Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[jackofshadows]

Well, since my savegame is gone, and I don't want to go through the Throwing Knives pain again, what's a general 'strong' Dominating build?

I'd safely recommend my sniper build or some variation of it. Then again, it was Stavrophore who supplied me with the first draft. A bit rough at first but after you craft your first rifle - oh boy... pure joy, honestly. Or it's just me who enjoying this playstyle a little too much.

 

[sebas]

Problem with sniper builds is just how annoying it is to always reload on your first missed shot

I'd really want to try a sturdier build just to avoid this, and actually get the game completed. Have done traps, smg and sniper builds so fac. Cave wizard does not appeal to me.

So I guess a shotgun CON based build, would that work without too much tedium? Dunno enough to compare shotty AGI vs CON builds.

 

[Sheepherder]

Well, since my savegame is gone, and I don't want to go through the Throwing Knives pain again, what's a general 'strong' Dominating build?
Nothing specific, just an idea like "Chemical Pistols" or "Hammer Wizard" is enough.
Anything where I am not relying on visiting all the merchants every hour to get more grenade materials would be fine.

Psychosis psi is still the No. 1 build.
Crit ARs are the most powerful ranged weapons. Up to 4 bursts per turn, 100% crit chance, an "Increase damage taken" multiplier, absurd damage. Combat ends on the alpha strike turn. Crit burst shotties are a close second.
Crit swords are the most powerful melee weapons. Struggle with high DR/DT robots, but not as much as other melee. Max DEX knives overtake them at the veeeery endgame because missed flurries can fuck up the damage output of swords, but they're better for the most part of the game.

 

[ciox]

Well, since my savegame is gone, and I don't want to go through the Throwing Knives pain again, what's a general 'strong' Dominating build?
Nothing specific, just an idea like "Chemical Pistols" or "Hammer Wizard" is enough.
Anything where I am not relying on visiting all the merchants every hour to get more grenade materials would be fine.

Psychosis psi is still the No. 1 build.
Crit ARs are the most powerful ranged weapons. Up to 4 bursts per turn, 100% crit chance, an "Increase damage taken" multiplier, absurd damage. Combat ends on the alpha strike turn. Crit burst shotties are a close second.
Crit swords are the most powerful melee weapons. Struggle with high DR/DT robots, but not as much as other melee. Max DEX knives overtake them at the veeeery endgame because missed flurries can fuck up the damage output of swords, but they're better for the most part of the game.

How'd you get 100% crit chance on an AR build? Even on a pistol build it's a huge pain, and you have Steadfast Aim there.

 

[Sheepherder]

Well, since my savegame is gone, and I don't want to go through the Throwing Knives pain again, what's a general 'strong' Dominating build?
Nothing specific, just an idea like "Chemical Pistols" or "Hammer Wizard" is enough.
Anything where I am not relying on visiting all the merchants every hour to get more grenade materials would be fine.

Psychosis psi is still the No. 1 build.
Crit ARs are the most powerful ranged weapons. Up to 4 bursts per turn, 100% crit chance, an "Increase damage taken" multiplier, absurd damage. Combat ends on the alpha strike turn. Crit burst shotties are a close second.
Crit swords are the most powerful melee weapons. Struggle with high DR/DT robots, but not as much as other melee. Max DEX knives overtake them at the veeeery endgame because missed flurries can fuck up the damage output of swords, but they're better for the most part of the game.

How'd you get 100% crit chance on an AR build? Even on a pistol build it's a huge pain, and you have Steadfast Aim there.

Assuming hornet frame.
5% base + 7% recklessness + 30% Survival Instincts + 15% Focus Stim + 5% Hardcore Chips + 7% Scrutinous + 10% Infused Rathoud Leather Armor + 20% Seeker goggles = 99%
Infused rat can get to 11% with save scumming, but 10% is easy. 20% seeker goggles need 164q, unlikely to get that, so let's say +18% realistically.
So 100% if lucky, 97% normally.
Also Body Horror +3% against humans.

 

[Ol' Willy]

20% seeker goggles need 164q, unlikely to get that,

I farmed 167q seeker lenses from Oculus trader, they still give 19% chance.

Also, you can always spec Recklessness for missing percents.

 

[Sheepherder]

20% seeker goggles need 164q, unlikely to get that,

I farmed 167q seeker lenses from Oculus trader, they still give 19% chance.

Also, you can always spec Recklessness for missing percents.

Might be +19% then. But the Oculus trader goes up to 164q. Only Hanna from Institute goes up to 169q.
And don't spec into recklessness. It's a shit spec and waste of spec points, with how easy it is to stack crit chance.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Might be +19% then. But the Oculus trader goes up to 164q. Only Hanna from Institute goes up to 169q.

I disremember if it was Oculus trader or some loot from Deep Caverns, but I'l make a screenshot, it's just 19%.

Also, your equation has SI, not every build can allow it. And 30% boost is something that can't be replaced easily.

 

[Sheepherder]

In the case of ARs, SI is easy to get for a glass cannon. Even without SI, Recklessness spec is still trash.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Even without SI, Recklessness spec is still trash.

Man, I got +8% from speccing it, total +15%. Where else could I get such a bonus as a conlet?

 

[Sheepherder]

In case of e. pistols? Definitely Critical Power.

 

[Ol' Willy]

In case of e. pistols? Definitely Critical Power.

Critical Power boosts critical damage, not critical chance

5% base (6% Laser Base) + 15% recklessness + 15% Focus Stim + 5% Hardcore Chips + 7% Scrutinous + 9% Infused Rathoud Leather Armor + 19% Seeker goggles (+3% Body Horror, selective) = 75% min, 79% max

 

[Sheepherder]

In case of e. pistols? Definitely Critical Power.

Critical Power boosts critical damage, not critical chance

Yes and for e. pistols the damage increase from CP spec is better than a couple of crit chance percent.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Yes and for e. pistols the damage increase from CP spec is better than a couple of crit chance percent.

Yeah, five specc points to turn Critical Power to its pre-nerf state. But it was good enough even with nerfed CP

 

[jackofshadows]

Yeah, you need 170q+ for 20% apparently.

 

[Sheepherder]

Yes and for e. pistols the damage increase from CP spec is better than a couple of crit chance percent.

Yeah, five specc points to turn Critical Power to its pre-nerf state. But it was good enough even with nerfed CP

And speccing into it is still far better than recklessness. At 160q, 10 points in CP nets 220% critical damage. Even more if you have Sharpshooter.

 

[Ol' Willy]

And speccing into it is still far better than recklessness. At 160q, 10 points in CP nets 220% critical damage. Even more if you have Sharpshooter.

Man, amplified energy pistols already have >300% critical damage bonuses, add >+60% from smart modules, that's how much with CP? 800% critical damage bonus? More than enough. True for other weapons, though.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Yeah, you need 170q+ for 20% apparently.

That's mad, mate, where did you get such sweet stuff?

 

[Sheepherder]

And speccing into it is still far better than recklessness. At 160q, 10 points in CP nets 220% critical damage. Even more if you have Sharpshooter.

Man, amplified energy pistols already have >300% critical damage bonuses, add >+60% from smart modules, that's how much with CP? 800% critical damage bonus? More than enough. True for other weapons, though.

No it's not. At 160q a laser pistol with Practical Physicist has 320% (350% with Sharpshooter) crit damage. With CP it's 440% (500%). With specced CP it's 660% (750%). So the difference is 220% (250%) critical damage and even more so for plasma. Speccing CP is the best thing to do for high critical damage weapons, even after the nerf. Recklessness spec is never worth it because there's always better things to spec into.
Also, smart modules add bonus damage to Special Attacks, not critical damage.

 

[jackofshadows]

Ol' Willy eh, that's nothing compare to this I've posted earlier. Probably have found seeker lens there as well or somewhere nearby in DC, I mean, where else? Unfortunately, getting this lucky doesn't matter much unless you going into DC unprepared.

 

[hell bovine]

At 160q a laser pistol with Practical Physicist has 320% (350% with Sharpshooter) crit damage. With CP it's 440% (500%). With specced CP it's 660% (750%). So the difference is 220% (250%) critical damage and even more so for plasma. Speccing CP is the best thing to do for high critical damage weapons, even after the nerf.

What about specializing in high technicalities with a 16 int character?

 

[Ol' Willy]

No it's not. At 160q a laser pistol with Practical Physicist has 320% (350% with Sharpshooter) crit damage. With CP it's 440% (500%).

Wait, how the hell does it work? Feat description says "For each 1% of weapon or unarmed attack critical damage bonus above 100%, you gain an additional 1% critical damage bonus.". So, if I have 120% crit bonus, it's 20% above 100% and I should add another 20% making it 140%?

Also, smart modules add bonus damage to Special Attacks, not critical damage.

So, smart module just adds to base damage?

 

[Sheepherder]

At 160q a laser pistol with Practical Physicist has 320% (350% with Sharpshooter) crit damage. With CP it's 440% (500%). With specced CP it's 660% (750%). So the difference is 220% (250%) critical damage and even more so for plasma. Speccing CP is the best thing to do for high critical damage weapons, even after the nerf.

What about specializing in high technicalities with a 16 int character?

It's a bit hard to say because I do not know how exactly the damage bonus from High Technicalities stacks with other damage modifiers. But I think CP is still better. Not that they are mutually exclusive. Crit damage is very good because it's multiplicative with everything. And at 16 INT the 5 spec points in High Technicalities would get an extra 22% to the 88% damage modifier.

Wait, how the hell does it work? Feat description says "For each 1% of weapon or unarmed attack critical damage bonus above 100%, you gain an additional 1% critical damage bonus.". So, if I have 120% crit bonus, it's 20% above 100% and I should add another 20% making it 140%?

Argh, I missed the 100%. So in case of the laser pistol:
for unspecced CP it's: (320%-100%)*2=440% and then add the base 100% and it's 540%
specced CP: (320%-100%)*3=660% and then add the base 100% and it's 760%
Still a difference of 220% critical damage.

So, smart module just adds to base damage?

No, smart module damage bonus is considered "bonus damage", which apparently is additive with things like opportunist, but multiplicative with base damage.
So, as I understand, it should look like this:
base * skill * bonus damage (things like opportunist+special attack+blindsiding+... etc. etc.) * critical damage * increase damage taken modifiers (Concentrated Fire, Infected Wounds, Contaminated, but dunno how they stack with each other).
Although Styg did say that the stacking rules are a bit free for all, so it may not be 100% accurate. Also STR has different rules for melee weapons and unarmed. Also Improved/Expert Unarmed also stacks funny.

 

[hell bovine]

It's a bit hard to say because I do not know how exactly the damage bonus from High Technicalities stacks with other damage modifiers. But I think CP is still better. Not that they are mutually exclusive. Crit damage is very good because it's multiplicative with everything. And at 16 INT the 5 spec points in High Technicalities would get an extra 22% to the 88% damage modifier.

That's what I'm confused about. The wiki states it's multiplicative, but how is the calculation done in practice?