Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[jackofshadows]

Hit and run - not sure what's the point tbh

It's secretly a very strong feat, especially if you can afford to spec it. If you're at a point where you can easily kill a lot of things in a turn AP-wise, it will give you an order of magnitude more MP than anything else would to reach your full killing potential. If you spec it it's 40 MP per kill, so you can easily end up having anywhere from a couple hundred to even 4 digit MP in one turn.

Made a vid that showcases this recently. It uses broken laser cats so it can kill a lot more things that you normally could, but you can get somewhat close to this with firearm pistols actually. I have gained about 1000 MP and walked over 100 tiles in one turn with it.

I'm not saying the feat is weak but it's kinda excessive for pistolero plus yeah, with versatility you'd rather spend those spec points on something else like bullet time. Melee builds are another story I imagine. Nice vid, anyway.

 

[lukaszek]

if you want versatile pistolero, here is something i found in my files
https://underrail.info/build/?GAMQC...ABLwqMXHSYGEwsRw5HDkksSwp4aR8KF4rWuBOK9hAXfvw
looks like fun experience with both cutthroat and execute, utilising both knives and pistols.

hit n run is ok, but im biased towards fancy footwork

 

[Tygrende]

I'm not saying the feat is weak but it's kinda excessive for pistolero plus yeah, with versatility you'd rather spend those spec points on something else like bullet time. Melee builds are another story I imagine. Nice vid, anyway.

Well it depends on what we consider as "excessive". You don't need it if you're just gonna wait for enemies to come to you, but if you want to assert dominance and kill (almost) everything on the map before it even has a chance to move, hit and run is basically the only way to do that.

I agree pistols probably don't have the points to spec it though, 10 in vers and 5 in bullet time is pretty set in stone, at best you can spare a point or two from vers on something but even that's a stretch. That said 25 MP per kill is still decent and pistols can really make great use of it - you can shoot a 9mm hammerer at 4 AP with specced bullet time and 19 DEX. Assuming 105 AP (contraction, coke, lowest 10 AP refund from rapid reloader) that's potentially over 20 kills in a turn, with 500 MP to reach them all.

 

[Grunker]

I'm not saying the feat is weak but it's kinda excessive for pistolero plus yeah, with versatility you'd rather spend those spec points on something else like bullet time. Melee builds are another story I imagine. Nice vid, anyway.

Well it depends on what we consider as "excessive". You don't need it if you're just gonna wait for enemies to come to you, but if you want to assert dominance and kill (almost) everything on the map before it even has a chance to move, hit and run is basically the only way to do that.

I agree pistols probably don't have the points to spec it though, 10 in vers and 5 in bullet time is pretty set in stone, at best you can spare a point or two from vers on something but even that's a stretch. That said 25 MP per kill is still decent and pistols can really make great use of it - you can shoot a 9mm hammerer at 4 AP with specced bullet time and 19 DEX. Assuming 105 AP (contraction, coke, lowest 10 AP refund from rapid reloader) that's potentially over 20 kills in a turn, with 500 MP to reach them all.

Why is speccing Versatility so important? At that point, do you really get that much from extra effective skill in your secondary weapon skills?

My logic was basically what you're saying - Pistols are more effective up close, Hit and run should effectively allow you more kills per turn by getting from enemy to enemy. I was planning to spec it, but even if you don't, surely the body count at End of Turn goes up when you can move between them that much more easily.

 

[lukaszek]

Why is speccing Versatility so important? At that point, do you really get that much from extra effective skill in your secondary weapon skills?

effective respective skill doesnt govern just hit chance, but also dmg

 

[Grunker]

Why is speccing Versatility so important? At that point, do you really get that much from extra effective skill in your secondary weapon skills?

effective respective skill doesnt govern just hit chance, but also dmg

And skilling versatility is enough for those weapons to be effective in late game as well?

Anyway, I've got some spare feats after removing the actives... opinions? Currently list looks like this (not necessarily in that order), opinions?:

1. Gunslinger
2. Ambush
3. Versatility
4. Hit and Run
5. Recklessness
6. Gun Nut
7. Pack Rathhound
8. Interloper
9. Premeditation
10. Fatal Throw
11. Sharpshooter
12. Bullet Time
13. Critical Power
14. Blindsiding
15. Increased Dexterity
16. ?
17. ?

Also open for removing Pack Rathhound, Gun Nut and maybe Premeditation if there's something else enticing.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Consider Grenadier. The tall DEX requirement for Pure Pistols bleeds over into Throwing, which is applicable to both throwing knives and throwing grenades.

Rapid Fire, also. Helps lay-out pistols' effectiveness as close range weapons.

 

[Grunker]

Consider Grenadier. The tall DEX requirement for Pure Pistols bleeds over into Throwing, which is applicable to both throwing knives and throwing grenades.

Rapid Fire, also. Helps lay-out pistols' effectiveness as close range weapons.

Grenadier seems great, I'll consider it.

I picked Rapid Fire, but:

Rapid fire and point shot are simply too weak imo.

And upon consideration I think I can see jack's logic. Once the build starts kicking your normal turns have such oomph that these actives seem like a minor boon at best?

 

[lukaszek]

And skilling versatility is enough for those weapons to be effective in late game as well?

even without speccing it will be fine.
At level 24, speccing 9 points into versatility translates into 47 extra in guns, 30% increase.

those 47 points also translate to base_damage*0.33

 

[Grunker]

And skilling versatility is enough for those weapons to be effective in late game as well?

even without speccing it will be fine.
At level 24, speccing 9 points into versatility translates into 47 extra in guns, 30% increase.

those 47 points also translate to base_damage*0.33

But guns is what I'm maxing?

 

[lukaszek]

And skilling versatility is enough for those weapons to be effective in late game as well?

even without speccing it will be fine.
At level 24, speccing 9 points into versatility translates into 47 extra in guns, 30% increase.

those 47 points also translate to base_damage*0.33

But guns is what I'm maxing?

no. You max dex which increases melee. You max melee.
Versatility translates that into guns. You pick enough in guns skill to unlock feats(which versatility doesnt do). This way you can run with 3 PER.
This synergy is even better on energy/chemical pistols where you invest almost no gun skill points

 

[Grunker]

And skilling versatility is enough for those weapons to be effective in late game as well?

even without speccing it will be fine.
At level 24, speccing 9 points into versatility translates into 47 extra in guns, 30% increase.

those 47 points also translate to base_damage*0.33

But guns is what I'm maxing?

no. You max dex which increases melee. You max melee.

Doh, you're right. I didn't fully understand how the interaction worked with Dex scaling.

jackofshadows however recommended 6 PER for Amubsh, which seems like a fun feat.

 

[lukaszek]

@jackofshadows however recommended 6 PER for Amubsh, which seems like a fun feat.

there is also steadfast aim if you go after desert eagle unique pistol, requires lower str investment than per for ambush

 

[Grunker]

hnnnnnng what do i do

 

[lukaszek]

hnnnnnng what do i do

my advise is always to pick your larp and have fun with it.
You dont need ambush. If it sounds fun for you, go get it. If you want execute/cutthroat - go get it

 

[Trashos]

Ambush is a lot of fun, it is one of my favorite feats in any game ever. It is not useful in all situations (it needs darkness), but when it is on, it is ON! I say try it.

I can never bring myself to make the Steadfast Aim investment.

 

[Grunker]

Well, I'm committed. Ended up going back to the pure Per build after several more test playthroughs. I may regret it, but honestly I'm expecting Grenadier and Three Pointer to carry me if all else fails. This is how it ended up:

https://underrail.info/build/?HgMOB...R0xAhY-w5LChSpLU8KHwrXCpDPioIoF4qO6BeK9hAXfvw

I might switch it up a little bit, but that's the skeleton at least. Currently level 6 returning from Gorsky's quest.

 

[Trashos]

Looks OK.
Unless sth has changed lately, you probably don't need that high Lockpicking. I haven't made a study of it, but I usually aim for 110 (effective) for high DEX builds, and have been happy with it. 110 may already be needlessly high.

 

[Grunker]

Looks OK.
Unless sth has changed lately, you probably don't need that high Lockpicking. I haven't made a study of it, but I usually aim for 110 (effective) for high DEX builds, and have been happy with it. 110 may already be needlessly high.

Honestly I just put in those points to be on the safe side. It's not like the build is hurting for points.

 

[Tygrende]

Ambush is a lot of fun, it is one of my favorite feats in any game ever. It is not useful in all situations (it needs darkness), but when it is on, it is ON! I say try it.

I can never bring myself to make the Steadfast Aim investment.

It's a "barely worth it" kind of investment on non-.44 pistols. With a rapid 9mm hammerer at 20 base AP you get 5% crit chance in exchange for a feat and 2 stat points that do absolutely nothing for you otherwise except some carry weight. This isn't to die for and you probably have better things to spend those points and feat on. On .44 it's a must have though.

 

[lukaszek]

I can never bring myself to make the Steadfast Aim investment.

i keep looking at it whenever i think of refurbished desert eagle

 

[Trashos]

On .44 it's a must have though.

I am not so sure an additional 11% crit chance is worth 2 ability points and 1 feat. I guess it depends on what one is going to do with those resources otherwise. Practically, I never do it.

 

[lukaszek]

On .44 it's a must have though.

I am not so sure an additional 11% crit chance is worth 2 ability points and 1 feat. I guess it depends on what one is going to do with those resources otherwise. Practically, I never do it.

on desert eagle its 12.5% and quite a boost for meh 8% base. Paired with 150% base multiplier its indeed something to think about

 

[Trashos]

I am not saying that it is a bad feat with those 2 pistols. I do not consider it a mistake to take it. It is just too expensive, and instead of doing that I can do several other things, which I practically prefer.

Sometimes I start designing my build with Steadfast Aim included, but I always end up going "Fuck that!".

 

[jackofshadows]

If you've already decided to scratch for Steadfast Aim though you might as well scratch for another str point and make versatility build with the idea of getting power fist early on. Ahh man...