearman through most of the expansion pack before calling it quits, because it was fucking pointless. Crabs crabs crabs statues statues statues. It's not hard, you just rinse and repeat like an MMO. A sniper got through it faster, but not any more interesting. I'd imagine PSI or tin can AR will do it even faster like it does for everything else.

Regarding the stealth consistency - there's a nice moment in one of the ruins where you carefully stealth past turrets and cameras and everything, get yourself into the security room, access the computer to lift the lockdown.... except typing on a computer de-stealthes you, and now the stone statues see you through the glass and you're in combat. It doesn't fuck you up, but it's just another one of those things.

Going off toro's points, I think the big worry for me is that Styg is one of our greatest hopes for good RPGs, and I hope he takes the right lessons from spending 4 years on this thing. You can't always slam dunk and Underrail was so good that we hold him to high expectations, but I think most of all we don't want to see him drift off into thinking the expansion content is where his future games have to go. Please, no. Underrail wasn't perfect but it was god damn good. Expeditions is not.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
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Messages
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Nonsense. Jet skis alone were worth the price of admission. I thought they'd be so-so, but instead they're great. :love:

Throw in stuff like The Dude's new content and the conversations between Chad Ladelman and Virgin What's-His-Name, and I call that worth $10.

One of the issues here, I think, is that the only way to match the core game's combat content would be to do more of the same. Making something that feels and plays differently, and also is challenging in a different way, is a tough task.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,387
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Nonsense. Jet skis alone were worth the price of admission. I thought they'd be so-so, but instead they're great. :love:

Throw in stuff like The Dude's new content and the conversations between Chad Ladelman and Virgin What's-His-Name, and I call that worth $10.

One of the issues here, I think, is that the only way to match the core game's combat content would be to do more of the same. Making something that feels and plays differently, and also is challenging in a different way, is a tough task.
The way around this is to focus on interesting encounters and levels. I feel like if the enemies in the Leumerian facilities were as varied and interesting as the natives for example, things would have been better; and I also think we could have done a little bit more "scripted encounters", if you know what I'm saying? Like quests that lead to specific combat encounters, which differentiate from normal fights agaisnt enemies due to an interesting mechanic, setting, or whatever that was introduced.
 

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