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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Blaine

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Well, I was slightly incorrect regarding the use of sniper rifles from jet skis, once 100% stability has been achieved. It's still pants versus sea serpents, since they have an immersion-based special accuracy malus (or perhaps just super-high Evasion when immersed), but a 55% chance to one-shot them when they're lurking below is still quite good. For everything else, there's SniperCard. Abandoned Waterway Facility is pretty much just a mop-up operation where I obliterate everything from outside its range, occasionally boating around a corner, but usually for caution's sake rather than extreme cornerfagging.

"Bigger is better" is a real bummer in the jet ski department. Bigger jets can carry a lot more and don't blow up as easily. Simple, right? Just get a big one. Yawn. I feel a trick was missed here, because you'd think that a fast-moving jet ski would also be harder to hit. Doesn't seem to matter how maneuverable your jet is or how many tiles you move, though—you might as well be standing still as far as the game's calculations are concerned. This is okay for the rest of the game, but stands out as inadequate here. Your own defensive stats, be it resistances, Dodge/Evasion, or what-have-you, only come into play when you're hit instead of the jet. Most of the time, when riding a faster jet, I'd much rather my character take a hit than allow the jet to be hit; and even low-STR/stealth characters can afford to wear heavier armor while aboard a jet, at the very least LemCo Marine and Biohazard Boots. I rode the Phaser into battle recently, and one burst from some random ferry guard shredded it from full HP down to a few bars.

If I have a point here, it's that I can't help but think Maneuverability or perhaps tiles moved should contribute to avoiding damage unless the jet hasn't moved last turn or the driver is incapacitated—and this would affect the player, too. Otherwise, all light jets are basically sitting ducks. The exception is if there is a disembarkation point. You can Turbo right up to an enemy ship and board it in one turn, and indeed, in previous playthroughs, I often did just that. The pity is that there are only a small handful of raid missions, and random encounters that allow boarding are fairly rare.

Don't get me wrong, fast jetting and fast boarding are powerful tools, but there's a lot of combat slog in Expedition, and the Devastator being the overall best regardless of slowness (even in terms of loot haulage capacity) removes potential interest from customizing jets.

To be sure, jet skis in general tend to reward tin can builds the most (less likely to get obliterated when disembarking into a bunch of enemies, can wear a can while on the ski, isn't robbed of important combat tools like Stealth and Sniper, etc.), and I'm all right with that.

One other thing: Jet ski logistics remain annoying. Getting from your house to your jet can be done conveniently only through rifts. The most convenient by far is to Camp Hathor, though Camp Hathor is furthest from any point of interest; the Pirate Bay has the closest rift in Expedition, although getting out to the Black Sea proper is more tedious, followed by the rift in the Aegis encampment, which requires moving a couple screens total to reach, but the docks themselves are in the middle of everything. Your house needs a moon pool down at the docks or something.
 

Oreshnik Missile

BING XI LAO
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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
First time I have won this fight, had to go back to Core City house to get Corrosive Acid vials, the good drugs (including a Regenerative Mixture), plus it's the first time I've used the AI Scrambler - which was very effective.
I tried using the Blast Suit (85% reduction of Naga ranged attacks), but having 10 less AP, and no MP was too painful when using EMP III grenades with only 30 throwing skill invested. So I just went back to my regenerative overcoat, which is a kevlar variant (blast cloth variant would be more powerful). 38% explosion reduction from blast cloth tabis was nice too.
PAjELi2.png
Also hacking for the plasma turrets.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
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Blaine small top line fast jet skis are meant not to be hit at all. You can easilly get in and out of harms range within single turn
 

Blaine

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Blaine small top line fast jet skis are meant not to be hit at all. You can easilly get in and out of harms range within single turn

Sort of. If you're using something like an SMG, let alone a melee weapon, then you need to approach fairly close to your target before jetting away. A Phaser on Turbo has about 200 MP, I believe, which is a lot, but is only ten grid squares toward, and then ten away. Most enemy jets will be able to cover most of those ten grid squares of retreat.

Also, on initial approach, you can easily spend almost all of a fast jet's MP just getting close if you're starting at the edge of the screen. Therefore you'd need to burn a turn to get a bit closer first if your plan is to dart in and retreat. This is clearly not a problem for me at all currently, since I'm playing a sniper, but your allies will use up all their MP and then get blown to smithereens while you're positioning for your hit and run maneuver. Probably this shouldn't bother me, but it does.

In any case, fast-moving vehicles with inertia do tend to exaggerate the obvious limitations of turn-based systems, and allowances must be made.
 

Sykar

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I am pondering to make a Cyclops build, spamming Plasma Beam all day long, resorting to grenades against enemies like Nagas who would be too resistant against fire and energy damage. Question is, can you even plan for basically waiting to get a random item and how fast can you rush to get Plasma Beam, unless you get lucky and find it as random drop or with a vendor.

Something like:
https://underrail.info/build/?HgMHA...MKgACoAYStjUCxiKmVfLmYfwoQWPsK8wrfCuOKjiQrfvw

Probably would have to get grenade feats much earlier but just spit balled this together in a few mins.
 
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Tigranes

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I am pondering to make a Cyclops build, spamming Plasma Beam all day long, resorting to grenades against enemies like Nagas who would be too resistant against fire and energy damage. Question is, can you even plan for basically waiting to get a random item and how fast can you rush to get Plasma Beam, unless you get lucky and find it as random drop or with a vendor.

Something like:
https://underrail.info/build/?HgMHA...MKgACoAYStjUCxiKmVfLmYfwoQWPsK8wrfCuOKjiQrfvw

Probably would have to get grenade feats much earlier but just spit balled this together in a few mins.

I did this a few weeks ago (Dom/Oddity). It's viable in the sense that you can play a straight up Metathermics guy until then, and be creative around robots/etc., but it's only worth it with Speedhack to spam Constantine and grab cyclops' eye, and it is stupid design decision that the beam cave spawn is random.

To maximise beam time,
1/ go to rail crossing as soon as world opens and hope the cave is there;
2/ if not, beeline the Tchortist break-in to enable Utility Station 6 and then get it there (you could use Phreak but meta vs coil spiders is kind of ass)
3/ then do Oculus and speedhack the Cyclop's Eye.

Beam is definitely fun to use, though, once you get it. Nothing like burning 12 natives in one beam or something.

Build - Why fast metabolism, stoicism and hema for SI char? You only want to SI sometimes? Up to you but seems odd. Dropping all that would free up Grenadier at lv4, and whatever else you need that will really help you survive early game. You could also take TC, drop CON to 9, Locus of Control, given there's SP to spare. You definitely want TM haste to maximise beam casts.

My setup was quite different, based on maximising AP for multiple beamcasts (since it's hard to line everybody up). Can't remember exactly what I did but this was one of the ways:
https://underrail.info/build/?FAMDCgUDDgcAMgAAAABkPFAAAFBQFABQbgBuAAAAUCsxOT89KmRHwrwhZkYp378
 
Joined
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To maximise beam time,
1/ go to rail crossing as soon as world opens and hope the cave is there;
2/ if not, beeline the Tchortist break-in to enable Utility Station 6 and then get it there (you could use Phreak but meta vs coil spiders is kind of ass)
3/ then do Oculus and speedhack the Cyclop's Eye.
If you save before entering the caves you can keep reloading until the metathermics beetle cave does spawn. Holes are randomly generated when you first enter the area they're in, so if you walk to Rail Crossing and back then it'll change the RNG and they may decide to spawn if they didn't the first time. And if they don't then load the save again and walk in a different combination so the RNG changes again until they do spawn. It's a little exploitive, but it's better than having to wait until the utility station to get it.
Yeah I kinda cheated a little when I was testing leprechaun related things.
 

Sykar

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You cannot use anything with Cyclops Eye. You have only 1 slot so TM is useless. I guess it is useful until then but dont think it is that useful overall. Meta helps with 25 extra PSI points per booster, Hema helps getting your health down without waiting for Mania, Stoicism for extra safety with Morphine and Aegis. Stocisim can be taken much later though since it works best when you have a decent pool. Hema can be skipped for sure. I just like it but it is far from vital.
 
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Tigranes

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10,372
To maximise beam time,
1/ go to rail crossing as soon as world opens and hope the cave is there;
2/ if not, beeline the Tchortist break-in to enable Utility Station 6 and then get it there (you could use Phreak but meta vs coil spiders is kind of ass)
3/ then do Oculus and speedhack the Cyclop's Eye.
If you save before entering the caves you can keep reloading until the metathermics beetle cave does spawn. Holes are randomly generated when you first enter the area they're in, so if you walk to Rail Crossing and back then it'll change the RNG and they may decide to spawn if they didn't the first time. And if they don't then load the save again and walk in a different combination so the RNG changes again until they do spawn. It's a little exploitive, but it's better than having to wait until the utility station to get it.
Yeah I kinda cheated a little when I was testing leprechaun related things.

I thought this might be the case, but I reloaded about 50 times and it was either no cave or wrong cave - maybe the key is that it changes the seed depending on, say, where you're entering the zone from or at what time? FFS.

Re. TM/TC with Eye - sorry, forgot about this as I actually got the Eye quite late when I played. I think again it comes down to how many things you take for the game up to the Eye and how much you suffer instead.

There certainly is nothing quite like beaming thousands of damage supercrit beam several times a turn.
 

Sykar

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Man I am cursed with Coral. Third time she appears in a row. I even check the SGS docks but it seems like she can also start in other locations at random. I have never seen her charms do a damn thing apart from wasting a quick item slot.
 

Parabalus

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Mar 23, 2015
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Man I am cursed with Coral. Third time she appears in a row. I even check the SGS docks but it seems like she can also start in other locations at random. I have never seen her charms do a damn thing apart from wasting a quick item slot.

Epeli spoiled some mechanics here:

charm mechanics

though I'd rather get the tattoo, at least it doesn't take up a slot.
 

Sykar

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Turn right after Alpha Centauri
So apparently there are some minor benefits:
https://stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Charm

Though only for some charms. Which begs the question Styg why the flying fuck do they not only occupy a freaking quick item slot, but also have a god damn drawback in many cases? Booth tatoos have neither and you know very easily what they do.

Man I am cursed with Coral. Third time she appears in a row. I even check the SGS docks but it seems like she can also start in other locations at random. I have never seen her charms do a damn thing apart from wasting a quick item slot.

Epeli spoiled some mechanics here:

charm mechanics

though I'd rather get the tattoo, at least it doesn't take up a slot.

Luckily the bonuses are rather low and far from vital. Still stinks that her charms are so terrible in comparison to Booth and I am a strict enemy of repeated reloading for better starting conditions.
 
Joined
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Man I am cursed with Coral. Third time she appears in a row. I even check the SGS docks but it seems like she can also start in other locations at random. I have never seen her charms do a damn thing apart from wasting a quick item slot.
I'm told that if you go to Underrail\data\fragments\frags\ and delete gc_gypsy.obj then you're guaranteed Booth every time. Might be something to try.
I'm also told that hopper foot is a global crit chance increase, so that seems nice. Also that deathstalker makes you count as less illuminated when you're in stealth mode, so that'd be a nice edition to the usual black balaclava+black soft padded cave hopper overcoat+ninja tabis+cloaking device setup that people switch to for sneaking.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
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I believe one can get cyclop glasses from blaine too, as I saw other unique googles on him. And yes, after countless reloads, in my case to obtain 100q tichrome, q100 tungsteen and q90 wings for that amazing depot run
 

Sykar

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meta vs coil spiders is kind of ass
In my experience it's the exact opposite. MT gives you wide range of straight damage, AoE and CC abilities, and unlike PK you're not gimped by spooders' natural electric immunity.

Implosion+Recurrence takes care of everything. No reason not to go 70 TM at least even on PK.
 
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Blaine

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All-In was nerfed, as I recently discovered (though I personally never once used it for +3 INT), and I can also confirm that the once-vaunted source of All-In is no more. It has been removed from the inventory of the relevant NPC during Drag 'n' Drop's gambling tableau—and perhaps all pickpocketable drinks have been randomized, because I have a vague feeling that the special drinks contents of patron pockets aren't the same as they once were.

You now have to purchase All-In on gambling night, no freebie. This means that Pickpocket is 100% skippable again! Not that it ever wasn't, but a (very occasional; gambling night was already rare) free All-In was a big draw for many people. More Oddity XP was another big draw, and that's partly why I never play Oddity anymore, although I always used to—Oddity encourages significant meta-gaming throughout the game, including farming harmless critters, killing certain characters solely for their Oddity, taking just enough of certain skills (particularly Subterfuge) to scrounge Oddities, and much more, rather than Oddity simply rewarding exploration and discouraging farming for Classic XP (which I never did anyway).

Frankly, Classic XP works as it should, because you progress through the game without thinking about experience points all the time and having to micromanage the collection of a bunch of rubbish. I do like to collect Oddities just to collect them and read the description, but that's about all.

There are a couple of other sources of All-In beyond pickpocketing and paying, but they're about as limited as Supersoldier Drug. Most of your All-Ins will now be purchased. Pickpocketing is again relegated to gaining basic ammo and medications in the early to mid game, and as a "side hustle" to sometimes unlock containers, doors, or consoles with Lockpicking/Hacking which is certainly a help, but you can do without and then have dozens of skill points left to spend elsewhere. At this point I'd much rather have Persuasion or Intimidation.
 

Zeem

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Evil Empire
meta vs coil spiders is kind of ass
In my experience it's the exact opposite. MT gives you wide range of straight damage, AoE and CC abilities, and unlike PK you're not gimped by spooders' natural electric immunity.

Implosion+Recurrence takes care of everything. No reason not to go 70 TM at least even on PK.
Implosion has a 5 turn cooldown and 5 tile range. It's good on a single target with lots of HP, but coil spooders are never alone. Plus having to rely on another school in the first place kinda invalidates the whole point of PK not being fucked over by spooder's electric immunity.
 

Sykar

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You can increase the range of PK abilities by 2 and Premed increases the range further. All schools have the immunity problem except TM but CR has other problems so there is no school that isn't reliant on either grenades or another school. Pointless complaint.
 
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All-In was nerfed, as I recently discovered (though I personally never once used it for +3 INT), and I can also confirm that the once-vaunted source of All-In is no more. It has been removed from the inventory of the relevant NPC during Drag 'n' Drop's gambling tableau—and perhaps all pickpocketable drinks have been randomized, because I have a vague feeling that the special drinks contents of patron pockets aren't the same as they once were.
It's still fixed. NPCs randomly consume food now so it's possible he'll drink it before you can steal it from him though. If you really want it you can save before going downstairs and reload until he doesn't drink it so you can steal it. And if you really want the opportunity to steal it then you can save before you enter the zone with the Drag N Drop, since the game only picks which people spawn there when you enter the area. Though that is slightly exploitive.
 

Zeem

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You can increase the range of PK abilities by 2 and Premed increases the range further. All schools have the immunity problem except TM but CR has other problems so there is no school that isn't reliant on either grenades or another school. Pointless complaint.
My point was explicitly about the effectiveness of MT versus coil spiders compared to other psi schools. On my tri-school psychosis psigger I have found that MT even without any feat investment is the best tool against them due to its versatile abilities, powerful crits and bugs being both perfectly flammable and freeze-able.
 

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