Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Ol' Willy]

It actually makes me wish I could fund my own in-game to explore lost and forgotten tunnels and labs of underrail, recruiting people, etc.

Underrail needs mod support!

 

[Trashos]

I think there's a lot about Lemuria I really like. I do enjoy the feel of the expedition. It actually makes me wish I could fund my own in-game to explore lost and forgotten tunnels and labs of underrail, recruiting people, etc.

I dare say that exploration in the Black Sea is at least on par with the base game (I wouldn't say the same for the Waterways, however -they are kinda boring). For example, the Health Center, the Abyssal Station, walking around LEMCO, discovering

Spoiler

the dungeon under Port Crag or Yngwar

are top notch exploration moments.

One thing I would like to see (and I understand that this may be controversial) is the developers working on expanding on exploration without fighting. It is generally challenging to make such exploration interesting, but if anyone can do it it is these guys. For example, Abyssal Station is one such example, and in my opinion the Health Center too could work without enemies.

Note that by no means do I mean that ALL exploration should be without enemies. Just certain places, and they could still have some small fight- it doesn't matter.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Note that by no means do I mean that ALL exploration should be without enemies. Just certain places, and they could still have some small fight- it doesn't matter.

It's easy, just include pacifist way. Already done with Protectorate Prison, Gray Army Base and, kinda of, Hollow Earth. Or even Port Zenith, although when I tried to pacifist it once I raged and since just kill everyone.

 

[Trashos]

It's easy, just include pacifist way. Already done with Protectorate Prison, Gray Army Base and, kinda of, Hollow Earth.

Yes but no, it is not THAT easy. Other dungeons can be all about fighting/testing the player, but what I am saying is that (especially in longer games) some dungeons could prioritize something different.

Health Center has just 2 fights, but still it is a really good dungeon. In fact, I would get rid of the fight in Lifeman's room, there is no need for it. Abyssal Station is really atmospheric and interesting with just Todd and the Shadowlith in it. The developers could have put some fighting or traps in it, but I am glad they didn't (up until the end, at least). It is better like this.

And since you are mentioning DC, Caerus might be the perfect example to emphasize my point. I would get rid of the spiders there, it does not need them. Not all places/dungeons need to have fighting,

 

[Tigranes]

I can see that it's tough. Health Center and Abyssal Station are good, but that's also because they're a breath of fresh air after the combat and their own 'gimmicks' don't outstay their welcome. I wouldn't want to do four different Health Centers, and I think anyone would struggle to design them in mesmerising ways. That said, I agree - it would be great to see more of this bespoke, not-only-combat stuff.

Conversely, depending on player build and metaknowledge, sometimes you can end up having a bit too much of the same combat. My no-stealth juggernaut spearman is now doing the DLC and you think, did I really need to be presented with 50+ crabs, half a dozen hives, dozens of statues, etc., even after avoiding a lot of them? If someone did all the fights in Nexus that's quite a few battles that play out exactly the same.

 

[Tigranes]

was watching closely on my last playthrough with merchant secret stock. Obviously its best to use both but in general it was coretech that provided best mats for me.

Coretech is better on average, but Oculus has better quality overall though with lower spawn chances. Since I have little time for conventional trading rounds I choose Oculus.

Reloading traders provides some useful info. I was reloading Black Eels trader, Gort and Old Geezer before even doing Depot A and sometimes they have Plasma Grenade and Shield blueprints. Check them out often if you interested.

I believe Plasma Grenade spawn is very rare on any normal trader, and then maybe spawns with traveling merchants. So the only 'reliable' drop that doesn't involve reloading merchants a hundred times (not my idea of a good time) is Coretech or Nexus level 7. This game I had to wait for the latter, having lugged around 50+ plasma components collected all game. It's on now, bitches.

 

[Trashos]

Health Center and Abyssal Station are good, but that's also because they're a breath of fresh air after the combat and their own 'gimmicks' don't outstay their welcome. I wouldn't want to do four different Health Centers, and I think anyone would struggle to design them in mesmerising ways. That said, I agree - it would be great to see more of this bespoke, not-only-combat stuff.

Ex-act-ly! I am talking about breaking the pace, not displacing the focus of the game to non-combat. Combat is #1, but then there is room for more.

 

[Ol' Willy]

doesn't involve reloading merchants a hundred times (not my idea of a good time) is Coretech or Nexus level 7.

Nah, I was just checking the spawn system. These traders have two-three blueprints that spawn with 100% certainty and one-two that spawn at random. You may find curious things there.

Speaking of Plasma grenades, by the time I obtain the blueprint I usually don't need them much - my build is strong enough and I don't have to use frag/plasma grenades that much. I like crowd-control stuff more.

 

[Parabalus]

Surprised grenades were never nerfed, they offer too much for too little investment.

 

[Trashos]

It could be argued that grenades were buffed with the inclusion of plasma grenades.

Grenades are probably the most powerful thing in the game, but if they get nerfed then most primary weapons will have to be buffed. So I am not sure it is worth touching them.

 

[Yaz]

Surprised grenades were never nerfed, they offer too much for too little investment.

Constant need to resupply, mediocre damage without Three-Pointer and heavy investment into Throwing, mediocre 'nades without crafting, expensive components without Mercantile, need for space as you can't use them everywhere as you will need to keep 3 tiles safe space in mind. 'Nades are quite alright in terms of balancing.

 

[lukaszek]

Surprised grenades were never nerfed, they offer too much for too little investment.

depends on difficulty I guess. On had and dominating grenades you get access to from shops are not enough. One needs crafting and/or mercantile. Even then stock is limited and you can't just go blasting everywhere.
If anything could use some fixing is how electronics give you 2 uber grenades.
Grenadier feat is kind of mandatory which pushes you further from being free.

I never felt that grenades outright win encounter, i never played without at the same time

 

[fredsteel]

Surprised grenades were never nerfed, they offer too much for too little investment.

Constant need to resupply, mediocre damage without Three-Pointer and heavy investment into Throwing, mediocre 'nades without crafting, expensive components without Mercantile, need for space as you can't use them everywhere as you will need to keep 3 tiles safe space in mind. 'Nades are quite alright in terms of balancing.

I think the problem with grenades is that you can craft Mk IV's a bit too early in the game, allowing you to clean up most fights pretty easily. Pricing and/or rarity was never a problem for me when it came it to crafting them.

 

[Fenix]

You guys got any input on the worth/usefulness of Ambush for a crossbow build? Always seemed too specialized and unreliable as opposed to other stealthy feats.

Throw a flare, put a proxy and you can make itwork anywhere I think.

Surprised grenades were never nerfed, they offer too much for too little investment.

Styg totl that maybe in next game... too late fot this one. Or something.

 

[fredsteel]

The best thing in Expedition is how dumb and funny the fish look like:

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

 

[Parabalus]

It could be argued that grenades were buffed with the inclusion of plasma grenades.

And with TM given how LTI interacts with the CD.

Surprised grenades were never nerfed, they offer too much for too little investment.

Constant need to resupply, mediocre damage without Three-Pointer and heavy investment into Throwing, mediocre 'nades without crafting, expensive components without Mercantile, need for space as you can't use them everywhere as you will need to keep 3 tiles safe space in mind. 'Nades are quite alright in terms of balancing.

Even just the plain molotov is ridiculous, without any feat or skill investment.

 

[Tygrende]

Styg mentioned that he doesn't like how good throwing is with little investment on several occasions. It could eventually get nerfed so you have to invest more skill points to throw with accuracy.

 

[Trashos]

Accuracy is not the issue, though. If people like to reload until their grenade hits, that is not up to the developer to fix afaic. It is absurd to try to fix issues that are due to excessive reloading in chance-based games.

 

[Ramnozack]

Make it so you have to drink a mushroom schnapps every time you want to save, problem solved

 

[lukaszek]

Make it so you have to drink a mushroom schnapps every time you want to save, problem solved

thats amazing idea actually, one of best things that kcd had in it. Alchemy diluted its value so its best if its never craftable.

Even just the plain molotov is ridiculous, without any feat or skill investment.

I always found molotovs meh outside of lowest tier enemies. If anything was using it mainly for fear effect.

EDIT:
tampering with grenades accuracy would break game in many ways. Perhaps have throwing skill alter cooldowns or AP costs?

 

[Tigranes]

Grenades are incredibly powerful. I'm not sure if they're OP, but for me Throwing (at least up to 50) + Chemistry - for FragIII by Depot A and FragV past midgame - is just a nobrainer. Even without any investment, molotovs is the single most flexible & useful thing for many characters in the early game. lukaszek it's not about the damage, it's about the ability to cut off chokepoints, CC several enemies to take them out of the fight, things which normally require a lot of investment or you don't even have access to for many early game characters.

I wouldn't argue for nerfing them, because that would reduce the one source of relative diversity in combat tactics that every character has access to. (Throwing nets and knives, for instance, are much more affected by lack of investment.) I think if you made grenades more specialised tools that only throwing experts use, then it stands to reason that you either open up some other tools for broader use, or you rework the skill point/etc distribution to allow characters to become a bit more hybrid in their investment.

 

[Trashos]

Make it so you have to drink a mushroom schnapps every time you want to save, problem solved

thats amazing idea actually, one of best things that kcd had in it. Alchemy diluted its value so its best if its never craftable.

See? Whenever developers try to tackle issues that stem from reloading in chance-based games, terrible things happen. And I mean this 100%.

"Game too easy, I beat it after 562 reloads to get good rolls" etc-etc.

 

[lukaszek]

i recall how it bloodlines i figured 1st time around ui bug that allowed me to allocate everything. So I did. 1st thing that Jack said was something like 'not cool. start over or continue and have meh experience'.

I bring this up as it would be cool if after finishing the game stats showed how your run deviated from displayed percentages, thus showing how much you have relied on savescumming

 

[Ol' Willy]

Styg mentioned that he doesn't like how good throwing is with little investment on several occasions. It could eventually get nerfed so you have to invest more skill points to throw with accuracy.

My last run - 260 effective throwing skill. Half of the time grenades landed not where I wanted them to land.

 

[Tigranes]

Current run, 200, mostly lands just fine??