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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
are there any leather options that aren't just ho hum samey?

Not to my knowledge.

Sadly, any non-Energy build just devolves into boring tedium in Expeditions I think. Sure, you can do plasma grenades, expose weakness, energy edge, and so on, but the point is you just routine the one way to clear every mob and it's just a lot slower than acid/energy tuned builds.

I am not in Expedition yet with the gloves build, but I found it more than fine with Knives. Shock knives against strongmen and most high DT enemies, energy knives (and door abuse) against psi crabs, throwing knives while on the jet ski. Of course, chemical pistols are king in the dlc, but otoh chemical pistols have troubles in the early game.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Trashos but that's what I mean - yes, it's not difficult, you just EMT, Plasma, shock/energy, and you're there. But it's just slower and more boring and I sit there wondering why I bother - there's not much tactics or anything of interest.

This time with max AGI I'll finally see if full jetski feats can actually make jetski melee good.

At least with builds that struggle very early game, there's some fun scrounging two pieces of string to figure some solution out.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,381
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Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
When it comes to Melee builds, which one's have you guys had the most fun with? I know I want my last character post-final update* to be one since it's the only combat style I've not yet beaten the game on Hard with. But I'm caught between either a nimble Unarmed/PK fighter, a Sword-Wielding Samurai clad in heavy metal armor, or a Witchdoctor with a spear and versed in Thought-Control.
My favorite build was a Spartan Hoplite personally. I love how Spears work in the game, so anything with a spear I'd say.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
I love how Spears work in the game, so anything with a spear I'd say.

Do try to sell spears to us who are not seeing it. (I haven't played them)

But it's just slower and more boring and I sit there wondering why I bother - there's not much tactics or anything of interest.

What I meant is that knives play more or less "normally" in the dlc. Chem is just too good there.
Not sure what you are finding so tedious. There is some tedium, but it is more or less like in the rest of the game. Care to name places? High AG gives some options, and there are several cases where you can make enemies take each other out, which is very cool.

This time with max AGI I'll finally see if full jetski feats can actually make jetski melee good.

Only read if you want it spoiled.
Melee still sucks at sea. I had 56% chance to hit the fish with all feats and best suspension. So it still sucks, just not as bad as without them. Luckily, we have many attacks, and also throwing knives hit fine.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,618
Do try to sell spears to us who are not seeing it. (I haven't played them)
sweep counts as hitting each enemy. Be it for fancy footwork, shocks, adjacent enemies being shocked and so on
I found it quite cool. Also they can support evasive playstyle, mage or tank with a shield
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I love how Spears work in the game, so anything with a spear I'd say.

Do try to sell spears to us who are not seeing it. (I haven't played them)

But it's just slower and more boring and I sit there wondering why I bother - there's not much tactics or anything of interest.

What I meant is that knives play more or less "normally" in the dlc. Chem is just too good there.
Not sure what you are finding so tedious. There is some tedium, but it is more or less like in the rest of the game. Care to name places? High AG gives some options, and there are several cases where you can make enemies take each other out, which is very cool.

This time with max AGI I'll finally see if full jetski feats can actually make jetski melee good.

Only read if you want it spoiled.
Melee still sucks at sea. I had 56% chance to hit the fish with all feats and best suspension. So it still sucks, just not as bad as without them. Luckily, we have many attacks, and also throwing knives hit fine.

Well, I'm in Nexus Tech, for example, and clearing at least a couple levels until I find the key to disable security (no hacking). And every time a bunch of handmaidens/strongmen spawn I'm just like "yeah OK, EMT/Plasma/Energy knife pew pew pew, no danger no variation, just reload if I fuck something up". No incap, no bleed stack, and even slower if mech damage threshold means no combo stacking. Am I just doing something dumb?

Certainly, every underrail battle with every build becomes routine flushing, but at least there's some situational variation when, say, taking on death stalkers or even natives. 5 statues and I'm just bleurgh
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Yeah, I don't know what to tell you there. I know that some veterans play without hacking (or lockpicking or both), but I would never do it myself. With hacking Nexus is pretty smooth (as long as one starts at the bottom and gradually moves upwards).

In general though, I found a lot of dlc dungeons irritating at the beginning, but as I grew more comfortable with the content I have started to like them quite a bit. I fucking love the dlc now.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Do try to sell spears to us who are not seeing it. (I haven't played them)
It's a ton of fun being able to throw the Spears, which adds a level of detail to the combat, making it both melee and ranged to an extent. I enjoy figuring out the optimal place to throw my Spear so that it'll be somewhere within reach, and once I pick it up I'll be in a place where I can unleash more damage. The extended range is a very cool mechanic as well, and it really adds a new level of strategy to combat with other melee npcs. The blocking mechanic is a ton of fun, and a lot of the Expedition enemies are trivialized. Crabs, Strongmen, Handmaiden, Spiders? Sorry, couldn't tell the difference since they're all bouncing off my shield harmlessly. Plus, the build I made had a fair bit of agility, so combining that with Spear and Shield's natural tankiness makes a very robust build. Adding Psionics into the mix only mixes things up even more and allows for some cool combinations. It also just felt nice to run around with a spear and shield.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Yeah, I don't know what to tell you there. I know that some veterans play without hacking (or lockpicking or both), but I would never do it myself. With hacking Nexus is pretty smooth (as long as one starts at the bottom and gradually moves upwards).

In general though, I found a lot of dlc dungeons irritating at the beginning, but as I grew more comfortable with the content I have started to like them quite a bit. I fucking love the dlc now.

Sadly, I'm up to at least my 6th or 7th DLC run, and I still think encounters aren't very well designed overall. I'm OK with paying a tangible price for lack of Hacking, though, it's good C&C.

At least AGI 10 meant I could finally skip the Nexus approachway.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
I kinda see your point, in the sense that I consider the dlc to be a bit more strategic than tactical. That is, I find that it rewards preparation (both in build and in gear), and figuring the tricks of each dungeon out. I feel that it has rewarded me greatly for the effort I have put in it.

I was more inclined to agree fully with you in my early playthroughs of the Expedition. By now I have figured out for myself how to approach it so that I can enjoy it.
(In the same sense that I had to figure out that I enjoy the base game better playing stealth builds with a lot of attacks. If I were somehow forced to play a tank with sledgehammer or classic mode instead of oddity, I don't think I would enjoy the game as much. To each their own, of course.)
 

CHEMS

Scholar
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
1,504
When it comes to Melee builds, which one's have you guys had the most fun with? I know I want my last character post-final update* to be one since it's the only combat style I've not yet beaten the game on Hard with. But I'm caught between either a nimble Unarmed/PK fighter, a Sword-Wielding Samurai clad in heavy metal armor, or a Witchdoctor with a spear and versed in Thought-Control.

Pneumatic Gloves with PK/TM is pretty sweet.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
lvl22, I am rocking 2 pneumatic gloves with 5AP cost each (which is going to be 4AP at lvl26), and I am an unstoppable force of destruction. I am about to go to the Black Sea. This far I have only had 1 death in combat (against the Burrowers in the Arena, LOL - the Warrior Burrower got me coming from a distance). But I have also had a couple of reloads due to sneaking gone bad.

The internal debate I am having about my build is whether I should have gone STR5 INT7 instead of STR7 INT5, and taken Power Management instead of Break Bones. I think that both routes are reasonable. I am generally happy that by now I don't feel I have to take Versatility with my melee builds anymore.
 

Fenix

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
6,458
Location
Russia atchoum!
When it comes to Melee builds, which one's have you guys had the most fun with?

It's depend on what you feel is fun.
You could be OHKO monster with hammer, wrapped in animal hide.
Or walking mounting clad in though armor.
Or dextrous hunter, hardy and wiry with a spear.
Or massively built boxer.
Or agile unarmed fighter called Bruce.
Or ruthless brutal murderer with sharp long knife...
 

Ramnozack

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
876
When it comes to Melee builds, which one's have you guys had the most fun with? I know I want my last character post-final update* to be one since it's the only combat style I've not yet beaten the game on Hard with. But I'm caught between either a nimble Unarmed/PK fighter, a Sword-Wielding Samurai clad in heavy metal armor, or a Witchdoctor with a spear and versed in Thought-Control.
I'll shill for my sword/psi build again. In terms of melee builds, I've tried psi puncher, heavy armor sledgehammer dude, and a knife guy, but my sword/psi build was my favorite of the bunch.

It uses PK and TC with enough temporal to use haste and stasis. In terms of melee its a crit focused sword build, so pretty strong in terms of damage, and it synergizes well with PK in particular to maximize you flurry hit chance. It has a tool for every situation and you never really feel as though you are lacking something when going into a fight and its pretty powerful.

Can be a bit rough in the early game if you don't know what you are doing, but if you can survive that its a pretty smooth playthrough.

Heres the build: https://underrail.info/build/?HgUKA...KMBmdLIcKHElxOwrfCjWTinY0D4p-EAeKnvgrirJcB378
 

Ramnozack

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
876
Ramnozack, that's more of a psi build with some melee in it, though.
Eh, it's quite invested into melee, so I don't know about that. I'd say its more balanced between the two, and it feels like that when playing. Swords don't need a lot of stat investment, not for dex crit builds anyway, to do good damage, which is why the dex is relatively low, if that's what you mean.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
What I mean is that WILL is your main stat, and frankly once you have Thought Control AND Psychokinesis you don't need much else. Now, I am not saying that people should not be playing your build or that it is bad. I just don't think that it counts as a (primarily, at least) melee build.
 

Hex

Guest
Can anyone remind me how much lockpicking and hacking I need to top out all the checks? Before all bonuses from items like jackknife are applied, etc. Normally I don't look these things up, but I need to save up on crafting points to LARP as a trap specialist.

I'm going full stealth.
 

Ghulgothas

Arcane
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Messages
1,598
Location
So Below
Can anyone remind me how much lockpicking and hacking I need to top out all the checks? Before all bonuses from items like jackknife are applied, etc. Normally I don't look these things up, but I need to save up on crafting points to LARP as a trap specialist.

I'm going full stealth.
I think recent updates have added some higher-level checks, but around 130 for each will get you access to almost everything in-game. Jackknife, Huxkey and other boosters can take you from there.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
I go 100 effective for lockpicking and 130 effective for hacking*, but there are a definitely a couple of 135 checks for hacking, and 120+ for lockpicking (probably more for lockpicking, don't remember exactly).

*as a matter of fact, I go ~100 effective for hacking, and let All In and Hypercerebrix take me to 130 the couple of times I want it.

---------------
In other news, I was wearing my infused pig leather boots to carry stuff around. I happened to click on a Junkyard thug, and he commented "Where did you get them boots?". Nice touch!
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
How much lategame stuff is there really for the 130 threshold?

I usually stop after Joint Security HQ and never do DC, and up until then, I'd say 110 effective actually gets everything you want (given +10 hacking Lemurian suit, +7 Jackknife, and other options like Oculus lockpick, even without any food).
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
How much lategame stuff is there really for the 130 threshold?

There are important 130 hacking checks in Arke in DC. One time that I tried to do it without high hacking, my life was a living hell (well, even more so than usual I mean -Arke is never pleasant). Maybe there are smarter workarounds than what I tried, but I don't know any.
 

Hex

Guest
Anyone else getting a lot of errors between zone transitions? I used to never have any issues while playing earlier versions.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
errors between zone transitions

Not a lot, but in the latest 2 versions I do have more than before. I always had this issue, it was just very rare. Now it is still very rare, but less so.

(Rolling back to an earlier save fixes it, btw. Although you may have to roll back to a save where you were in a different location.)
 

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