Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Blaine]

"Past time for bed... what's this? A jet ski jump ramp? Fucking awesome!"

I should have known better. That took about forty-five minutes, a handful of grenades, and a lot of special ammo. Thankfully, my overly-complex loadout—certain amounts of the various types of of 5mm and 7.62mm ammo; a few HE, EMP, and incendiary grenades on standby to back up my primary complement of frags, bangs, and crawler caltrops; alternate goggles, balaclava, and cloaking device also on standby; the expected variety of medications; a few eel sandwiches; and two each of several preferred traps—serves me well in a pinch.

Can't complain about a surprise dungeon. New content is very refreshing after playing Underrail for so long. I have noticed, however, that a lot of clutter and visual busy-ness has been utilized in newer level designs, contrasted with the base game's fairly simplistic and minimalist (but interesting, and not empty) design. I think Styg should dial back on the greebles and excess visual detail. The elegance of those earlier designs is preferable. Pretty sure I aired this opinion a couple of years ago when I first played Expedition.

 

[Parabalus]

Or you could just prevent the kidnapping with 38 pickpocket and get it for free right after the 1st invasion.

Pirates turn hostile, and thats not what i want, since Briggs is a fucking asshole.

So guys, i'm doing a machete guy for the first time ever. Never touched melee unless for the versatility stuff. Do agility really counts? I don't feel having more than 8 agility. My machete guy is at level 9 with the stats 8, 10, 8, 3, 5, 5. Inteligence and will because i want to get Ripper and Cheap Shots. How does one deal with several ranged enemies? I've been pumping Evasion and Dodge, for the first time also.

I did it with 6, you can just use LoS to draw them in. With 8 AGI for Fancy Footwork it'll be a breeze.

 

[CHEMS]

Can't complain about a surprise dungeon. New content is very refreshing after playing Underrail for so long. I have noticed, however, that a lot of clutter and visual busy-ness has been utilized in newer level designs, contrasted with the base game's fairly simplistic and minimalist (but interesting, and not empty) design. I think Styg should dial back on the greebles and excess visual detail. The elegance of those earlier designs is preferable. Pretty sure I aired this opinion a couple of years ago when I first played Expedition.

Wait till you see the HOPPERDROME.

New location that i found in the waterways. A cave where you can bet on race hoppers. All sponsored by Core Chips!

 

[Blaine]

I did it with 6, you can just use LoS to draw them in.

Sounds awful—playing in such a way, I mean. It's been a long time since my sledgehammer tin can playthrough, but I seem to recall "drawing them in" by steadfastly and tactically allowing enemies to shower me with bullets, grenades, and psi powers.

I keep toying with PK punch and machete builds, but they (PK punch in particular) rely on too many base attributes. I wish that Styg would remove the "Increased X" one-only restriction for the simple reason that I think that would elevate spread-thin builds to true enjoyability.

I mean, if you want a PK punch guy, you need STR, DEX, AGI, fucking WIL, fucking CON, everyone needs some INT (psi users in particular), and that leaves you with a mediocre piece of shit spread like half a pat of butter over a loaf's worth of toast.

I mean, Styg had to cheat to make Carnifex. That really says it all. I have no doubt that a min-maxed, Dom-ready glass cannon fist build is viable, but that isn't interesting to me at all.

 

[Parabalus]

I did it with 6, you can just use LoS to draw them in.

Sounds awful—playing in such a way, I mean. It's been a long time since my sledgehammer tin can playthrough, but I seem to recall "drawing them in" by steadfastly and tactically allowing enemies to shower me with bullets, grenades, and psi powers.

I keep toying with PK punch and machete builds, but they (PK punch in particular) rely on too many base attributes. I wish that Styg would remove the "Increased X" one-only restriction for the simple reason that I think that would elevate spread-thin builds to true enjoyability.

I mean, if you want a PK punch guy, you need STR, DEX, AGI, fucking WIL, fucking CON, everyone needs some INT (psi users in particular), and that leaves you with a mediocre piece of shit spread like half a pat of butter over a loaf's worth of toast.

I mean, Styg had to cheat to make Carnifex. That really says it all. I have no doubt that a min-maxed, Dom-ready glass cannon fist build is viable, but that isn't interesting to me at all.

It's def not ideal, and worse than having 10 AGI and running all over the place, but I did that already. Build was 7 18 6 3 3 5 6 machete, which as you note is very tight - was mostly focused on seeing stuff I never did before.

Why would you need CON for a puncher though?

 

[Blaine]

Why would you need CON for a puncher though?

I'm not interested in playing a fist fighter who folds like a cheap suit whenever he takes a hit. Dumping CON and taking Psi Empathy is the absolute epitome of being a glass cannon, and I'm not going to do it with a melee character. I understand that that's what Evasion and Dodge are supposed to be for, but they don't reduce enemy to-hit nearly enough—ESPECIALLY with a build category that tends to emphasize DEX and will probably opt for minimum necessary amount of AGI, meaning effective Evasion and Dodge are lower. To me, that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

____________________________________________________​

On a different tack, I lost a very similar screen cap that I took ages ago, but I knew I'd get the parts to show off another one sooner or later.

All that's required to have >2,000 additional hit points in this game is a two-thirds maxed skill (if that) and one feat. Yes, it can be EMP'd and partly/entirely bypassed (and on this playthrough, I hardly ever need it), but 1-800-COME-ON-NOW. My main concern isn't even the excessive possible HP bonus, but rather that shop-bought ones are hot garbage in comparison.

 

[Parabalus]

I'm not interested in playing a fist fighter who folds like a cheap suit whenever he takes a hit. Dumping CON and taking Psi Empathy is the absolute epitome of being a glass cannon, and I'm not going to do it with a melee character. I understand that that's what Evasion and Dodge are supposed to be for, but they don't reduce enemy to-hit nearly enough—ESPECIALLY with a build category that tends to emphasize DEX and will probably opt for minimum necessary amount of AGI, meaning effective Evasion and Dodge are lower. To me, that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

If you have enough AGI, you can take Fancy Footwork and easily end each turn outside of LoS/range.

The sword build above had 0 dodge/evasion, though on a more tryhard build you should take enough for at least Uncanny and Fancy.

 

[Blaine]

If you have enough AGI, you can take Fancy Footwork and easily end each turn outside of LoS/range.

Seems wholly inferior to my current Expertise Spec Ops SMG build. I can dish out damage comparable to what a fist-fighter can, zoom around corners similarly with Sprint and bonus MP from Hit and Run, I can deal damage at a modest range when needed rather than being limited to melee range, I can take longer-range pot shots when desirable, and my primary offensive stat allows me to spot traps, hunters, knifers, and Death Stalkers instead of fishing slightly more successfully (until the Fisherman feat is obtained). All of it without totally dumping CON or being further gimped by Psi Empathy.

Granted, Psychokinesis and TM are nothing to sniff at, and I lack those... but that's two more skills to pump on top of Dodge and Evasion. Again, pat of butter spread too thinly.

The sword build above had 0 dodge/evasion, though on a more tryhard build you should take enough for at least Uncanny and Fancy.

I do plan to try a sword build at some point. I really enjoyed my spear/riot armor playthrough, especially once the feats got to synergizing and Death Stalkers' little stingers simply bounced comically off my invincible shield.

 

[Parabalus]

I can take longer-range pot shots when desirable, and my primary offensive stat allows me to spot traps, hunters, knifers, and Death Stalkers instead of fishing slightly more successfully (until the Fisherman feat is obtained)

PER is really weak as a main stat. Even maxed you won't see Death Stalkers early on, and later on it's replaced by levels and goggles. You can find all secrets with 3 PER (not that they're worth it).

DEX governs Throwing, Traps, Lockpicking and Pickpocketing, all of which are stellar.

Seems wholly inferior to my current Expertise Spec Ops SMG build. I can dish out damage comparable to what a fist-fighter can

Probably? Was pretty comfy on DOM, goes to show you don't need anything near an optimized build.

Not sure what a good would be metric is. Number of turns needed to kill the Nagas by the Lemurian spear?

 

[lukaszek]

Not sure what a good would be metric is. Number of turns needed to kill the Nagas by the Lemurian spear?

i believe number of enemies dropped per turn in protectorate base

 

[CHEMS]

Sounds awful—playing in such a way, I mean. It's been a long time since my sledgehammer tin can playthrough, but I seem to recall "drawing them in" by steadfastly and tactically allowing enemies to shower me with bullets, grenades, and psi powers.

On expedition it's a chore running melee. Ditched the machete guy, made a new critical shotgun one. Now that's fun.

 

[Sheepherder]

Ever seen a shiv? It's a knife weapon. Deals 1-7 damage, has critical damage bonus of 200% and 7 AP attack cost. Previous patch made it craftable - Lucas, the SGS weapons merchant sells the blueprint. But neither crafting feats, nor component quality can alter the stats. It forever has a base damage of 1 - 7.

So, I made a shiv build. It's ass, but fun. If it doesn't crit, it deals 0 damage. Nice. If it crits, but rolls a 1, it deals 10 damage. If it crits, rolls a 7 and the enemy has some of its HP missing, it deals 300 damage. Well, it'll eventually deal 300 damage. I'm content with dealing over 100 damage for now.

Here's a video - Grey Army base. Did it in one go and on the first try. Although the veeery last enemy nearly fucked me over.

 

[jackofshadows]

Sheepherder thanks for another cool vid but I gotta say: learn to use hot keys. I know, I know, it's a fucking TB game but it's way more convenient way to play when you get used to it and it could make your vids much more impressive, beleive me.

There's not much extra space to re-bind 7-9 but it's still possible or at least arrange all to 1-6/+shit/+ctrl (remember that if you have extra buttons on mouse you can easily set one for ctrl or shift or for thouse extra 7-9 binds).

Additionally, don't forget to use V for shield unless you wanna re-bind, shift+q/w/e/r for reload and I beleive you're already using a bind to start combat (I'm using 'e' and shifting the rest of utility binds).

 

[Sheepherder]

Yeah, I gotta memorize the shield hotkey someday. As for numerical hotkeys, it's a habit thing.

 

[jackofshadows]

Mustle memory can easily be rewritten, habit means nothing here, trust me.

 

[Blaine]

On expedition it's a chore running melee. Ditched the machete guy, made a new critical shotgun one. Now that's fun.

Yeah, and it's even more of a chore if you aren't stealth-based. I'm still not sure what Styg was thinking when he thumbs-upped the fucking locusts.

They could be improved in two ways:

• The land-based locusts hop-flutter to their destinations in a single bound—with a brief animation and a mid-turn-based teleport, just like crawlers flipping up onto the ceiling, except the locusts land in a designated spot based on their MP.

• Instead of rearing back, spitting, and recovering—each phase with its own animation, thirteen fucking times per motherfucking locust per God-damned round, they should spit in a "burst" or stream. Nothing need be changed in terms of damage per shot, precision, nor the number of discrete/individual damage packets.

Styg I've actually given this a LOT of thought, and I believe that the above two solutions would improve locusts without having to alter anything mechanically. Technically and man hours-wise, I couldn't say, though I imagine a hop-flutter animation would definitely require some real work. Seems promising enough to be worth tagging you.

 

[Tigranes]

So, I've been running a GUNFU BULLET TIME HOBO, Dom/Oddity, nothing special, similar to Ol' Willy's prepatch guy. DEX, Versatility, SI. Walk up to people, shoot that .44 hammerer about 12 times in one turn.

It's certainly not the most powerful build but it's quite fun. Hobo can be silent murderer - sneak up, dirty kick, cheap shots - but also transition smoothly into loud close-range bang bangs. At level 15 and I'm really enjoying stacking Claw bio and watching hobo do literally thousands of damage in one turn with Haste, Adrenaline and Bullet Time.

I don't know the exact calculations on Versatility+Gun Fu but it feels powerful, often punching huge holes in armoured enemies with just normal ammo. It was surprising to be able to just shoot robots in the face with bullets in Depot A, and generally do a lot more raw damage than I expected.

 

[lukaszek]

Ever seen a shiv? It's a knife weapon. Deals 1-7 damage, has critical damage bonus of 200% and 7 AP attack cost. Previous patch made it craftable - Lucas, the SGS weapons merchant sells the blueprint. But neither crafting feats, nor component quality can alter the stats. It forever has a base damage of 1 - 7.

yeah I did learn hard way that there is nothing to improve it.
I always used it before delivering drill parts. low AP works fine on knife builds before high dex kicks in. Helps you utilize ap better at the very least

 

[jackofshadows]

I don't know the exact calculations on Versatility+Gun Fu but it feels powerful

I did some calculations and it was roughly +20% dmg at melee range plus some thc bonus. Not that great tbh then again it's just one feat. Bullet time is really cool tho. Shame that there's no spec to reduce cooldown.

Running pretty much the same build myself and preparing to face the praetorian warehouse bloodbath at 20 lvl - it's no joke. But I was also surprised that such a build would made me that far easily consider that I didn't even touch chem pistols, almost didn't use bear traps or other gimmicks, just some stealth shanking+shoot out with contraction and adrenalin while relying on ambush (SI is better but that's beside the point).

 

[CHEMS]

Why would you need CON for a puncher though?

I'm not interested in playing a fist fighter who folds like a cheap suit whenever he takes a hit. Dumping CON and taking Psi Empathy is the absolute epitome of being a glass cannon, and I'm not going to do it with a melee character. I understand that that's what Evasion and Dodge are supposed to be for, but they don't reduce enemy to-hit nearly enough—ESPECIALLY with a build category that tends to emphasize DEX and will probably opt for minimum necessary amount of AGI, meaning effective Evasion and Dodge are lower. To me, that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

____________________________________________________​

On a different tack, I lost a very similar screen cap that I took ages ago, but I knew I'd get the parts to show off another one sooner or later.

All that's required to have >2,000 additional hit points in this game is a two-thirds maxed skill (if that) and one feat. Yes, it can be EMP'd and partly/entirely bypassed (and on this playthrough, I hardly ever need it), but 1-800-COME-ON-NOW. My main concern isn't even the excessive possible HP bonus, but rather that shop-bought ones are hot garbage in comparison.

View attachment 18686

That's a beautiful shield there, mate

 

[Tigranes]

I don't know the exact calculations on Versatility+Gun Fu but it feels powerful

I did some calculations and it was roughly +20% dmg at melee range plus some thc bonus. Not that great tbh then again it's just one feat. Bullet time is really cool tho. Shame that there's no spec to reduce cooldown.

Running pretty much the same build myself and preparing to face the praetorian warehouse bloodbath at 20 lvl - it's no joke. But I was also surprised that such a build would made me that far easily consider that I didn't even touch chem pistols, almost didn't use bear traps or other gimmicks, just some stealth shanking+shoot out with contraction and adrenalin while relying on ambush (SI is better but that's beside the point).

I am doing JKK for some reason after nearly always going Coretech, but yeah, I actually expected this build to be far worse than my usual energy/chem combo, and mostly surprised that it's been smooth so far. I do imagine that later content will become troublesome, though - there's just hard limitations with a lightly clothed non-psi dude who has to run up close to blast people.

Using no special abilities at the moment, just good old 70+% crit chance.

 

[Fenix]

What if I'd pick Versatility and put point in both melee and guns? Is it useless?

 

[jackofshadows]

I do imagine that later content will become troublesome, though

Not sure what you imagining. Pre-lift fight? Childs-play. Tchort itself? Bullet time>it's dead. Faceless crowd? Not that they're nessesary but I think it's easily doable at least with stasis/restealth but even w/o it.

 

[Tigranes]

I do imagine that later content will become troublesome, though

Not sure what you imagining. Pre-lift fight? Childs-play. Tchort itself? Bullet time>it's dead. Faceless crowd? Not that they're nessesary but I think it's easily doable at least with stasis/restealth but even w/o it.

Heh, I skip DC these days. I was more thinking Expedition statues and such. Natives should be fun, though.

BTW, Core city sewers, I've found a couple of rooms, and I suspect at least some of them are actually old and I've forgotten - do people know about:

Spoiler

1/ the tattoo parlor?
2/ the waste disposal facility with gigantic flaming balls stopping you from entering? would you just use Master Exploder's suit?
3/ the sewer trash room where you use console to clear the rubble and get at the loot? Though I didn't find anything worthwhile this time.

What if I'd pick Versatility and put point in both melee and guns? Is it useless?

I put up to 70 for Guns then kept going for Melee with this one, as Bullet Time requires it. And that also helps you stay competitive with guns in the early game despite 3 PER. Definitely viable.

 

[CHEMS]

What if I'd pick Versatility and put point in both melee and guns? Is it useless?

Yes. What matters is the effective skill. Though versatility builds will have to invest points just to get perks.