Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[ItsChon]

https://imgur.com/a/WW8KjCO Is punching people viable?

Most definitely is, there are a lot of strong punching builds.

Looking at your stat distribution, it's not bad, but I will let you know now, Dexterity is incredibly important for punching builds, and you're definitely going to want more than 10, otherwise you won't be able to get enough attacks off to deal enough damage. You can choose to either go heavy fist or light fist, for heavy you'll want at least 10 dex, and for light you'll want to max dexterity. You probably want to drop constitution to three so you can afford the 10 dex. I don't know if you want to go psi, but it's pretty recommended for fist builds as there is a psionic ability that synergizes heavily with fists. If you do choose psionics, you'll want to go 3 Will and 6 Int. You might have to take a hit in your Str level to get all the stat points.

I do have a fist build if you want one.

 

[Grunker]

I liked the fact that Arena was a place that didn't give you a chance to bear trap cheese and such

It's also a hilariously untrue statement. There are so many things in this game that'll kill you if you're not paying attention. Like - this man was upset about not being able to bear trap spam in the Arena, how did he feel the first time a Crawler crawled up his ass? Bear trap that, motherfucker

 

[Grunker]

Playthrough status:

Character

Spoiler

Level 13, and *just* crafted my first +100 quality gun, which has been a huge upgrade. Build still feels subpar (compared to the opposition), but at least it's dealing damage now.

Definitely see how a pure Dex build is more powerful and really missed Versatility in the early game, but I'm glad I stuck to this build. There's a lot to like and I do enjoy spotting secrets, even if already from around level 8 or so Perception 8 isn't even enough to spot most enemy traps :D

Skills look like this currently:

Mostly sticking to the plan as you can see, though I actually had to run sub-max weapon skills for a couple of levels - needed Electronics 30 for Laser Sight obviously, and then I needed Chemistry, Biology and Tailoring for Gas Grenades, Molotovs etc., which were especially important for The Beast. That's also why my Stealth and Persuasion aren't higher, had to delay them. I'm really glad I took Persuasion even though people on Discord and other places told me not to. There's a surprising amount of checks with actual effects for a game that is really about the core gameplay and not about reactivity.

I did miss Pickpocketing a couple of times of course, but it was nothing that couldn't be worked around, and even without pickpocketing I'm already sitting on a stash of 5000 charons, which I'm pondering if I should spend on anything.

I also miss Mercantile, not for the discounts so much as for the access to higher level shops - so that's definitely the focus next. I do think it's a bit of a cheap way to add value to a skill. It's really the only skill I feel I must choose to do well on Dominating. Everything else I can imagine doing without.

And here's the feats:

I am very satisfied with the way this has gone down. As many of you warned me, Aimed Shot is showing itself to be more and more a waste of a feat, but a) it's a req for Sharpshooter, b) it really, really helped during the early and early mid game.

Ambush I instantly regretted taking until I learned to work with it. Now it's probably the highlight of my feats. So fun to play around, and Styg really designed a clear and easily decoded lighting system, so it doesn't feel tedious to work with this feat at all. The indicators are also pretty clear. It's also perfectly balanced: it's not always possible to activate, and sometimes you have to work so hard to do it it's debatable if it's worth it, but most of the time you can set it up. And for a build that usually can't hit shit more than 4 squares away, it feels SO GOOOOOOD when this feat is active and you can snipe targets long distance because their evasion doesn't do shit. Overall, I'm very thankful to jackofshadows for this suggestion.

Interloper is the feat I'm most back and forth on. On the one hand, it alone allowed me some early sneaks that would just be impossible without it - obviously it was bonkers in Depot A. On the other hand, it feels like a feat that when it does something it's bonkers, but it only does something in 5% of scenarios.

Grenadier is the only feat I'm doubtful about taking. Right now it's perfect - a much needed powerboost without feeling OP. But I can definetely see this getting out of hand once I have a steady supply of high end grenades and Three Pointer. ESPECIALLY with the additional CD lowering from TM. Maybe I'm gonna regret taking those two.

Next up is Bullet Time and Blindsiding though.

One feat I wish I could have fit in earlier is Paranoia. If I could do a do-over I'd probably replace Aimed Shot with Paranoia.

Only thing I'm still not sure of in terms of later feats is whether to take Gun Nut or Psycho-Temporal Acceleration. I could also take both and leave out Paranoia entirely, since maybe it's pointless when I get it so late.

Entire rough outline buildplan is here if anyone is curious: https://underrail.info/build/?HgMOB...LN1oAAABGZgBgKwEXGR0xAioWw5LChT5LKFPCtcKkM9-_

As for progress

Spoiler

I joined the Oculus fairly early and obviously did Dude's quest waaaay to early. Then I joined JKK - I really like how they just offed Vivian, who they set up as a long term partner, off screen. This game is so fucking callous about its world and characters, I love it. Reading people cry over how they killed her on the Steam forums is like eating sweet vanilla ice cream, lol. I recently killed The Beast and pretty much finished up Foundry, then went to Railroad Crossing and did some questing there, including saving Buzzer. Finally being a bit overleveled for something felt good. Most recently I went to Core and finally started The Arena (the first couple of fights was honestly the first point in the game where I felt stronger than the opposition lol) and did the Faceless tunneller.

Next plan is to figure out where to learn Psycho-Temporal Contraction (I'm playing without guides or wikis). I'm probably going to start by doing a shop sweep to see if I can find a trainer, maybe one of the doctors. I have a bunch of stuff to sell anyway.

All in all, I'm completely hooked on the game, which is very surprising since I am definitely *not* a fan of single-character RPGs (it's the prime reason I'm only doing a full playthrough of this now so many years after release). I'm still in the honeymoon phase so we'll see if it holds up, but I like it more than Fallout (since it's basically a gameplay-focused Fallout, and I'm a gameplay first kindda guy). I have a few minor grievances, especially with travelling and quest structure, but they are just that: minor grievances.

I am also surprised that despite the sometimes uneven writing there are a) a few instances of legitimately good writing, b) plenty of cool characters and most importantly c) a ton of lore mysteries, delivered briefly and to the point and without excess lore dumps. There are a ton of questions about factions and their vague goals that keep you engaged even with the simplicity of the plot delivery. Dropping these legitimately interesting conundrums in a few lines of dialogue is infinitely more effective than something like Pillars' endless droning on about epic philosophical enigmas. It's a rare example of effective brevity in a modern RPG culture that seems to ascribe to a "more is more"-philosophy in writing style.

 

[ciox]

I liked the fact that Arena was a place that didn't give you a chance to bear trap cheese and such

It's also a hilariously untrue statement. There are so many things in this game that'll kill you if you're not paying attention. Like - this man was upset about not being able to bear trap spam in the Arena, how did he feel the first time a Crawler crawled up his ass? Bear trap that, motherfucker

Eh, you can spec for initiative with just items, and you can also still use traps there if you really want to, with flashbang -> stealth -> end combat.
Arena rocks and I hope something happens based on that random line (it's in the game somewhere, can't remember) about expanding arena to have jetski battles.

 

[jackofshadows]

I liked the fact that Arena was a place that didn't give you a chance to bear trap cheese and such

It's also a hilariously untrue statement. There are so many things in this game that'll kill you if you're not paying attention. Like - this man was upset about not being able to bear trap spam in the Arena, how did he feel the first time a Crawler crawled up his ass? Bear trap that, motherfucker

Sneaky bastards have it easier most of the game anyway. I'd say it's nice that the game forces them to come out of the shadows for once. And now it's not even obligatory thing to do anymore.

Skills look like this currently:

Your biggest mistake is to pumping TM w/o having the actual abilities - the price of playing blindly. Not sure about early chem/bio/tailor investments but that's rather me - I prefer to invest those in mercantile and just to buy any amount of molotovs that I need. Gas grenades… don't think actually worth it. And how the fuck did you do GAB with this (even maybe lower I imagine) level of stealth? Crazy stuff.

And here's the feats:

You've missed probably the most controversial one: hit and run. Are you really satisfied with it so far? Because as I imagine it simply does nothing in most situations (you don't have contraction yet though).

As for Sharpshooter - meh. Especially it doesn't add up well with your precious hit-n-run. On the other hand, since you have aimed shot already…

 

[Grunker]

Arena rocks

It really is awesome. And half of it is down to the way it's set up - I can't help but think that Styg must have been greatly inspired by SLA Industries, the way the Network and The Arena works in the lore is very similar. It gives an amazing context for the fights and is way better set up than most throwaway arenas in these kinds of games.

I liked the fact that Arena was a place that didn't give you a chance to bear trap cheese and such

It's also a hilariously untrue statement. There are so many things in this game that'll kill you if you're not paying attention. Like - this man was upset about not being able to bear trap spam in the Arena, how did he feel the first time a Crawler crawled up his ass? Bear trap that, motherfucker

Sneaky bastards have it easier most of the game anyway. I'd say it's nice that the game forces them to come out of the shadows for once. And now it's not even obligatory thing to do anymore.

Exactly.

Your biggest mistake is to pumping TM w/o having the actual abilities - the price of playing blindly. Not sure about early chem/bio/tailor investments but that's rather me - I prefer to invest those in mercantile and just to buy any amount of molotovs that I need. Gas grenades… don't think actually worth it. And how the fuck did you do GAB with this (even maybe lower I imagine) level of stealth? Crazy stuff.

Hey, it's worked so far :D I imagine Interloper helps - it's kind of like +alot to Stealth, because as long as you meet the threshold to not get instaspotted, Interloper allows you to move past enemies who would spot you due to low stealth.

There was one insanely hard part of Depot A though - trying to stealth past the bots and turrets for the keycard. But I managed to work around it with EMP grenades and running circles around the bots, then EMP the turrets after all the bots were dead, then taking the keycard and running for dear life lol.

You've missed probably the most controversial one: hit and run. Are you really satisfied with it so far? Because as I imagine it simply does nothing in most situations (you don't have contraction yet though).

It is VERY hit or miss. In most fights it does very little, but in some fights that would otherwise be too hard it allows you to abuse cover. It works particularly well with Psycho-temporal Dilation - then you don't even need cover. Premeditation -> Psycho-temporal Dilation -> should the other guy, run away, remaning guy can't reach you. But that's not really why you get it with this build, I think. Reason you get it is to clear larger spaces in a single turn later on, which I imagine will be effective once I can one-shot. Especially if there are more open space fights later on.

But yeah, it's definitely not a powerful feat. I could see playing without it for sure.

Especially it doesn't add up well with your precious hit-n-run.

Sharpshooter works even when moving with pistols, no? Don't need to be focused.

 

[Grunker]

As for GAB, it sure was intense. There were two spots especially that were hard with low stealth: getting to the first gate without being spotted by the camera, and then once inside the place with the lube, my stealth was only big enough that I could *just* avoid getting insta-detected if I crept to the far far side of the wall until I got to the end. Junkyard Surprise + Lockpick Mk. 3 saved me from stealth sections that would otherwise be impossible (since I could get the second keycard by going through vents and then passing that 90 Lockpicking check).

EDIT: It's also fairly good vs. critter swarms. For example, I just fought some Warthogs, and Hit and Run allows me to effectively kind them for all the turns it takes to kill them (since I'm not powerful enough to room sweep yet, nowhere near in fact).

 

[jackofshadows]

Sharpshooter works even when moving with pistols, no? Don't need to be focused.

Yeah, my bad. Forgot about the 1.1.3.0 balance change.

But that's not really why you get it with this build, I think. Reason you get it is to clear larger spaces in a single turn later on, which I imagine will be effective once I can one-shot. Especially if there are more open space fights later on.

Sure but that also means it can be taken later on while taking something like Grenadier first. Minor stuff, anyway.

getting insta-detected

Yeah - that's the issue. I think the threshhold is around 100 effective sneak when you don't need to worry about that anymore and wait every "advanced" guard to really move away like in an actual stealth game.

 

[Grunker]

Sharpshooter works even when moving with pistols, no? Don't need to be focused.

Yeah, my bad. Forgot about the 1.1.3.0 balance change.

But that's not really why you get it with this build, I think. Reason you get it is to clear larger spaces in a single turn later on, which I imagine will be effective once I can one-shot. Especially if there are more open space fights later on.

Sure but that also means it can be taken later on while taking something like Grenadier first. Minor stuff, anyway.

getting insta-detected

Yeah - that's the issue. I think the threshhold is around 100 effective sneak when you don't need to worry about that anymore and wait every "advanced" guard to really move away like in an actual stealth game.

Which, incidentally, I just got :D

 

[Trashos]

Grunker, he specifically tells you to take the *eastern* platform south, which is correct. Admittedly, then he tells you some more details that can only confuse.

Gonna look at your build later. (Although I doubt I will be able to help, since I play full DEX with such builds.)
My early disagreements with a comment above is that gas grenades rock, and early Biology is fine (for adrenaline and, after Depot A, focus stim). I go early Biology all the time.

 

[Grunker]

Grunker, he specifically tells you to take the *eastern* platform south, which is correct. Admittedly, then he tells you some more details that can only confuse.

Gonna look at your build later. (Although I doubt I will be able to help, since I play full DEX with such builds.)
My early disagreements with a comment above is that gas grenades rock, and early Biology is fine (for adrenaline and, after Depot A, focus stim). I go early Biology all the time.

I'm pretty locked in at this point so it's probably too late to help me anyway I only posted the build if anyone was curious or for minor corrections if anyone have suggestions.

Gas Grenades have really been a godsent for a few encounters, yeah.

 

[jackofshadows]

focus stim

Mass production of that ^ is what biology mostly for imo but you won't have many ingredients for it early on. As for gas grenades - maybe I'm wrong but again - you need to collect those sludges first anyway. There's enough around for several encounters though.

 

[Grunker]

focus stim

Mass production of that ^ is what biology mostly for imo but you won't have many ingredients for it early on. As for gas grenades - maybe I'm wrong but again - you need to collect those sludges first anyway. There's enough around for several encounters though.

I found a couple at Al Fabet's shop

Also you need 55 Biology for crafting The Juice which I imagine can come in handy ^^

 

[Trashos]

There are plenty of gas grenade ingredients sold at SGS (mostly Quinton but also Harold), although I do not remember if they are sold very early.

You can make Juice or you can buy it (a bit expensive) from the Dude. Yes, the Juice is very useful. I usually invest in Bio till 80 effective (taking all bonuses into account) for Bullhead (protects from psi users), but some players don't like going that high in Bio. The Aegis drug at 60 is also useful.

 

[Grunker]

Why can't I increase my effective Mercantile above 90? When I put 62 skill points into the skill, it reaches 90, and putting further skill points into it seems to do nothing? Is it a synergy-related thing I don't get?

 

[Grunker]

bre

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Why can't I increase my effective Mercantile above 90? When I put 62 skill points into the skill, it reaches 90, and putting further skill points into it seems to do nothing? Is it a synergy-related thing I don't get?

Yeah, synergy can't increase a skill past whatever the cap on base points for your level is. Since you're level 16 that's 90. Your options are either to level more so the cap gets raised, or to go crazy and pump it until it breaks 90 on its own without needing synergy. Except don't do that, that's a waste of skill points.
The cap on synergy is a weird feature and I don't think the game ever explains it. I've seen it confuse a lot of people.

 

[Grunker]

Why can't I increase my effective Mercantile above 90? When I put 62 skill points into the skill, it reaches 90, and putting further skill points into it seems to do nothing? Is it a synergy-related thing I don't get?

Yeah, synergy can't increase a skill past whatever the cap on base points for your level is. Since you're level 16 that's 90. Your options are either to level more so the cap gets raised, or to go crazy and pump it until it breaks 90 on its own without needing synergy. Except don't do that, that's a waste of skill points.
The cap on synergy is a weird feature and I don't think the game ever explains it. I've seen it confuse a lot of people.

Makes sense, thanks!

 

[Trashos]

Hmmm... I think that the Hecate Research Outpost has been buffed. It took me >110 Trap Detection to be able to see most of the spider webs this time, and I do not remember it to be so difficult.

Spoiler

That's where the Power Fist resides, so I guess this was done to make obtaining the Power Fist more challenging. Or maybe spiders have been buffed in general, not sure yet. I was using this dungeon to get to lvl16 before starting the major quests, even though the spiders are a pain. It is still doable with a lot of patience, but I kinda want to find a different dungeon to reach lvl16.

 

[Tygrende]

Hmmm... I think that the Hecate Research Outpost has been buffed. It took me >110 Trap Detection to be able to see most of the spider webs this time, and I do not remember it to be so difficult.

Spoiler

That's where the Power Fist resides, so I guess this was done to make obtaining the Power Fist more challenging. Or maybe spiders have been buffed in general, not sure yet. I was using this dungeon to get to lvl16 before starting the major quests, even though the spiders are a pain. It is still doable with a lot of patience, but I kinda want to find a different dungeon to reach lvl16.

Maybe you had much lower normal detection this time (low PER, no paranoia, no goggles etc.? Trap detection has 2 formulas, your character will use whichever is higher:

• Pure detection equals 75% of regular detection value.
• Hybrid detection equals 50% of regular detection value plus 75% of effective trap skill.

 

[Trashos]

Tygrende, my usual (and also my recent) builds are either PER 3 or PER 6, and my current build is the latter, so my spiderweb troubles are not connected to my PER.

I usually am at lvl15 at Hecate (trying to get to lvl16), so it is not a level thing either.

I usually wear the coretech helmet there (50% increase in detection), so it is not a headgear thing.

EDIT: Also, my Traps skill is ~0 as it usually is.

This was the first time I ever had so much trouble seeing the webs. I killed all the spiders without leaving the initial room, then walked around (slowly) and got trapped on every freaking web there was. I leveled up with the Oddity that is next to the Power Fist, and THEN I could see the webs. Checking my combat stats (the "c" screen), leveling up took my trap detection from <110 to >110.

 

[ItsChon]

You haven't memorized all the traps in the game yet? What are you doing mate?

 

[ItsChon]

Phreak's Phones are decoded. This was a fucking fantastic puzzle, and you really get better as you do it. By the third phone, I was able to speed run through it without any mistakes, able to identify each of the three tones with only 1 or 2 replays. This is the kind of shit we need more of.

 

[Trashos]

Sigh. Rare, but is it annoying or what: random encounter with hostiles as soon as you move to a new screen, lose initiative even though your base initiative is pretty good, get killed before having the chance to do anything. I have been complaining about it for several years, and it was never fixed.

One of the usual culprits (who has killed me several times across my playthroughs) is the young beggar who tries to rob you. I know about him and I avoid him if I see him first, but he can also spawn on you when you move to a new screen. For example, he sometimes spawns right next to the elevator of the Core City docks. You take the elevator to the docks, he is right there, you lose initiative, you die.

(Not sure whether there is any dialogue choice that avoids the initiative roll and allows you to attack first, but I don't think there is? Anyway, it is a random encounter, and as such it is not easy to study.)

 

[Tigranes]

Phreak's Phones are decoded. This was a fucking fantastic puzzle, and you really get better as you do it. By the third phone, I was able to speed run through it without any mistakes, able to identify each of the three tones with only 1 or 2 replays. This is the kind of shit we need more of.

Eh. I had the same experience, but I would absolutely hate to do it every playthrough (including the spider + electroshock area). It comes down to if Underrail's going to be a murderhobo simulator moving forward or try to shore up its story and atmospheric experiences. An Infusion that had several sequences like Phreak Phones would be fine if I was playing it a couple of times, but not twenty.