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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Sheepherder

Augur
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
657
Well, since my savegame is gone, and I don't want to go through the Throwing Knives pain again, what's a general 'strong' Dominating build?
Nothing specific, just an idea like "Chemical Pistols" or "Hammer Wizard" is enough.
Anything where I am not relying on visiting all the merchants every hour to get more grenade materials would be fine.
Psychosis psi is still the No. 1 build.
Crit ARs are the most powerful ranged weapons. Up to 4 bursts per turn, 100% crit chance, an "Increase damage taken" multiplier, absurd damage. Combat ends on the alpha strike turn. Crit burst shotties are a close second.
Crit swords are the most powerful melee weapons. Struggle with high DR/DT robots, but not as much as other melee. Max DEX knives overtake them at the veeeery endgame because missed flurries can fuck up the damage output of swords, but they're better for the most part of the game.
How'd you get 100% crit chance on an AR build? Even on a pistol build it's a huge pain, and you have Steadfast Aim there.
Assuming hornet frame.
5% base + 7% recklessness + 30% Survival Instincts + 15% Focus Stim + 5% Hardcore Chips + 7% Scrutinous + 10% Infused Rathoud Leather Armor + 20% Seeker goggles = 99%
Infused rat can get to 11% with save scumming, but 10% is easy. 20% seeker goggles need 164q, unlikely to get that, so let's say +18% realistically.
So 100% if lucky, 97% normally.
Also Body Horror +3% against humans.
 

Sheepherder

Augur
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
657
20% seeker goggles need 164q, unlikely to get that,
I farmed 167q seeker lenses from Oculus trader, they still give 19% chance.

Also, you can always spec Recklessness for missing percents.
Might be +19% then. But the Oculus trader goes up to 164q. Only Hanna from Institute goes up to 169q.
And don't spec into recklessness. It's a shit spec and waste of spec points, with how easy it is to stack crit chance.
 

Sheepherder

Augur
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
657
In the case of ARs, SI is easy to get for a glass cannon. Even without SI, Recklessness spec is still trash.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,493
01008F0BFECAFB62C103ABCFD0034781376BB568

Yeah, you need 170q+ for 20% apparently.
 

Sheepherder

Augur
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
657
Yes and for e. pistols the damage increase from CP spec is better than a couple of crit chance percent.
Yeah, five specc points to turn Critical Power to its pre-nerf state. But it was good enough even with nerfed CP
And speccing into it is still far better than recklessness. At 160q, 10 points in CP nets 220% critical damage. Even more if you have Sharpshooter.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,574
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
And speccing into it is still far better than recklessness. At 160q, 10 points in CP nets 220% critical damage. Even more if you have Sharpshooter.
Man, amplified energy pistols already have >300% critical damage bonuses, add >+60% from smart modules, that's how much with CP? 800% critical damage bonus? More than enough. True for other weapons, though.
 

Sheepherder

Augur
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
657
And speccing into it is still far better than recklessness. At 160q, 10 points in CP nets 220% critical damage. Even more if you have Sharpshooter.
Man, amplified energy pistols already have >300% critical damage bonuses, add >+60% from smart modules, that's how much with CP? 800% critical damage bonus? More than enough. True for other weapons, though.
No it's not. At 160q a laser pistol with Practical Physicist has 320% (350% with Sharpshooter) crit damage. With CP it's 440% (500%). With specced CP it's 660% (750%). So the difference is 220% (250%) critical damage and even more so for plasma. Speccing CP is the best thing to do for high critical damage weapons, even after the nerf. Recklessness spec is never worth it because there's always better things to spec into.
Also, smart modules add bonus damage to Special Attacks, not critical damage.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,493
Ol' Willy eh, that's nothing compare to this I've posted earlier. Probably have found seeker lens there as well or somewhere nearby in DC, I mean, where else? Unfortunately, getting this lucky doesn't matter much unless you going into DC unprepared.
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
At 160q a laser pistol with Practical Physicist has 320% (350% with Sharpshooter) crit damage. With CP it's 440% (500%). With specced CP it's 660% (750%). So the difference is 220% (250%) critical damage and even more so for plasma. Speccing CP is the best thing to do for high critical damage weapons, even after the nerf.
What about specializing in high technicalities with a 16 int character?
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,574
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
No it's not. At 160q a laser pistol with Practical Physicist has 320% (350% with Sharpshooter) crit damage. With CP it's 440% (500%).
Wait, how the hell does it work? Feat description says "For each 1% of weapon or unarmed attack critical damage bonus above 100%, you gain an additional 1% critical damage bonus.". So, if I have 120% crit bonus, it's 20% above 100% and I should add another 20% making it 140%?
Also, smart modules add bonus damage to Special Attacks, not critical damage.
So, smart module just adds to base damage?
 

Sheepherder

Augur
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
657
At 160q a laser pistol with Practical Physicist has 320% (350% with Sharpshooter) crit damage. With CP it's 440% (500%). With specced CP it's 660% (750%). So the difference is 220% (250%) critical damage and even more so for plasma. Speccing CP is the best thing to do for high critical damage weapons, even after the nerf.
What about specializing in high technicalities with a 16 int character?
It's a bit hard to say because I do not know how exactly the damage bonus from High Technicalities stacks with other damage modifiers. But I think CP is still better. Not that they are mutually exclusive. Crit damage is very good because it's multiplicative with everything. And at 16 INT the 5 spec points in High Technicalities would get an extra 22% to the 88% damage modifier.

Wait, how the hell does it work? Feat description says "For each 1% of weapon or unarmed attack critical damage bonus above 100%, you gain an additional 1% critical damage bonus.". So, if I have 120% crit bonus, it's 20% above 100% and I should add another 20% making it 140%?
Argh, I missed the 100%. So in case of the laser pistol:
for unspecced CP it's: (320%-100%)*2=440% and then add the base 100% and it's 540%
specced CP: (320%-100%)*3=660% and then add the base 100% and it's 760%
Still a difference of 220% critical damage.

So, smart module just adds to base damage?
No, smart module damage bonus is considered "bonus damage", which apparently is additive with things like opportunist, but multiplicative with base damage.
So, as I understand, it should look like this:
base * skill * bonus damage (things like opportunist+special attack+blindsiding+... etc. etc.) * critical damage * increase damage taken modifiers (Concentrated Fire, Infected Wounds, Contaminated, but dunno how they stack with each other).
Although Styg did say that the stacking rules are a bit free for all, so it may not be 100% accurate. Also STR has different rules for melee weapons and unarmed. Also Improved/Expert Unarmed also stacks funny.
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
It's a bit hard to say because I do not know how exactly the damage bonus from High Technicalities stacks with other damage modifiers. But I think CP is still better. Not that they are mutually exclusive. Crit damage is very good because it's multiplicative with everything. And at 16 INT the 5 spec points in High Technicalities would get an extra 22% to the 88% damage modifier.
That's what I'm confused about. The wiki states it's multiplicative, but how is the calculation done in practice? :|
 

Sheepherder

Augur
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
657
Still a difference of 220% critical damage.
I see. But still, it's a question of "crit more" or "crit heavier". With SI, of course speccing CP would be the optimal choice, but I played as a conlet. And I really needed these crits because base damage is crap. Bladelings and Shrooms were pain exactly because of this.
Even without SI, a 69% crit chance (6+7+15+5+10+7+19) with 760% crit damage is still better than 79% crit chance with 540% crit damage.
A ~42% increase of critical damage is better than ~15% more crits. Factor in that you have crits on demand (Aimed Shot) and that the crit damage will also increase shock pistol AoE.

It's a bit hard to say because I do not know how exactly the damage bonus from High Technicalities stacks with other damage modifiers. But I think CP is still better. Not that they are mutually exclusive. Crit damage is very good because it's multiplicative with everything. And at 16 INT the 5 spec points in High Technicalities would get an extra 22% to the 88% damage modifier.
That's what I'm confused about. The wiki states it's multiplicative, but how is the calculation done in practice? :|
You'd need to make a test char and shoot Gorsky a whole bunch to determine that.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,574
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
Even without SI, a 69% crit chance (6+7+15+5+10+7+19) with 760% crit damage is still better than 79% crit chance with 540% crit damage.
A ~42% increase of critical damage is better than ~15% more crits. Factor in that you have crits on demand (Aimed Shot) and that the crit damage will also increase shock pistol AoE.
Man, 540 plus other additives is already overkill, few enemies in the game were able to survive my crits. Magnar was oneshotted, Carnifex died from two shots, Tchort within two turns. Most of Arena gladiators were oneshotted as well.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,279
Well, since my savegame is gone, and I don't want to go through the Throwing Knives pain again, what's a general 'strong' Dominating build?
Nothing specific, just an idea like "Chemical Pistols" or "Hammer Wizard" is enough.
Anything where I am not relying on visiting all the merchants every hour to get more grenade materials would be fine.
Psychosis psi is still the No. 1 build.
Crit ARs are the most powerful ranged weapons. Up to 4 bursts per turn, 100% crit chance, an "Increase damage taken" multiplier, absurd damage. Combat ends on the alpha strike turn. Crit burst shotties are a close second.
Crit swords are the most powerful melee weapons. Struggle with high DR/DT robots, but not as much as other melee. Max DEX knives overtake them at the veeeery endgame because missed flurries can fuck up the damage output of swords, but they're better for the most part of the game.
How'd you get 100% crit chance on an AR build? Even on a pistol build it's a huge pain, and you have Steadfast Aim there.
Assuming hornet frame.
5% base + 7% recklessness + 30% Survival Instincts + 15% Focus Stim + 5% Hardcore Chips + 7% Scrutinous + 10% Infused Rathoud Leather Armor + 20% Seeker goggles = 99%
Infused rat can get to 11% with save scumming, but 10% is easy. 20% seeker goggles need 164q, unlikely to get that, so let's say +18% realistically.
So 100% if lucky, 97% normally.
Also Body Horror +3% against humans.
Ah should have known it was SI, never used that because of the CON 9 requirement, also seems a bit of a bother since you can't just set your health to 30% whenever you'd like to.
I think it could be more fun to reach 100% with firearm pistols and Steadfast Aim, no heavy conditionals like SI or Ambush required, just having to use the right gun like the Magnum or Deagle.
 

Sheepherder

Augur
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
657
Ah should have known it was SI, never used that because of the CON 9 requirement, also seems a bit of a bother since you can't just set your health to 30% whenever you'd like to.
I think it could be more fun to reach 100% with firearm pistols and Steadfast Aim, no heavy conditionals like SI or Ambush required, just having to use the right gun like the Magnum or Deagle.
SI is something you activate manually and then spend the rest of the game with sub 30% HP. Enemies can't hit you if they're dead.
 

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