Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Blaine]

Having finally gotten around to starting Expedition, I'm forcibly reminded once again of its many... uh... eccentricities.

On the conceptual side, the concept of a horde of drug-fueled tribal natives pouring forth from their landing boats and assaulting a few gunmen and snipers under crossbow cover isn't bad, per se. Probably the natives will be gunned down, but it would only take a few of their muscular brutes getting through to end the expedition permanently.

The biggest problem, and one that I believe has been mentioned before, is that without the player's assistance, the expedition would be utterly annihilated. The Sec-Troopers would mill about uselessly, missing most of the time, until some chalk-white Chad sprinted up and punched their wussy intestines out the back of their stupid uniforms.

This is a problem because the guys in charge of the expedition treat you like a buck private, a gopher, a little bitch, glorified hump boy, etc., despite the fact that you not only can kill them all without breaking a sweat and are carrying their entire enterprise on your shoulders, but even the native assaults were designed with the expedition's incompetence in mind.

This breaks the fourth wall. They should either have badass soldiers just like you who can blow away the snake Nazis with no assistance from you, or else they should start kissing your ass almost immediately. It's not like at the beginning of the game, when Gorsky really could kick your ass, and you really were still green around the gills and clueless.

Then there's the stupidity of natives with crossbows being able to shoot at you without you, a sniper in my case this time, even being able to see them at all due to what I hope is an insurmountable technical limitation.

Anyway, it's all a moot point, because I'm joining the pirates, the best faction in Expedition.

 

[Trashos]

If you do not show up for the attacks (which you can do after the 1st one), Aegis can survive several attacks without your help. Not sure how many, haven't really done a serious test, but certainly a few. If you show up, then it is handled differently for gameplay purposes I guess.

On Dominating, the 1st attack (where participation is mandatory) is relatively easy, and Aegis will probably handle it even if you stick yourself to the NW corner and try not to participate unless they reach you. But things get progressively harder with each attack if you don't prepare seriously (traps, camp defenses, tactics etc).

 

[ciox]

Having finally gotten around to starting Expedition, I'm forcibly reminded once again of its many... uh... eccentricities.

On the conceptual side, the concept of a horde of drug-fueled tribal natives pouring forth from their landing boats and assaulting a few gunmen and snipers under crossbow cover isn't bad, per se. Probably the natives will be gunned down, but it would only take a few of their muscular brutes getting through to end the expedition permanently.

The biggest problem, and one that I believe has been mentioned before, is that without the player's assistance, the expedition would be utterly annihilated. The Sec-Troopers would mill about uselessly, missing most of the time, until some chalk-white Chad sprinted up and punched their wussy intestines out the back of their stupid uniforms.

This is a problem because the guys in charge of the expedition treat you like a buck private, a gopher, a little bitch, glorified hump boy, etc., despite the fact that you not only can kill them all without breaking a sweat and are carrying their entire enterprise on your shoulders, but even the native assaults were designed with the expedition's incompetence in mind.

This breaks the fourth wall. They should either have badass soldiers just like you who can blow away the snake Nazis with no assistance from you, or else they should start kissing your ass almost immediately. It's not like at the beginning of the game, when Gorsky really could kick your ass, and you really were still green around the gills and clueless.

Then there's the stupidity of natives with crossbows being able to shoot at you without you, a sniper in my case this time, even being able to see them at all due to what I hope is an insurmountable technical limitation.

Anyway, it's all a moot point, because I'm joining the pirates, the best faction in Expedition.

It's just the general theme of the game, not too dissimilar from how you get called a stinky tribal all the way through Fallout 2, your Enclave Powered Armor and Bozar be damned.

 

[ItsChon]

I didn't get that feeling of being treated as a grunt despite your immense power and contributions,at really any point in the game. In the beginning of the expedition, you're an unknown variable, and there clearly is a command structure already in place. You literally just got to the island, and they haven't seen you in action, so they don't know if you're legit or not. Once you deal with the first native attack, open up some ruins, and help recover Professor Oldfield, it's clear that you're considered to be one of the senior expedition members. They are given your own Jet Ski (they give it to you even despite the fact that you're not a permanent member), and are allowed to come and go as you please with faith that you will go about accomplishing your mission objective. When the camp is attacked and they request assistance, you have enough authority to let them know you are too busy dealing with your mission, and that is given priority over the literal defense and existence of the expedition itself. Seems pretty senior to me. This applies in almost all aspects of the game. In SGS you gradually become more and more senior, with them offering you a leadership position by the end of it all. You become pretty influential in both the Free Drones and Protectorate quest lines, and even in the Foundry you're given a decent amount of rights, freedom, and influence, as you go about establishing yourself as a capable and trustworthy individual.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I wrote an earlier post about this whole thing which I considered the Aegis Expedition akin to the first expeditionary british army fighting the zulus: completely overconfident, hopelessly outnumbered, destined to be utterly wiped out due to lack of preparation and said arrogance.

 

[Blaine]

Interesting counterpoints. I myself got the distinct impression that if not for my traps, gas grenades, and undisputed MVP status with regard to actually killing Sormirbaeren, even the first wave would have wiped the defending forces out handily. It could also just be that I generally resent having to babysit the expedition in perpetuity, and that this colors my perception of it.

In my first game after the expansion was released, I stuck with the expedition through to the end, and... well, actually, I now forget the particulars of the "expedition doesn't die" ending. I also showed up for every native defense, and made the mistake of playing a non-stealth melee character.

Encountering the mantis spam marks the biggest attitude adjustment I've ever experienced since before the game was released. I originally thought people were over-exaggerating the annoyance of mantis spam, just as I've always thought that DC complainers were over-exaggerating about DC, even after I finished it. Boy, was I wrong. I went from thinking they were over-exaggerating to believing they were severely under-exaggerating in order to spare Styg's feelings. I'm still salty about it, and the sound of mantis spit induces a figurative facial tic.

 

[jackofshadows]

Both DC and hive complainers are weaklings.

 

[Blaine]

Both DC and hive complainers are weaklings.

The complaints about hives have nothing to do with difficulty, as you well know, and everything to do with the inescapable tedium and annoyance of how long it takes all of the locusts deployed from a hive to move and execute their numerous attacks every single turn—which is virtually intolerable without cranking movement and combat speed to the maximum, and is barely tolerable even at maximum speed, even when carpet-bombing as many locusts as possible as often as possible.

This is most noticeable when playing non-stealth melee builds, and that's where they're a real problem.

I have yet to encounter a credible or sensible defense of this implementation.

 

[Tacgnol]

Both DC and hive complainers are weaklings.

The complaints about hives have nothing to do with difficulty, as you well know, and everything to do with the inescapable tedium and annoyance of how long it takes all of the locusts deployed from a hive to move and execute their numerous attacks every single turn—which is virtually intolerable without cranking movement and combat speed to the maximum, and is barely tolerable even at maximum speed, even when carpet-bombing as many locusts as possible as often as possible.

This is most noticeable when playing non-stealth melee builds, and that's where they're a real problem.

I have yet to encounter a credible or sensible defense of this implementation.

Definitely the worst part of the playthrough I just finished. DC was perfectly fine, but the locusts were infuriating.

They pose almost zero threat and feel as if they are there purely to pad the playtime.

 

[Blaine]

The one thing I do like about locusts is that you can swap to an "exterminator" loadout (anti-bio gear, gas grenades, incendiaries) and have a bit of fun playing at being an exterminator. If you plan carefully, you can gas, burn, and squash them fairly efficiently.

However, this is quite difficult to pull off properly in most screens unless you're stealthy, especially when one considers the delay of gas grenades; if you have no innate skill, you'll need decent black clothing and a cloaking device to get situated. Frankly, having to swap to an artificially-supported pseudo-build in order to counter an obnoxious gimmick isn't my idea of good gameplay or encounter design, but at least it's a possibility. I don't think artificial stealth is ever enough to TNT the nests, sadly, but my last several builds have had innate stealth, so I'm not sure.

 

[Blaine]

Almost enough Detection to detect Death Stalkers in a timely manner, just need some Third Eye and I'll be good to go.

 

[Blaine]

Game's just about over at this point from a build and itemization standpoint. With >100 MP, >300 Stealth, 12 Agility, and 15 Perception, I will bring a sniper through DC and over the finish line for the first time, shitting out traps the entire way with Trap Expert and Interloper +10.

All in all, I'd say I enjoyed Spec Ops Expertise SMG more, primarily because I could work my way through an area in total silence—luring enemies into traps is powerful and fun, but whereas silent kills are at best difficult for this sniper, Spec Ops Expertise SMG guy could also easily lure enemies into trap setups. SMG lacks the ability to kill from a great distance, but I've found that this is rarely a tremendous advantage.

 

[Sykar]

Sniper does have the advantage of ammo efficiency and needing less repair kits. With a good 50 AP sniper you can one shot even bosses which is fun imho.

 

[Parabalus]

Both DC and hive complainers are weaklings.

Stealth abuser detected.

 

[Sykar]

Stealth is master race!

Now let the conlet memes begin!

 

[Parabalus]

Real conlets don't run stealth.

 

[Sykar]

Surprisingly funny summary of the game:

 

[jackofshadows]

virtually intolerable without cranking movement and combat speed to the maximum, and is barely tolerable even at maximum speed, even when carpet-bombing as many locusts as possible as often as possible.

This is most noticeable when playing non-stealth melee builds, and that's where they're a real problem.

That's an issue but a minor one: speedhack is advised on consequent runs. Why all builds should be perfectly balanced? Melee in general suck in Expedition but I don't think that's a bad thing.

Nice new icons, didn't open this screen yet heh.

Stealth abuser detected.

How is that fair for DC? Just use those manholes in a timely manner. It's much more convinient to just skip some hives with stealth I agree, but some are easier to kill anyway, like on islands around etc.

 

[Blaine]

That's an issue but a minor one: speedhack is advised on consequent runs.

If you need a speedhack to work around something, then that something is clearly a problem.

Why all builds should be perfectly balanced?

This isn't about game balance. Being punished with purely physical tedium and annoyance because you chose an otherwise perfectly viable and enjoyable build is an issue entirely separate from the actual game mechanics. It's a format/presentation issue, a consequence of implementing numerous enemies that each move long distances and perform many actions in a turn-based game.

Melee in general suck in Expedition but I don't think that's a bad thing.

Expedition introduced two new melee weapons with their own dedicated feat lines and related gear, and you don't think that's a bad thing?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Jesus not every build is gonna be awesome at everything.

But TINCAN AR MAN will never ever suck.

 

[Sykar]

 

[jackofshadows]

If you need a speedhack to work around something, then that something is clearly a problem.

First, see it this way: backtracking imo is a massive Underrail's issue consequent runs wise. Speedhack helps with that but not by much. But you wouldn't want to change design of many quests to negate that, right? Second, once player figures out the hive mechanic and develops an according tactic of course he'd want to speed up that process at least via in-game sliders. Compared to some of newer releases like Solasta or Encased where you want to apply said sliders/hack onto entire game that's nothing.

Expedition introduced two new melee weapons with their own dedicated feat lines and related gear, and you don't think that's a bad thing?

Well, that applied to the whole game. At the same time the sea Expedition creatures are not in a hurry to close the distance and fight face to face, are they? Every Almost (goddamned ARs) every weapon has its upsides and downsides - that's fine.

 

[Blaine]

First, see it this way: backtracking imo is a massive Underrail's issue consequent runs wise. Speedhack helps with that but not by much. But you wouldn't want to change design of many quests to negate that, right?

I don't entirely disagree, and indeed, years back I defended the large rooms and backtracking on that very basis.

Frankly, though, locusts are just one type of encounter in one part of the game, albeit they are unique and interesting. However, the nests are absolutely everywhere. What you need to consider is that combat is supposed to be the fun part of this game, not a torture test (maybe a torture test in terms of getting DOMINATED, but it should be enjoyable to play). I continue to feel strongly that locusts somehow should have been implemented differently on a technical level. The concept is fine, but the implementation is at odds with the game's format.

Or in short, locusts are cool, but they clearly aren't worth the hassle for most people.

Every Almost (goddamned ARs) every weapon has its upsides and downsides - that's fine.

Like ARs, SMGs have few downsides, other than possessing substantially lower optimal range than ARs—but in return, they can be built to massacre an entire roomful of enemies silently.

In my opinion, what really makes automatic weapons powerful in Underrail is the fact that they smooth over RNG, both in terms of individual bullets striking their targets and also critical hits. When using a sniper rifle, if you miss, you can go fuck yourself; and when not using cooldowns, if you don't crit, you can usually also go fuck yourself. When employing ARs and SMGs, fewer hits and/or crits can make a difference, but you aren't completely fucked just because you rolled a 1.

Actually, guns in general rule the roost. PER's side benefits, such as detecting stealthed enemies and traps (vital, since there are crawlers and coil spiders everywhere later on in the game), handily outweigh the side benefits of all other base attributes. Not a single type of firearm has any issue whatsoever breaching armor, including chemical blob pistols, despite the recent W2C nerf; whereas crossbows and throwing knives get absolutely hosed. Melee seems to be a mixed bag in that regard, and it's a been a few playthroughs since my spear guy, so I can't comment much on them.

 

[Tigranes]

I'm just relieved that you can skip most of the "may infuriate you" content, except for DC. I'm never bothering with Phreak or the Hives dungeon after the first time, and same goes for music puzzle. I also tend to skip the remote controlled robot quest early game as I find it tedious. You can ignore the Aegis defences entirely and they'll usually be fine, especially if you give them a Naga. And so on.

 

[Blaine]

You can skip DC as well, should you really wish to. That reminds me: Are there alternate routes down into DC now, or is it still railroaded (heh) through the one available route? During this playthrough, it really started to bother me that there's exactly one way into the Institute, exactly one way for the confrontation and interaction with Efreitor Denzil to play out, and essentially exactly one way down to DC. The only alternative is to start killing everyone in sight, which is an option all throughout the game in every location without Six in it.

It's all so one-dimensional. I'd like to see multiple ways to infiltrate the Institute, and multiple ways to reach DC. There have been a lot of changes to the game in the past year or so, and I'm hoping some alternative approaches have been added.

Anyway, here's my absolutely-final-no-fooling sniper build: https://underrail.info/build/?HgUGC...dMTV_fjMWSwImR0DCtcKkwqbDjOKgsgrir7wE4q-9Ad-_

Can't decide whether to stick with Strider or take one of the many, many useful feats still open to me such as Sure Step, Quick Pockets, Pack Rathound, Gun Nut, Power Management after all (probably not), one final Guns-related feat (like Commando or Leading Shot) to allow me to branch out from sniper rifles a little more usefully with firearms like the Refurb Steyr-Auch or a 5 STR combat shottie—the possibilities are endless. Lastly there are Blindsiding (though I doubt I'll want/need it), Gun Nut, hell, even Major Supplier. I reckon I'd go for Blindsiding over Gun Nut since Gun Nut is essentially a 7.5% damage increase, whereas Blindsiding is essentially double that, though only on the first turn out of stealth; but front-loaded damage behooves snipers.

Finally, it took me most of the game, but I've realized that you can now confiscate everyone's fishing rods from stealth and set up your own in their place. This actually allows you to leave 2-3 rods set up in strategic waters at all times once you've stolen and bought enough rods.