Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Fenix]

One is that high technology as we know it in the real world breaks down constantly, requires continual maintenance, and simply doesn't last.

The reason is the intended design - programmed obsolescense of everything for consumers use. Plastic details where simle steel should be - in meatgrinder for example, or in notebooks so their screens just can't held vertically after some time. Or german motors which today last 3-5 years, while 20 years ago ti was 10-15-20 years. Most of time it's not technology limitations.

 

[Trashos]

In other news... Wow, burrowers are so much easier for tanks than they are for stealthy builds! Maybe I should employ tanking tactics against burrowers with my stealthy builds too, although I am not sure whether it will work for absolute glass cannons.

 

[jackofshadows]

That's nice but nothing compared to the sight of poor stalkers which cannot bite through your armor. Dophamine through the roof is guaranteed.

 

[Ol' Willy]

It's kinda telling that most of the people agree on the point that unique firearms are not very useful.

What may benefit the game is more unique "frames" for crafting instead. Some very old ones, experimental ones, cutting edge ones, etc. All of them would be available for crafting but with the caveat that they are very rare or maybe even exist in one place at all in the game. In return, they will have some interesting bonuses and feats.

Then, the dev can stuff these frames in various donjons for player to hunt for.

Rare OP items are dope of many RPGs while most of the loot in Underrail is rather generic.

 

[Zeem]

The biggest problem of unique firearms is that they aren't actually that unique. They might use a caliber that's otherwise inaccessible to the weapon type or get a minor bonus equivalent to a single attachment, but they don't do anything radically different. They have no additional damage types or effects that they'd apply to targets, they have no improved synergy with any of the feats and they don't have any non-combat uses.
Contrast and compare this to Sonocaster which I consider the best unique weapon in the game. It deals mech damage (uniquely for energy weapons) that partially bypasses armor (making it not shit against armored targets), passes through multiple targets (unique for all guns) and has several special attacks replacing your usual fare, one of which applies daze to all its targets. On top of that it has a pure utility feature - it can destroy rocks and weak walls without the use of TNT or a Jackhammer at a fraction of the weight and cost - making it useful to any character type, even the ones that can't use guns.
If firearm uniques stood out half as much as Sonocaster there would be plenty of reasons to use them, I think.

 

[Butter]

Does anyone have a list of all the things that difficulty settings do? I remember seeing a list (maybe on the wiki) in the past but I can't find it.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Dumb question:

Did anyone here make their own UR character build based only on in-game information / official documentation?

Or did everyone just copy someone else's build from the forums?

Is it better to play on a lower difficulty and make your own build (which will inevitably be very sub-optimal and frustrating), or play on a higher difficulty and copy a build?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I like to experiment on my own with some stuff. Then there's times when I simply roleplay a character. Those are played on Normal Difficulty.

 

[jackofshadows]

Dumb question:

Did anyone here make their own UR character build based only on in-game information / official documentation?

Or did everyone just copy someone else's build from the forums?

Is it better to play on a lower difficulty and make your own build (which will inevitably be very sub-optimal and frustrating), or play on a higher difficulty and copy a build?

Depends on whether you yourself like to make new builds and experiment with them or not. If you got at least some RPG background then you absolutely can get through normal/hard blindly even if your build will end up to be indeed, sub-optimal. After you finish the game once you will know most of the skill threshholds and other such stuff so if you like to make builds yourself in general you could try DOM on your own, it's entirely possible. But if you don't like that sort of thing then just look up for builds beforehand/make adjustments. After all, the game is quite big.

I mean I don't really like to experiment with builds, rather tune them as it was for me with card games but I had no choice when Underrail came out. So I had my fun anyway but then when I got back to the game to try the expansion I looked for meta etc and turn DOM on. The experience turned out to be much better for me to tell the truth. I was focused on the game itself and not thinking all the time about starting over. And after that run I familiarised myself enough with all that stuff so I made a few my own builds for playing on DOM. Not to mention hanging out in this very thread helps a lot

Just don't go full meta right away, leave at least things beyond the build to explore by yourself.

 

[Jason Liang]

Dumb question:

Did anyone here make their own UR character build based only on in-game information / official documentation?

Or did everyone just copy someone else's build from the forums?

Is it better to play on a lower difficulty and make your own build (which will inevitably be very sub-optimal and frustrating), or play on a higher difficulty and copy a build?

The game is piss easy after you figure out the first parts.

 

[Hex]

Dumb question:

Did anyone here make their own UR character build based only on in-game information / official documentation?

Or did everyone just copy someone else's build from the forums?

Is it better to play on a lower difficulty and make your own build (which will inevitably be very sub-optimal and frustrating), or play on a higher difficulty and copy a build?

I just experimented with the hard difficulty. Dominating is possible even without being fully optimized and min-maxed. Just enjoy the game, trial and error is all part of it. Normal is quite easy for the first time and very forgiving. So is hard, but it might require a little bit more thought and meta knowledge.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I was looking just now at Chop Chop, the robot. It's amazing how much fear you can imagine from that thing.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Dumb question:

Play on normal and have fun; restart after 2-3 hours having had a taste of the mechanics, as is tradition.

 

[lukaszek]

Dumb question:

Did anyone here make their own UR character build based only on in-game information / official documentation?

Or did everyone just copy someone else's build from the forums?

Is it better to play on a lower difficulty and make your own build (which will inevitably be very sub-optimal and frustrating), or play on a higher difficulty and copy a build?

i assume that people still watching this thread create their own builds. And keep watching in case someone comes up with something interesting to get back to the game.

Even if you do your own research, you will likely feel that you are wasting your time on normal and restart on higher diff first few hours in. Unless you go completely blind, like not reading feats in advance and plan stats ahead of time i guess?

 

[Trashos]

I make my own builds. I read others' builds as well to get ideas. Sometimes my builds end up similar to what I have read, sometimes nothing like it. Different builds play differently, and once you are experienced nobody can tell you how you want to play the game.

The fist builds alone.... I have played 4 of them, 3 were very strong, and there are more builds to it as well. There is a crazy amount of good builds you can come up with in this game, and also a crazy amount of bad builds as well.

 

[Tygrende]

Point for point, any individual crafting skill provides more value—not only in combat power, but also monetary gain—than any non-crafting skill. Their contribution to combat may be indirect, but without them, your direct offensive skills will be substantially hobbled.

I'd say stealth is stronger than crafting - a build with stealth but no crafting would be overall stronger than the other way around. Temporal manipulation is a strong contender.

Mercantile should net more money in the long run than crafting just from selling reef glider and buying jet skis for cheap. Repair kits are no longer that cheap. Using disassemble to repair items is an exploit and still doesn't make the feat worth taking.

Better, yes, but not 3-5x better—like the classic >2,000 HP shield emitter that I post a screenshot of near the end of most of my playthroughs.

That's no longer possible without power management, which means spending a feat and having 7 INT, much more than just the crafting skill.

Found/bought shields have also been buffed - it's not that uncommon to find efficent shields with around 800 capacity now.

That's not to mention several unique items that are strictly superior to crafted gear or at least provide what crafting cannot - CAU armor, biohazard boots, vathosphore armor, tesla suit, spec ops helmet, trapper hat, red dragon, Balor's hammer, XAL, etc.

 

[Tygrende]

In reality the top craftsmen would NOT be of the adventuring type. Being a master craftsman at the pinnacle of what human hands and minds can achieve requires CONSTANT practice in the workshop with hardly any time to dick around high on mushroom bew. As the famous basketball proverb goes, those who stop improving have stopped being good.
There is absolutely NO argument for not having master craftsmen in the game that can for exorbitant prices and a waiting time make you top notch gear for your build. In such a situation the crafting skills would still be valuable to save money but they would not be the be all end all requirement for DOMINATING. Even on hard the lack of crafting is VERY noticable.

This is not true for a lot of what can be considered "crafting" and there are exceptions. If we consider something like modern firearms, a lot of the most influential inventors were also good shooters because it takes a good shooter to know what works and what doesn't. Jerry Miculek for example hold various world records and has also invented several firearm modifications. It doesn't take a lifetime of practice to make a rifle grip, it takes a lifetime of shooting to know what makes a grip good. Kalashnikov had no formal engineering education and did not spent most of his life as a firearm designer prior to the AK. Though Underrail doesn't model that either since there's no relation between combat and crafting skills.

 

[Tigranes]

For first playthroughs, I'd definitely recommend stealth as the one trick to make life easier. Underrail can be pretty janky and frustrating the first time.

For a Make-your-own experimental build on Hard, no skill is necessary, though you'll likely get the crafting bug for the second playthrough.

I think I'd play with the in-game speed on max (+ button) first time and then speedhack after that.

 

[Trashos]

Found/bought shields have also been buffed - it's not that uncommon to find efficent shields with around 800 capacity now.

~1000 in the Coretech shop (highest tier unlocked, multiple visits required, but I find one like that in every playthrough -best one was 1100)
I do not think I have been that lucky with looted shields. I think ~500 Capacity is the best I have looted.

 

[Jason Liang]

Which skills to take and not take should be pretty obvious almost immediately (based on your stats focus), and the game gives you an extremely generous amount of skill points.

It's feat selection (and order) that has traps and gems.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Even if you do your own research, you will likely feel that you are wasting your time on normal and restart on higher diff first few hours in. Unless you go completely blind, like not reading feats in advance and plan stats ahead of time i guess?

This is a bunch of bullshit. You can just read what the stats do, play for a bit, restart as is tradition, and play the fucking game. Research? Difficulty fiddling? None needed! Amazing!

 

[Sykar]

In reality the top craftsmen would NOT be of the adventuring type. Being a master craftsman at the pinnacle of what human hands and minds can achieve requires CONSTANT practice in the workshop with hardly any time to dick around high on mushroom bew. As the famous basketball proverb goes, those who stop improving have stopped being good.
There is absolutely NO argument for not having master craftsmen in the game that can for exorbitant prices and a waiting time make you top notch gear for your build. In such a situation the crafting skills would still be valuable to save money but they would not be the be all end all requirement for DOMINATING. Even on hard the lack of crafting is VERY noticable.

This is not true for a lot of what can be considered "crafting" and there are exceptions. If we consider something like modern firearms, a lot of the most influential inventors were also good shooters because it takes a good shooter to know what works and what doesn't. Jerry Miculek for example hold various world records and has also invented several firearm modifications. It doesn't take a lifetime of practice to make a rifle grip, it takes a lifetime of shooting to know what makes a grip good. Kalashnikov had no formal engineering education and did not spent most of his life as a firearm designer prior to the AK. Though Underrail doesn't model that either since there's no relation between combat and crafting skills.

You are missing the point. Yes sure maybe a few people can get enough skill at some point be good enough at both but you are not DOING both at the same time. Furthermore there is a difference between someone who learns shooting, something that is not particularly dangerous or strenuous, and someone ADVENTURING for extented periods in a post apocalyptic world full of terrible dangers and horrors trying to prevent a major catastrophe. Coming up, designing, testing and improving the design takes weeks if not months maybe even years of dedicatated crafting, not 10 seconds watching a bar to go from 0 to 100%. You are NOT running around all over the place doing most extreme missions AND craft all this masterful stuff which need multiple fields of science and engineering to accomplish while doing these designs, anyone who thinks that this is not outlandish is living in lala land. Even just mastering ONE field of science and engineering takes years of continuous dedication. Oh and before you get any ideas, I am aware that cRPGs do not have to be 100% realistic, just realistic enough in sufficient amount of areas to not completely break suspension of disbelief. Overall Underrail does a decent enough job at that but crafting is for sure not one of those areas.
Of course my main criticism is not really adressed by this since there is NO justification for there not be other master craftsmen in the world who are as good if not better than you, zero zilch nada.

 

[ciox]

I mean Underrail does simulate that to some degree, if you invest in Intelligence you will craft better things sooner, but be a weaker fighter.
It's just that the balance is skewed towards you eventually crafting awesome things even without heavy initial investment, because skill points and other bonuses will slowly add up even for a very stupid character.
This freedom makes the game better in the end, the fact that you don't encounter too many hard caps like "must be level X to use" or "must have intelligence Y to cast" in the game, allowing you to mix specializations, is part of why people have so much fun with it.

 

[Trashos]

So, it is indeed possible that neither Coral nor Booth are in the game. 2nd playthrough where this is happening to me. Too bad, because I restart the game until Coral is absent (from SGS docks) in hope that Booth will be present in Core City.

There is a new... place for Ghostface to be found as random loot. New at least for me. I had never seen it there before, but lately I find it often. I will let you discover it for yourselves, it is not hidden.

 

[Blaine]

I'd say stealth is stronger than crafting - a build with stealth but no crafting would be overall stronger than the other way around.

I wholly disagree. AR tin can with crafting skills is absurdly strong, even after the ver. 1.0.4 invention of the "unconditional special attack," transparently intended solely to nerf AR burst attacks (which was needed, as the damage was insane). Stealth with crafting is just as strong, in very different ways. Both have their weaknesses.

Stealth without crafting would be less strong than either. In my latest playthrough, I very clearly remember that crafting specific fine-tuned SMGs with crafting-maximized damage and precise AP cost thresholds and tradeoffs took my build not only to the next level, but beyond. Good luck buying the perfect complementary gear for your character sheet plan without crafting skills—you'll never find it. The game hasn't changed enough in six months (or since pre-release for that matter) for this to have altered substantially.

Found/bought shields have also been buffed - it's not that uncommon to find efficent shields with around 800 capacity now.

Less than half the capacity, and not as efficient nor its frequency thresholds as high—the crafted one therefore being about three times better. You're right though, that's still a step up from crafted being five times better.

I mentioned previously that the gap between crafted and bought/looted gear has narrowed a bit as the game's been updated—but at the same time, the relative investment into crafting skills needed to hit keystone thresholds has been reduced by an increased level cap, crafting benches, and hypercerebrix (I personally never spammed pre-nerf Junkyard Surprise to buff crafting, that clearly verges into exploit territory).

So yes, found/bought gear isn't complete rubbish now, but the investment needed to craft supergear is overall lower than it once was pre-expansion.

That's not to mention several unique items that are strictly superior to crafted gear or at least provide what crafting cannot - CAU armor, biohazard boots, vathosphore armor, tesla suit, spec ops helmet, trapper hat, red dragon, Balor's hammer, XAL, etc.

That stuff is all well and good, but may require meta knowledge to plan a build around (Balor's Hammer being the prime example), be entirely missed during a playthrough (Spec Ops helmet, which is a stealth-based item you'll ironically only see if you bungle and alert the base), be acquired near the end of progression, are highly specific gimmicks, etc.

I have noticed that more unique items have been added in the latest update and others have been tweaked. That really doesn't alter the overall crafting power dynamic, though.