Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Blaine]

My total fishing rod collection is up to an even 60. You can grab 10-12 rods per complete merchant run, depending on whether or not you remember you're trying to accumulate fishing rods.

I'm also going to test this thing out, and compare to the Steyr-Auch. Nominal damage potential without crits is in excess of 300 per shell on average (taking into account 6p percentage and Guns skill damage bonus), so approximately 1200 per burst, provided of course that every pellet hits. I can still reach 50% total crit chance with Seeker Goggles, my feats, and a Focus Stim, although the crit bonus is rubbish. If I feel I prefer it to the Steyr-Auch, I'll probably take Leading Shot as my level 30 feat. Otherwise, I suppose I'll go with either Commando or Suppressive Fire (I already have Opportunist) and stick with the Steyr-Auch.

I used a semi-auto shotgun as a sidearm during the early game, and it worked well except when enemies had exceptional Evasion. It still worked okay then, but "you must buy Leading Shot if you're maining a shotgun" is an apparent factor.

 

[Blaine]

Locusts BTFO.

Snipe doesn't rely on criticals to deal damage, so despite hives being immune to critical hits, deleting them from afar is easy. Then I simply toss a magnesium grenade onto the deployments and use a 7.62mm Rapid Jaguar LS to pick off any stragglers/survivors—virtually all of whom will then be lit up for Ambush.

If things go wrong, or there's a second nest nearby that deploys, well, I'm wearing infused hopper gear and I have Sprint and Jumping Bean. See ya!

 

[Blaine]

In an interesting twist, it turns out that Aegis and the Serpentborn employ very similar strategy and tactics. In a better world, perhaps they could have set aside their differences, learned from one another, and lived together in harmony.

We may never know.

Spoiler

What I do know is that I've probably never before combined a Frag Grenade Mk IV with a Frag Mine Mk IV so spectacularly.

 

[ItsChon]

I can't get an exact reading right now because I don't have the materials, but I'm going to put together a Super String q160+ Tornado at some point, and I absolutely assure you the damage per bolt will be no more than 25-30% higher than a single bullet fired from the Steyr-Auch, and with an additional 125% mech resistance penalty, as well as only 3/4 the optimal. Crossbows truly were designed to cause suffering in this game, by someone who has likely never laid hands on a crossbow.

Yes, the range even of 9mm Parabellum fired from a carbine is much greater than that of a broadhead bolt, but if ranges were actually realistic in this game, a novice would be able to fire a sniper rifle accurately from one corner of a screen in Foundry to the other. An expert would be able to fire a precision rifle accurately from one side of all of Foundry to the other.

Meanwhile, I challenge anyone to hunt a deer with potshots from a Steyr AUG 9mm conversion.

I just can't let it go. I don't want crossbows to be shit, it really annoys me.

It's not as simplistic as you're making it seem. First of all, Crossbows are stealthy while AR bullets are not. Second of all, Crossbow bolts can be outfitted with multiple different types of utility so that you can deal with a large variety of situations and enemy types. Third of all, Crossbow bolts operate at a different velocity and are not subject to ballistic plate bullet penalties, which is very important when dealing with energy shields and different types of armor. All three of these things are benefits the Crossbow has over the AR, and they aren't insignificant. They are archetype and scenario defining differences that provides a ton of RP and dungeon design potential to the game. Styg sadly hasn't incorporate many bosses that are specifically geared towards dealing with one style, or if he has, he has done so at a lower degree than is possible, and the same thing can be said of dungeons that are geared towards specific play styles, but Underrail's systems are so well designed that such things are possible. Not every build is going to be as good as another. Crossbows have their own niche and can be quite strong. You trigger me every time you make these comparisons that have nothing to do with anything, as if they're giving credence to your personal vendetta against crossbows.

 

[Blaine]

It's not as simplistic as you're making it seem.

I've been fuming about Crossbows for going on eight years. You will lose this debate, because I've considered the issue from all angles.

First of all, Crossbows are stealthy while AR bullets are not.

This is the perennial justification for Crossbows' inferiority, but the problem is that Crossbows aren't good enough at killing quietly to justify their incredible disadvantages. The bolts around which the weapon is actually balanced—the ones that pop, fizz, and zap—are not quiet. Regular bolts and special bolts that are silent are a joke compared to the damage output of, say, a silenced Spec Ops SMG, a gunslinger's pistol, various silent and 100% accurate psi combinations, et cetera, not to mention sniper rifles, which can actually kill four or five enemies in one go using no special crafting components whatsoever, even though they don't do so quietly.

If five bodies fall in a room, and no one is around to hear the shots, have I achieved stealth? We don't need the Ferryman to figure that one out.

Second of all, Crossbow bolts can be outfitted with multiple different types of utility so that you can deal with a large variety of situations and enemy types. Third of all, Crossbow bolts operate at a different velocity and are not subject to ballistic plate bullet penalties, which is very important when dealing with energy shields and different types of armor.

In one breath, you describe the fact that Crossbows can be fired stealthily; in the next, you describe all the whiz, bang, pop, and fizz they're capable of. This is because, unless there is only one or at most two enemies present, noisy hostilities will inevitably commence when relying on Crossbows. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

Ballistic plate penalties are largely irrelevant when employing W2C ammo against enemies' mediocre armor statistics, even after the nerf. My 5mm Expertise Jaguar could obliterate a tin can in one burst while attracting absolutely zero of his pals from the next room over. Also, crossbow bolts incur mechanical resistance maluses at all times, almost like reverse hollow points. And that is their biggest weakness: Crossbows are absolute garbage versus heavy armor.

Nor am I impressed by impact speed energy shield penetration, because when using a non-gimped stealth or ambush weapon to attack enemies, they usually don't even get a chance to turn the shield on; and if they do, I'll EMP them. Of course, when using Crossbows, you might not have an EMP grenade available, because your slots will occupied by all the noisy bolts you'll inevitably have to use in the non-stealthy pitched battle that will follow the subpar ambush burst capability of Crossbows.

All three of these things are benefits the Crossbow has over the AR, and they aren't insignificant. They are archetype and scenario defining differences that provides a ton of RP and dungeon design potential to the game.

One of the side benefits to specializing in a weapon type from the Guns category is that all of the many other types of Guns-related weapons are available to you, including chemical and energy pistols, albeit unspecialized or partially synergized/specialized. With Crossbows, you spend the same amount of skill points and have access to... Crossbows. My endgame sniper is able to erase sea serpents with a sidearm AR or shotgun with absolutely no additional feats whatsoever.

The issue with Crossbows is that they're mediocre in every way, and have a very significant weakness (heavy armor) shared by very few other entire weapon skill categories. Their vaunted utility and versatility come at the cost of crossbows being the only weapon archetype for the Crossbows skill, as well as special bolts hogging utility slots and eating feats like candy. Crossbows excel at nothing. They can't run the table on a field of enemies like a sniper rifle can, they can't systematically and silently burst down a tight group of enemies in a small room like an SMG can, they can't rake an entire enemy platoon like an AR can, and the special bolts are arguably not as strong as top-tier grenades despite hogging the utility slots—let alone psi powers.

Add to this that poisons and bleed are the only other real avenue beyond pop and fizz bolts, in this game where your body count often needs to be at least one per turn... yikes.

A crossbow is basically a gimped (far less damage and range, no Shooting Spree) sniper rifle, justified by the fact that it's quiet, combined with a gimped hybridization of psi powers and grenades tacked on, justified by... the fact that they'd be totally unusuable without them, I suppose.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Crossbows aren't weak against armour. Shock bolts do several hundred electric damage on crits, and they stun on top of that. You can open with a molotov to start ambush and then spam several thousand electric damage worth of bolts before anyone is allowed to move. They could be completely immune to mechanical damage and they'd still die. Unless they're a naga or a psi crab, but you can take them with acid. Better make it rusting or corrosive acid for the nagas though. But by the time you're fighting nagas you can probably make mk3 emp grenades and keep them stunned for effectively forever so whatever.

 

[Blaine]

Crossbows aren't weak against armour. Shock bolts do several hundred electric damage on crits, and they stun on top of that. You can open with a molotov to start ambush and then spam several thousand electric damage worth of bolts before anyone is allowed to move. They could be completely immune to mechanical damage and they'd still die. Unless they're a naga or a psi crab, but you can take them with acid. Better make it rusting or corrosive acid for the nagas though. But by the time you're fighting nagas you can probably make mk3 emp grenades and keep them stunned for effectively forever so whatever.

I'll grant you this: I haven't played a Crossbows build since before crossbows were buffed. I played them the hard way, prior to the existence of the Elemental Bolts feat, the Ambush feat, or acid bolts. My next playthrough, aggravating though I anticipate it to be, will need to be a Crossbows playthrough.

Everything you've just described relies on the use of grenades. Crossbows are optimized for Traps synergy, they're supposed to be somewhat stealthy, and special bolts compete for utility slots, so relying on loud-ass grenades and the ever-popular Ambush to prop up crossbows is a suspect defense of the weapon at best. If I'm using grenades and alerting the entire zone anyway, why in the fuck do I need a supposedly silent crossbow?

Realistically, Ambush empowers all ranged weapons, not just crossbows, while grenades add heavy AoE damage to any build. That whole scenario you just described only proves the power of Ambush and grenades, not the power of crossbows. My sniper has Ambush and uses grenades, but frequently gets by without them. I can kill a Naga Protector with a single round of ammunition that Kevin in Foundry sells by the dozen. I don't need to use crates of grenades and an endless stream of molotovs to activate Ambush in order to constantly prop up a severely underpowered weapon. I use traps and grenades very sparingly, except when "fighting the entire town" (as in my screenshot above).

A Shock Bolt Mk III dispenser that relies heavily on independent sources of additional damage really just goes to show that Crossbows has failed on a conceptual level. You might as well be using a 40mm grenade launcher at that point. The way crossbows were originally conceived to be used doesn't fit how Underrail actually plays in practice... at least, not for the player character. In the hands of enemies, crossbows can be quite potent, because poisons mean a lot more to the player, as do energy shields (depending on build), and getting surprised by a stealthed crossbowman can hurt due to the fact that you're just one human being, not a horde of enemies.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Well, you don't have to use ambush if you don't want to. You can sacrifice a little perception and go survival instincts. You can go deadly snares. You can just stack crit chance equipment if you want, even if that's not totally reliable.
I don't really care how crossbows were originally conceived, I care about how they are now. I want them to be good enough to finish the game on dominating, and to play differently enough from other weapon types to be interesting. And I think they do both of those things, so in my opinion they're okay.

 

[Parabalus]

If a build has to use grenades, traps and/or stealth that means it is inherently weak.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

I mean, maybe, but if said weak build can still finish the game on dom as long as it uses those easily available grenades/traps/stealth then what's the problem?
Also I said you could go survival instincts for your crit chance anyway. Or use incendiary bolts and hope for the 50% ignite to use enemies as light sources. Or use flares, they're not grenades. Or go versatility and use lemurian blaster as a flaregun in your second weapon slot, since you don't really need a second crossbow. Ambush gets boosted by stealth skill but it's not like you need to actually enter stealth mode.

 

[ItsChon]

This is the perennial justification for Crossbows' inferiority, but the problem is that Crossbows aren't good enough at killing quietly to justify their incredible disadvantages. The bolts around which the weapon is actually balanced—the ones that pop, fizz, and zap—are not quiet.

Could be mistaken, but as far as I know, only the shock bolt makes a sound. The acid and fire bolts are silent, which allows you to proc elemental bolts and assassinate people quietly. This point is moot.

Regular bolts and special bolts that are silent are a joke compared to the damage output of, say, a silenced Spec Ops SMG, a gunslinger's pistol, various silent and 100% accurate psi combinations, et cetera, not to mention sniper rifles, which can actually kill four or five enemies in one go using no special crafting components whatsoever, even though they don't do so quietly.

If five bodies fall in a room, and no one is around to hear the shots, have I achieved stealth? We don't need the Ferryman to figure that one out.

I haven't fully played a silenced Spec Ops SMG, but gunslingers and snipers are not stealthy options, and psionics have no stealthy ways of dealing with robotic enemies. Crossbows have their own niche, and they fill it well. They're the only form of nonpsionic, stealth weaponry that functions at a distance. With the requisite feats and an adrenaline shot, you're able to shoot your weapon crossbow six times, with the possibility to kill on every shot if the crits go your way, with an average of three to five kills to be expected with average RNG. That's quite on par with Sniper Rifles. Do so while utilizing shock bolts/incendiary bolts, and whether you get a kill or not, you'll be in no danger when dealing with said enemies in the following turn. I just tested this on my saved XBow build on Dominating, so on hard I'm sure it would be even more powerful. Also, in places where stealth is important, the Ironheads Warehouse Depots for example, it doens't matter if you can kill six enemies in one turn if you blow your load. The alarm is going to get sounded, and have fun dealing with the following enemies that are going to come after you/plague you in the following maps. That's just one example, and as I said before, Underrail's system can easily facilitate more such dungeons/encounters, which would only increase the value of crossbows.

In one breath, you describe the fact that Crossbows can be fired stealthily; in the next, you describe all the whiz, bang, pop, and fizz they're capable of. This is because, unless there is only one or at most two enemies present, noisy hostilities will inevitably commence when relying on Crossbows. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

You're literallty talking out of your ass. I have an Elemental Bolts Crossbow build at level 25 on Dominating in my save game files as we speak that's far from optimal, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this is not true. You literally admitted later on in this thread that the last time you played a Crossbow build was ages ago. Three to four enemies can easily be dispatched with some regularity (more with good RNG), and without having to use broken feats like ambush or survival instincts. It can all be done completely quietly, without the use of any traps/shockbolts.

The issue with Crossbows is that they're mediocre in every way, and have a very significant weakness (heavy armor) shared by very few other entire weapon skill categories. Their vaunted utility and versatility come at the cost of crossbows being the only weapon archetype for the Crossbows skill, as well as special bolts hogging utility slots and eating feats like candy. Crossbows excel at nothing. They can't run the table on a field of enemies like a sniper rifle can, they can't systematically and silently burst down a tight group of enemies in a small room like an SMG can, they can't rake an entire enemy platoon like an AR can, and the special bolts are arguably not as strong as top-tier grenades despite hogging the utility slots—let alone psi powers.

Spark Mandriller already explaine why this is not true. Crossbows have no problem dealing with heavy armor, and them being the only weapon in their skills category should not be counted against their effectiveness in combat. Not to mention the fact that I dislike using weapons that aren't what my build was designed around anyway.
I already explained how Crossbows can easily "run the table" just like a sniper rifle can, and the gameplay style of Crossbows is completely different from SMGs/ARs, so them not being able to burst down hordes of enemies has nothing to do with anything. As for combat utilities taking up "valuable" utility spaces, Acid is very situational and you only have Shock/Incendiary Bolts taking up two out of four of your utility slots, with the possibility of up to three free slots with the correct belt/feat. There is a ton of builds that make do with that many utility slots the entire game, thus nullifying another one of your "cons".

You freely admit to being ignorant to the recent state of Crossbows in the meta, and then proceed to make sweeping claims about how they're shit and not worth using. Crossbows don't have to be the strongest archetype in the game for them to be considered worth using, or fun to play, so your comparisons are useless. The archetype is quite strong, and can easily finish dominating with average optimization. Play the updated builds, and then come talk to me.

 

[lukaszek]

If a build has to use grenades, traps and/or stealth that means it is inherently weak.

its builds that need to rely on weapon attacks are weak

 

[Tigranes]

OK fine lukaszek I did it just for you

 

[Twiglard]

Results of initial deployment:

View attachment 23537

Translated, that's key components for three doses of Third Eye, three Supersoldier Drugs, two vials of Regenerative Mixture, two doses of Bullhead, a vial of Black Dragon Poison, and various fodder for Super Health Hypos (of which Crawler Poison is the real gatekeeper), mass quantities of Jumping Beans, and also some shit no one cares about.

Can you make the Supersoldier Drug or any other endgame drugs before DC now? The wiki says it requires tchortling brains.

 

[Blaine]

Could be mistaken, but as far as I know, only the shock bolt makes a sound. The acid and fire bolts are silent, which allows you to proc elemental bolts and assassinate people quietly. This point is moot.

It's not a moot point when shock bolts are clearly the elemental bolt that Crossbows players rely on the most, and the ones used to justify the current balancing of the weapon.

I haven't fully played a silenced Spec Ops SMG, but gunslingers and snipers are not stealthy options, and psionics have no stealthy ways of dealing with robotic enemies.

With Spec Ops SMG, you can clear every single Ironhead out of Warehouse Block Beta without any of them knowing you were there or what hit them.

Gunslingers absolutely are stealthy if using a silenced pistol, and I'm sure there are plenty of builds that could take out a roomful of enemies with one.

Snipers aren't quiet, and neither are crossbows when using noisy bolts, such as the shock bolt you yourself used as an example of how crossbows can clear a room.

Except a sniper rifle can clear a whole-ass screen. The enemies needn't be bunched together to stack shock bolts onto.

 

[lukaszek]

OK fine lukaszek I did it just for you

took my brofist away after realizing that there likely was some cave wizardry in play

 

[Tigranes]

You god damn knife fundie fight me and my rusty appendage

 

[Blaine]

Can you make the Supersoldier Drug or any other endgame drugs before DC now? The wiki says it requires tchortling brains.

You can make Regenerative Mixture thanks to the Tchortists and Grim Jetters, provided you can pass the Mercantile check to access their special merchandise.

Investigator Vuk sells Biofusive Scoby and Clean Blastema, and Katya sells Biofusive Scoby and Muscarine. Prednisone Solution does indeed appear to be DC-exclusive, so in terms of Supersoldier Drug, you're limited to the very few doses you can buy (2 from Ladelman's special merchandise) or find.

Furthermore, Investigator Vuk always sells one Crawler Poison Gland per refresh, and Becket (Free Drones) sometimes sells one dose of prepared Crawler Poison. This is helpful, since in an entire 100+ hour playthrough you might end up with about 30ish vials of Crawler Poison due to the fact that they have an MMO-tier drop rate, even though you have to fight hundreds of the fucking things. My vague guess is that the drop rate of the poison glands is around 10%.

Short list of things to always buy on sight, no matter what stage of the game you may be in or how broke you are:

• Crawler Poison/Gland
• Napalm C
• Image Intensifier Tube
• Pentapus (if you can craft Psionic Reinvigorators)
• rare acids

 

[Blaine]

Stygian Software "balancing" in action:

These jets are essentially identical, and with identical parts in the comparison, but with tweaks. The Cruiser has 33% more HP, 5% more cover, and +10% DR/+10 DT; the Patroller has a 7% higher speed modifier (you would need a computer program to measure the realtime speed difference during play) and 5% more Maneuverability. Basically, you'd only be able to notice the slight benefit of using the Patroller if you're melee, whereas the substantial malus to survivability is very noticeable. All things considered, the Cruiser is straight-up better. According to the Wiki's heavily outdated info, the Patroller may have had 375 HP at one point. No doubt this was changed for some bizarre reason, most likely because, as an Aegis quest reward, Styg decided it was "too good" compared to purchased jets. That's just a guess.

"Well, the Patroller's probably made more cheaply," I can anticipate someone suggesting. Don't even start with that shit.

Also, my choice of the XG Beta 3.5 and BArm Lightstep 250 engines is no accident. These two green-quality engines provide 600 power for 80.00 weight and 200 consumption, whereas the BArm Hauler 600, a blue-quality large engine, provides 600 power for 100.00 weight and 260 consumption. BALANCE! In any case, in the real world, one large engine will always be more efficient than two independent engines working in tandem when producing the same amount of work, given the same technological framework. You can't even use the excuse that the smaller engines are made better, because the Hauler 600 is a higher-quality engine. BALANCE!

On the plus side, the Cruiser remains the best all-rounder in the game. It excels at nothing, but has penultimate (that is, one step from the best; if you're a pirate, might as well be the best, easy to 100%) stability, penultimate survivability, good and very customizable speed/haulage/consumption ratios, and you actually get paid to take one when you strip the loot off the useless tin cans you mowed down in order to access it.

Anyway, I'm pretty grumpy because the Freighter now constantly drops its tow cable on all jets in all conditions when going in a straight line unless I slow it down to a total crawl by putting in a tiny engine and overloading it. I know that I'd be asked to provide a save file and a DXDiag, etc., but it likely won't do any good, because I'm 99% sure I already know the reason: The updated game engine allows me to run the game at a higher refresh rate. I have a 144Hz monitor. That is the major change between my last few post-Expedition playthroughs and this one. It's the refresh rate.

 

[ItsChon]

It's not a moot point when shock bolts are clearly the elemental bolt that Crossbows players rely on the most, and the ones used to justify the current balancing of the weapon.

You can use any of the quiet elemental bolts in a silent way if you're planning to silently kill three or even four enemies. Your whole point was about how elemental bolts aren't quiet, which nullifies one of the whole points of playing a Crossbow build. I just demonstrated how that's outright false. If that doesn't make your point moot, I have no idea. And I'd argue you're wrong about Shock Bolts being relied on the most. I used Acid Bolts the most due to the rarity of shock bolts and incendiary bolts. The common nature of Acid Bolts allowed me to get my high elemental bolts damage without having to worry about dipping into my more valuable CC bolts. Acid Bolts are also incredibily useful when dealing with Crabs or Strongmen or other highly resistant enemies, with Corrosive Acid being a must. Incendiary Bolts are great against enemies weak against fire, as well as for providing an alternative CC method when an enemy is immune to shock. All the bolts are useful, and shock being loud doesn't devalue the build like you're claiming.

With Spec Ops SMG, you can clear every single Ironhead out of Warehouse Block Beta without any of them knowing you were there or what hit them.

SMG/AR are two of the strongest builds in the game, doesn't mean the other builds aren't worth playing. Just because SMG can do that, doesn't make a Crossbow build any worse.

Gunslingers absolutely are stealthy if using a silenced pistol, and I'm sure there are plenty of builds that could take out a roomful of enemies with one.

Fair enough, but a silencer can only be used on 5 mm pistols. That's one build, and an Elemental Crossbow Bolt Build would fair just as well, assuming no Time Wizard Fuckery is involved.

Snipers aren't quiet, and neither are crossbows when using noisy bolts, such as the shock bolt you yourself used as an example of how crossbows can clear a room. Except a sniper rifle can clear a whole-ass screen. The enemies needn't be bunched together to stack shock bolts onto.

I went out of my way to explain how you can clear a room just as easily without using shock bolts, I don't know why you ignored it, but that doesn't make it any less true. And a Crossbow can stun six enemies in one go, reducing them to below half health, if not outright killing them. That's about as effective as the average Sniper turn will be.

You also ignored a good half of my post that picked apart most of what you said. I'm not trying to go for some gotcha moment, but you shitting on Crossbows and putting off people from trying them when it's actually a pretty fun build is annoying, especially to someone who played the build and enjoyed it.

 

[Blaine]

Failing to respond specifically to something you posted doesn't necessarily indicate dismissal. It may simply mean that I'm posting at work, and ran out of time (or whatever).

In any event, you've assured me that with acid and fire Elemental Bolts, as well as crit feats and so on, several enemies can be dispatched silently in a turn. All right, I'll accept that, because strong acid bolts and Elemental Bolts didn't exist when last I played.

 

[Tygrende]

Stygian Software "balancing" in action:

I'm missing what's bad about the free but slightly harder to get jet being slightly better than the other free but slightly easier to get jet.

You get the patroller by either stealing/killing sec-troopers or recovering/preventing the professor from being kidnapped. Getting it by following the questline is very easy, the 1st quest to recover the chip from mutie refugee is necessary to find the acorn and the second quest can be basically skipped with pickpocket, done very easily through negotiations, etc. Killing sec-troopers is on the easier side and you can steal one from the expedition camp without witnesses if you use noise right.

Cruiser on the other hand you can only get through killing marines or stealing it. Marines are stronger, they almost always travel in packs of about 5 (there is one that's alone in the water, but he's at port Zenith and there's tons of enemies behind him, including 2 snipers). Unlike the patroller, cruiser cannot be stolen without being seen, you will either have to wipe out a Protectorate outpost or trigger hostilities with the whole faction or turn the whole Rig hostile. Or join pirates and have marines spawn during the Armstrong raid, which makes the whole thing one of the harder fights in the game.

Or is bad for lore reasons? It's not believable that the biggest, strongest military force in Underrail has slightly better hardware than PMCs?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

\

Or is bad for lore reasons? It's not believable that the biggest, strongest military force in Underrail has slightly better hardware than PMCs?

Eh, there's a cost thing to consider too. These things are only as viable as the marines using them. Can they make a ton of Devastators? Absolutely, but the cost is just insane and it might not be worth a human life.

 

[Sykar]

Is there a reason why I get a winter theme on the character builder today? April's fool joke?

 

[Blaine]

I'm missing what's bad about the free but slightly harder to get jet being slightly better than the other free but slightly easier to get jet.

You get the patroller by either stealing/killing sec-troopers or recovering/preventing the professor from being kidnapped. Getting it by following the questline is very easy, the 1st quest to recover the chip from mutie refugee is necessary to find the acorn and the second quest can be basically skipped with pickpocket, done very easily through negotiations, etc. Killing sec-troopers is on the easier side and you can steal one from the expedition camp without witnesses if you use noise right.

Cruiser on the other hand you can only get through killing marines or stealing it. Marines are stronger, they almost always travel in packs of about 5 (there is one that's alone in the water, but he's at port Zenith and there's tons of enemies behind him, including 2 snipers). Unlike the patroller, cruiser cannot be stolen without being seen, you will either have to wipe out a Protectorate outpost or trigger hostilities with the whole faction or turn the whole Rig hostile. Or join pirates and have marines spawn during the Armstrong raid, which makes the whole thing one of the harder fights in the game.

Wiping out the cans guarding the Cruiser at the northernmost Protectorate outpost is quick, easy, and free of consequences. It's also accessible as soon as you reach Camp Hathor, and without needing to start the Expedition.

Also, +100 HP, +10% DR, and +10 DT isn't "slightly better" in the world of jet skis. That's virtually a whole class upward in the survivability department, and it's almost the only difference between the two models.

It's like saying the Patroller is "slightly better" than the Torpedo, which has 100 less HP and around -10%/-10 DR and DT. The proportional magnitude of difference is greater when comparing the Patroller to the Torpedo, but my point is clear. Of course, the Torpedo is much faster than the Patroller, so this disparity is justified.

Or is bad for lore reasons? It's not believable that the biggest, strongest military force in Underrail has slightly better hardware than PMCs?

It's bad because I want them to be legitimate side-grades, each with strengths and weaknesses and interesting reasons to use one over the other, rather than one simply being flat-out superior to the other. They clearly were conceived that way, but this was altered later, possibly post-release. There is a halfhearted attempt to make the Patroller very (literally a tiny fraction) slightly faster and more maneuverable, but it's nowhere close to compensating for the huge drop in survivability. Absolutely no one has nor ever will choose the Patroller over the Cruiser because of +5% maneuverability, which is its sole noticeable advantage.