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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

lukaszek

the determinator
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STR for spears, that i would understand, critical damage is bad on spears so damage wise STR wins by far. Perhaps the feat Spear Throw is so good?
spear throw is as weird as it gets.
Thrown spear is considered melee attack for all purposes - like feats and other effects.
Accuracy scales exclusively from throw skill - hence dex. You can even go 3str and not meet spear min STR requirements
STR still scales dmg, but on DOM there are very few enemies that can survive thrown spear at max range. Even most DOM bosses die to single throw. Since dmg scales with melee, you need melee skill max too.
I think going max dex is optimal because on DOM having max acc is crucial with those throw, while even with 3str enemies just die from single throw.

Speaking of which, DEX provides 1% crit chance.
You have sword carving effect which should be enough. Swords are not knives - you deal proper damage even with non crits.

anyway you should give up on swords and join knives master race. If you are reluctant you can use butcher knife which is basically misconfigured sword
 

Serus

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Small but great planet of Potatohole
STR for spears, that i would understand, critical damage is bad on spears so damage wise STR wins by far. Perhaps the feat Spear Throw is so good?
spear throw is as weird as it gets.
Thrown spear is considered melee attack for all purposes - like feats and other effects.
Accuracy scales exclusively from throw skill - hence dex. You can even go 3str and not meet spear min STR requirements
STR still scales dmg, but on DOM there are very few enemies that can survive thrown spear at max range. Even most DOM bosses die to single throw. Since dmg scales with melee, you need melee skill max too.
I think going max dex is optimal because on DOM having max acc is crucial with those throw, while even with 3str enemies just die from single throw.

Speaking of which, DEX provides 1% crit chance.
You have sword carving effect which should be enough. Swords are not knives - you deal proper damage even with non crits.

anyway you should give up on swords and join knives master race. If you are reluctant you can use butcher knife which is basically misconfigured sword
A propos knife master race, do knifers use expertise? early game crit chance isn't high and they do weak fast attacks so that would make some sense? later when crit chance rises it would become obsolete though. What's the consensus?
 

agris

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or perhaps that's a stretch?
It is a stretch.
(... of an anus) No one, really? :(
8383061871502051d71316311b6fd273.jpeg
 

lukaszek

the determinator
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A propos knife master race, do knifers use expertise? early game crit chance isn't high and they do weak fast attacks so that would make some sense? later when crit chance rises it would become obsolete though. What's the consensus?
basically knife either deals no dmg or a lot with crits. Go big or go home. Expertise numbers are just meh in comparison + you should be feat starved anyway.
Main thing when building a knifer is planning around enemies that are resistant - high physical DR and/or crit immunity. Especially on DOM.
 

Serus

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I assume that high physical resistance is cared by Exploit weakness. Or electricity damage. Crit immunity, I'm not sure yet, but i'll figure it out. If a single enemy then lock him with cheap shots perhaps or cut-throat, it does massive damage without the need of a crit. This was not a problem on an AR build.
A propos, started as knifer in the end because I couldn't decide about the sword build. Knife is sort of simpler, at least it's dex all the way. I'm on a very serious level 3. The only issue i had is what to take was the third feat on levels 1-2 feat. Between Expertise and Conditioning but i finally went with Interloper. There was a funny discussion about it and i want to check it myself if it is useful at all. The best build is probably a stealthy melee to determine it.
 

Parabalus

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Mar 23, 2015
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Serus, I do not have much experience with Swords to give advice, but if you were looking for the most unreliable build in UR, I think you have found it! Flurry should give your fights a feeling of russian roulette.
(Doesn't mean it won't be fun!)

If your going swords be sure to take Temporal Manipulation, it makes misses far less punishing.

Even with DEX swords the damage is obscene, Flurry one-shotting nagas etc.

Main thing when building a knifer is planning around enemies that are resistant - high physical DR and/or crit immunity. Especially on DOM.

Just expose weakness or versatility elemental pistols. Or both.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
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I assume that high physical resistance is cared by Exploit weakness.
for most part, although expedition is a pain. What sucks most is long cd and single enemy nature of that skill. Hence you will have to move to
Or electricity damage
too weak. You will need energy edge for crabs. Then there are nagas that are just annoying since you will be waiting for expose weakness a lot while on cd.

Still, on knifer versatility >> expose weakness. lazor pistol uses mostly same feats you already have, so you will execute physical resistant enemies quickly.

Or you can use other tools that are on our disposal now - poisons and acid(make sure you go pirate route). On lower diffs than dom you can just push through with plasma grenades

cut-throat
that feat is weird... good against enemies you are already excelent against, useless otherwise. It is fun to have though. Double your fun by doing versatilty with mechanical pistols and pick execute
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Does anyone have any experience with Plasma Pistols/Laser Pistols/Electroshock pistols? Are they viable without crit? How much perception to start seeing damage?
 

lukaszek

the determinator
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Does anyone have any experience with Plasma Pistols/Laser Pistols/Electroshock pistols? Are they viable without crit? How much perception to start seeing damage?
if no crits, why not go chemical pistol route instead?

How much perception to start seeing damage?
perception doesnt affect hit chance/dmg directly, rather guns skill.
Since tech weapons are small, its preferable to max dex and go with versatility instead
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Does anyone have any experience with Plasma Pistols/Laser Pistols/Electroshock pistols? Are they viable without crit? How much perception to start seeing damage?
if no crits, why not go chemical pistol route instead?

How much perception to start seeing damage?
perception doesnt affect hit chance/dmg directly, rather guns skill.
Since tech weapons are small, its preferable to max dex and go with versatility instead
I want to play a tanky plasma/laser/electroschock pistol build. If I'm going crits I need to spec into crit feats and wear crit boosting gear versus tanky gear. I could go tanky chemical weapons I guess, I've never tried it, but just wondering if this route wouldn't work either.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
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Does anyone have any experience with Plasma Pistols/Laser Pistols/Electroshock pistols? Are they viable without crit? How much perception to start seeing damage?
if no crits, why not go chemical pistol route instead?

How much perception to start seeing damage?
perception doesnt affect hit chance/dmg directly, rather guns skill.
Since tech weapons are small, its preferable to max dex and go with versatility instead
I want to play a tanky plasma/laser/electroschock pistol build. If I'm going crits I need to spec into crit feats and wear crit boosting gear versus tanky gear. I could go tanky chemical weapons I guess, I've never tried it, but just wondering if this route wouldn't work either.
think about it this way: you are picking light weapon with large crit bonuses, then want to play it without crit feats nor high dex.
On other hand chemical guns do have some heavier armor synergies, like chemical assault armor

also define 'work', you can likely roll normal with anything
 

Trashos

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Dec 28, 2015
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3,413
Chemical pistols are a lot of fun. My favorite combination is acid pistol + incendiary pistol (with Ambush). Chem is very OP in Expedition too. The only issue is that it takes a while to get going (and they are extremely expensive early in the game), but you can make do with simpler pistols initially.

Definitely try chemical pistols at some point.
 

Parabalus

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Mar 23, 2015
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Chem pistols are really cool because they have just one great feat (Cooked Shot), which is also situational, so you can use them to great effect regardless of your build.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
think about it this way: you are picking light weapon with large crit bonuses, then want to play it without crit feats nor high dex.
Actually I'm fine with using high dex. I decided to go with this.
https://underrail.info/build/?EAgLAwkDAwcZAABUAAAAUEEAAFBQNCtQAAAAAFAAMwhVwqMxH1BawppLKeK1rgHfvw
Only question is whether or not the 82 effective skill will be enough at level 16? The difference between 14 Dex and 11 Dex is 14 skill points, is it really that substantial, or is this just delaying when my build will come fully online by a few levels? It'll have 51% crit chance if I drop the infused armor and survival instincts, and eat some hardcore chips, is that enough crit chance to consistently deal with threats, with my extra tankiness being factored in? Who knows, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Only question, do strider metal boots give more mp than tabis, when the armor penalty is factored in?
 

Parabalus

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think about it this way: you are picking light weapon with large crit bonuses, then want to play it without crit feats nor high dex.
Actually I'm fine with using high dex. I decided to go with this.
https://underrail.info/build/?EAgLAwkDAwcZAABUAAAAUEEAAFBQNCtQAAAAAFAAMwhVwqMxH1BawppLKeK1rgHfvw
Only question is whether or not the 82 effective skill will be enough at level 16? The difference between 14 Dex and 11 Dex is 14 skill points, is it really that substantial, or is this just delaying when my build will come fully online by a few levels? It'll have 51% crit chance if I drop the infused armor and survival instincts, and eat some hardcore chips, is that enough crit chance to consistently deal with threats, with my extra tankiness being factored in? Who knows, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Only question, do strider metal boots give more mp than tabis, when the armor penalty is factored in?

You really want max DEX if going versatility, need more effective skill to hit stuff, and the AP reduction is better the higher it goes.

Just dump STR to 3, why have more since you're talking about infused armor?
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
think about it this way: you are picking light weapon with large crit bonuses, then want to play it without crit feats nor high dex.
Actually I'm fine with using high dex. I decided to go with this.
https://underrail.info/build/?EAgLAwkDAwcZAABUAAAAUEEAAFBQNCtQAAAAAFAAMwhVwqMxH1BawppLKeK1rgHfvw
Only question is whether or not the 82 effective skill will be enough at level 16? The difference between 14 Dex and 11 Dex is 14 skill points, is it really that substantial, or is this just delaying when my build will come fully online by a few levels? It'll have 51% crit chance if I drop the infused armor and survival instincts, and eat some hardcore chips, is that enough crit chance to consistently deal with threats, with my extra tankiness being factored in? Who knows, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Only question, do strider metal boots give more mp than tabis, when the armor penalty is factored in?

You really want max DEX if going versatility, need more effective skill to hit stuff, and the AP reduction is better the higher it goes.

Just dump STR to 3, why have more since you're talking about infused armor?
The whole point of the build is to be super tanky, I want to be wearing full metal armor and look bitches in the eye as I take my time aiming my laser pistol while their attacks harmlessly bounce off of me. My last question was about tabis vs striders, but honestly since I have 3 agility I'll probably just go all in on full armor penalty.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
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The difference between 14 Dex and 11 Dex is 14 skill points, is it really that substantial, or is this just delaying when my build will come fully online by a few levels?
12 vs 10AP attack cost. Meaning losing 1 extra attack per round! Now you see why its important to go full dex

Keep in mind that this is probably best armor for laz0r guy: https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tesla_Armor
You can power it up and go all the way to 0% armor penalty. Obviously you can be more tanky wearing more metal.

Its sad not to see some throwing when you already have high electronics
 

Parabalus

Arcane
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Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
think about it this way: you are picking light weapon with large crit bonuses, then want to play it without crit feats nor high dex.
Actually I'm fine with using high dex. I decided to go with this.
https://underrail.info/build/?EAgLAwkDAwcZAABUAAAAUEEAAFBQNCtQAAAAAFAAMwhVwqMxH1BawppLKeK1rgHfvw
Only question is whether or not the 82 effective skill will be enough at level 16? The difference between 14 Dex and 11 Dex is 14 skill points, is it really that substantial, or is this just delaying when my build will come fully online by a few levels? It'll have 51% crit chance if I drop the infused armor and survival instincts, and eat some hardcore chips, is that enough crit chance to consistently deal with threats, with my extra tankiness being factored in? Who knows, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Only question, do strider metal boots give more mp than tabis, when the armor penalty is factored in?

You really want max DEX if going versatility, need more effective skill to hit stuff, and the AP reduction is better the higher it goes.

Just dump STR to 3, why have more since you're talking about infused armor?
The whole point of the build is to be super tanky, I want to be wearing full metal armor and look bitches in the eye as I take my time aiming my laser pistol while their attacks harmlessly bounce off of me. My last question was about tabis vs striders, but honestly since I have 3 agility I'll probably just go all in on full armor penalty.
if I drop the infused armor and survival instincts

If you're running around in metal armor there's less reason to drop SI. It's especially useful early when you're hurting for damage.

Also with 95% armor penalty I'd recommend TM for haste, even with massive corner abuse it will be extremely annoying.
 

Falksi

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Nottingham
Please someone change this thread title to something which doesn't associate this fine indie game with sickening, formulaic Disney shite.

Ta.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
think about it this way: you are picking light weapon with large crit bonuses, then want to play it without crit feats nor high dex.
Actually I'm fine with using high dex. I decided to go with this.
https://underrail.info/build/?EAgLAwkDAwcZAABUAAAAUEEAAFBQNCtQAAAAAFAAMwhVwqMxH1BawppLKeK1rgHfvw
Only question is whether or not the 82 effective skill will be enough at level 16? The difference between 14 Dex and 11 Dex is 14 skill points, is it really that substantial, or is this just delaying when my build will come fully online by a few levels? It'll have 51% crit chance if I drop the infused armor and survival instincts, and eat some hardcore chips, is that enough crit chance to consistently deal with threats, with my extra tankiness being factored in? Who knows, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Only question, do strider metal boots give more mp than tabis, when the armor penalty is factored in?

You really want max DEX if going versatility, need more effective skill to hit stuff, and the AP reduction is better the higher it goes.

Just dump STR to 3, why have more since you're talking about infused armor?
The whole point of the build is to be super tanky, I want to be wearing full metal armor and look bitches in the eye as I take my time aiming my laser pistol while their attacks harmlessly bounce off of me. My last question was about tabis vs striders, but honestly since I have 3 agility I'll probably just go all in on full armor penalty.
if I drop the infused armor and survival instincts

If you're running around in metal armor there's less reason to drop SI. It's especially useful early when you're hurting for damage.

Also with 95% armor penalty I'd recommend TM for haste, even with massive corner abuse it will be extremely annoying.
Fair enough, I can definitely fit SI in, so I might as well. I can still use it even if I'm not running around with low hp all the time.
12 vs 10AP attack cost. Meaning losing 1 extra attack per round! Now you see why its important to go full dex

Keep in mind that this is probably best armor for laz0r guy
Dex will eventually hit 14 at level 24 in my defense. That being said, you've definitely piqued my interest with the Tesla armor. If I plan my build around that, I can dump strength completely which will allow me to max Dex and choose to get sprint or spec into intelligence for the extra damage. That being said, I won't really be that tanky even with 9 Con, and the earliest I can get it will be around level 14-16. I'll probably still give my heavy armor build a shot, and switch to Telsa armor if I'm in need of more damage for a specific encounter. As for the extra ap per attack, you make a good point, but if I eat an eel sandwhich it'll knock down my ap right? I'll just carry some with me and consume them if I'm going to get into a particularly difficult encounter where I need five-six shots instead of 4-5 (depending on my level at that time).
Its sad not to see some throwing when you already have high electronics
What does throwing having to do with high electronics?

And even though the devlog indicates slow-going, it's still very heartening to see. Infusion will be great in 2025.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
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What does throwing having to do with high electronics?
mk3 plasma and emp grenades. With high dex 40 points investment will be enough, can consider grenadier too. You got bio, can even use gas grenades!

Dex will eventually hit 14 at level 24 in my defense.
important weapon is lazor gun, which got 15ap cost. You hit milestone at 14dex for 10ap. Next reduction is at 17dex to 9AP, which might not be that important if you arent blitzing and/or other AP cheating. You do also lose quite a lot of offence stat points though.

What might not be clear is early game electric dagger will be your best friend
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
I am very happy with the addition of categories on the crafting screen. This had been at the top of my wishlist since I first played the game.

The flashing "Notes" tab every time I get a new quest is extremely annoying. Seriously, how did this make it in? Did no one complain?
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
The flashing "Notes" tab every time I get a new quest is extremely annoying. Seriously, how did this make it in? Did no one complain?
You're looking at it the wrong way. I consider it a personal challenge to rack up as many unread notes as I can by the end of the game. It's a joy to look at. I don't remember my high score right now but it was well over 200 I think.
 

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