Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[jackofshadows]

Not really. Just not sure what I gain from it with this build, since it so narrow anyway? Also what to cut

You dump per, max dex and gain more spare stats and minimal ap cost for pistols. Also the ability to use melee, especially if to take a few appropriate feats. Speaking of, I'd also suggest taking ambush (in that case more per is needed obv).

 

[Grunker]

Not really. Just not sure what I gain from it with this build, since it so narrow anyway? Also what to cut

You dump per, max dex and gain more spare stats and minimal ap cost for pistols. Also the ability to use melee, especially if to take a few appropriate feats. Speaking of, I'd also suggest taking ambush (in that case more per is needed obv).

Thanks. Brainfarted and didn't consider it would free up more stat points. I guess the primary cost is that early game will be horrible with the lacking Perception. But I guess that doesn't matter if I take Per 6 for Ambush anyway.

What would you cut for those two feats?

 

[Parabalus]

Not really. Just not sure what I gain from it with this build, since it so narrow anyway? Also what to cut

You dump per, max dex and gain more spare stats and minimal ap cost for pistols. Also the ability to use melee, especially if to take a few appropriate feats. Speaking of, I'd also suggest taking ambush (in that case more per is needed obv).

Thanks. Brainfarted and didn't consider it would free up more stat points. I guess the primary cost is that early game will be horrible with the lacking Perception. But I guess that doesn't matter if I take Per 6 for Ambush anyway.

What would you cut for those two feats?

You'll lose Scrutinous, that's one. From the rest prob Gun Nut is a weak link.

Early game is easier since with Versatility you can melee in the first few levels, saves money.

Apart from that later in the game don't forget you can use chemical pistols with very little drawbacks against foes with high mech DR/DT.

 

[Grunker]

Not really. Just not sure what I gain from it with this build, since it so narrow anyway? Also what to cut

You dump per, max dex and gain more spare stats and minimal ap cost for pistols. Also the ability to use melee, especially if to take a few appropriate feats. Speaking of, I'd also suggest taking ambush (in that case more per is needed obv).

Thanks. Brainfarted and didn't consider it would free up more stat points. I guess the primary cost is that early game will be horrible with the lacking Perception. But I guess that doesn't matter if I take Per 6 for Ambush anyway.

What would you cut for those two feats?

You'll lose Scrutinous, that's one. From the rest prob Gun Nut is a weak link.

Early game is easier since with Versatility you can melee in the first few levels, saves money.

Apart from that later in the game don't forget you can use chemical pistols with very little drawbacks against foes with high mech DR/DT.

Ooooof, losing Scrutinous hurts. Hadn't considered that. Then again Level 26 is basically "game's over" time

 

[jackofshadows]

What would you cut for those two feats?

Well, for starters it's entirely possible to play w/o qol feats such as interloper and pack rathound. Rapid fire and point shot are simply too weak imo. Hit and run - not sure what's the point tbh - contraction will always provide with extra MP (+drugs if needed). Premeditation - useful but also can be easily cut.

Scrutinous is very nice but it's like a bonus for strictly per oriented builds like sniper/xbow and you really need dex.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Anyone uses the Chainsword yet?

 

[Grunker]

What would you cut for those two feats?

Well, for starters it's entirely possible to play w/o qol feats such as interloper and pack rathound. Rapid fire and point shot are simply too weak imo. Hit and run - not sure what's the point tbh - contraction will always provide with extra MP (+drugs if needed). Premeditation - useful but also can be easily cut.

Scrutinous is very nice but it's like a bonus for strictly per oriented builds like sniper/xbow and you really need dex.

If I run ambush I won't get *that* much more dex tho. 2 points.

EDIT: Nevermind. I forgot all the added points. That's a ton more.

 

[Tygrende]

Hit and run - not sure what's the point tbh

It's secretly a very strong feat, especially if you can afford to spec it. If you're at a point where you can easily kill a lot of things in a turn AP-wise, it will give you an order of magnitude more MP than anything else would to reach your full killing potential. If you spec it it's 40 MP per kill, so you can easily end up having anywhere from a couple hundred to even 4 digit MP in one turn.

Made a vid that showcases this recently. It uses broken laser cats so it can kill a lot more things that you normally could, but you can get somewhat close to this with firearm pistols actually. I have gained about 1000 MP and walked over 100 tiles in one turn with it.

 

[Grunker]

Not really. Just not sure what I gain from it with this build, since it so narrow anyway? Also what to cut

You dump per, max dex and gain more spare stats and minimal ap cost for pistols. Also the ability to use melee, especially if to take a few appropriate feats. Speaking of, I'd also suggest taking ambush (in that case more per is needed obv).

Thanks. Brainfarted and didn't consider it would free up more stat points. I guess the primary cost is that early game will be horrible with the lacking Perception. But I guess that doesn't matter if I take Per 6 for Ambush anyway.

What would you cut for those two feats?

Early game is easier since with Versatility

Yeah okay, my early game is currently easier on Dominating than my trial run on hard lol

 

[jackofshadows]

Hit and run - not sure what's the point tbh

It's secretly a very strong feat, especially if you can afford to spec it. If you're at a point where you can easily kill a lot of things in a turn AP-wise, it will give you an order of magnitude more MP than anything else would to reach your full killing potential. If you spec it it's 40 MP per kill, so you can easily end up having anywhere from a couple hundred to even 4 digit MP in one turn.

Made a vid that showcases this recently. It uses broken laser cats so it can kill a lot more things that you normally could, but you can get somewhat close to this with firearm pistols actually. I have gained about 1000 MP and walked over 100 tiles in one turn with it.

I'm not saying the feat is weak but it's kinda excessive for pistolero plus yeah, with versatility you'd rather spend those spec points on something else like bullet time. Melee builds are another story I imagine. Nice vid, anyway.

 

[lukaszek]

if you want versatile pistolero, here is something i found in my files
https://underrail.info/build/?GAMQC...ABLwqMXHSYGEwsRw5HDkksSwp4aR8KF4rWuBOK9hAXfvw
looks like fun experience with both cutthroat and execute, utilising both knives and pistols.

hit n run is ok, but im biased towards fancy footwork

 

[Tygrende]

I'm not saying the feat is weak but it's kinda excessive for pistolero plus yeah, with versatility you'd rather spend those spec points on something else like bullet time. Melee builds are another story I imagine. Nice vid, anyway.

Well it depends on what we consider as "excessive". You don't need it if you're just gonna wait for enemies to come to you, but if you want to assert dominance and kill (almost) everything on the map before it even has a chance to move, hit and run is basically the only way to do that.

I agree pistols probably don't have the points to spec it though, 10 in vers and 5 in bullet time is pretty set in stone, at best you can spare a point or two from vers on something but even that's a stretch. That said 25 MP per kill is still decent and pistols can really make great use of it - you can shoot a 9mm hammerer at 4 AP with specced bullet time and 19 DEX. Assuming 105 AP (contraction, coke, lowest 10 AP refund from rapid reloader) that's potentially over 20 kills in a turn, with 500 MP to reach them all.

 

[Grunker]

I'm not saying the feat is weak but it's kinda excessive for pistolero plus yeah, with versatility you'd rather spend those spec points on something else like bullet time. Melee builds are another story I imagine. Nice vid, anyway.

Well it depends on what we consider as "excessive". You don't need it if you're just gonna wait for enemies to come to you, but if you want to assert dominance and kill (almost) everything on the map before it even has a chance to move, hit and run is basically the only way to do that.

I agree pistols probably don't have the points to spec it though, 10 in vers and 5 in bullet time is pretty set in stone, at best you can spare a point or two from vers on something but even that's a stretch. That said 25 MP per kill is still decent and pistols can really make great use of it - you can shoot a 9mm hammerer at 4 AP with specced bullet time and 19 DEX. Assuming 105 AP (contraction, coke, lowest 10 AP refund from rapid reloader) that's potentially over 20 kills in a turn, with 500 MP to reach them all.

Why is speccing Versatility so important? At that point, do you really get that much from extra effective skill in your secondary weapon skills?

My logic was basically what you're saying - Pistols are more effective up close, Hit and run should effectively allow you more kills per turn by getting from enemy to enemy. I was planning to spec it, but even if you don't, surely the body count at End of Turn goes up when you can move between them that much more easily.

 

[lukaszek]

Why is speccing Versatility so important? At that point, do you really get that much from extra effective skill in your secondary weapon skills?

effective respective skill doesnt govern just hit chance, but also dmg

 

[Grunker]

Why is speccing Versatility so important? At that point, do you really get that much from extra effective skill in your secondary weapon skills?

effective respective skill doesnt govern just hit chance, but also dmg

And skilling versatility is enough for those weapons to be effective in late game as well?

Anyway, I've got some spare feats after removing the actives... opinions? Currently list looks like this (not necessarily in that order), opinions?:

1. Gunslinger
2. Ambush
3. Versatility
4. Hit and Run
5. Recklessness
6. Gun Nut
7. Pack Rathhound
8. Interloper
9. Premeditation
10. Fatal Throw
11. Sharpshooter
12. Bullet Time
13. Critical Power
14. Blindsiding
15. Increased Dexterity
16. ?
17. ?

Also open for removing Pack Rathhound, Gun Nut and maybe Premeditation if there's something else enticing.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Consider Grenadier. The tall DEX requirement for Pure Pistols bleeds over into Throwing, which is applicable to both throwing knives and throwing grenades.

Rapid Fire, also. Helps lay-out pistols' effectiveness as close range weapons.

 

[Grunker]

Consider Grenadier. The tall DEX requirement for Pure Pistols bleeds over into Throwing, which is applicable to both throwing knives and throwing grenades.

Rapid Fire, also. Helps lay-out pistols' effectiveness as close range weapons.

Grenadier seems great, I'll consider it.

I picked Rapid Fire, but:

Rapid fire and point shot are simply too weak imo.

And upon consideration I think I can see jack's logic. Once the build starts kicking your normal turns have such oomph that these actives seem like a minor boon at best?

 

[lukaszek]

And skilling versatility is enough for those weapons to be effective in late game as well?

even without speccing it will be fine.
At level 24, speccing 9 points into versatility translates into 47 extra in guns, 30% increase.

those 47 points also translate to base_damage*0.33

 

[Grunker]

And skilling versatility is enough for those weapons to be effective in late game as well?

even without speccing it will be fine.
At level 24, speccing 9 points into versatility translates into 47 extra in guns, 30% increase.

those 47 points also translate to base_damage*0.33

But guns is what I'm maxing?

 

[lukaszek]

And skilling versatility is enough for those weapons to be effective in late game as well?

even without speccing it will be fine.
At level 24, speccing 9 points into versatility translates into 47 extra in guns, 30% increase.

those 47 points also translate to base_damage*0.33

But guns is what I'm maxing?

no. You max dex which increases melee. You max melee.
Versatility translates that into guns. You pick enough in guns skill to unlock feats(which versatility doesnt do). This way you can run with 3 PER.
This synergy is even better on energy/chemical pistols where you invest almost no gun skill points

 

[Grunker]

And skilling versatility is enough for those weapons to be effective in late game as well?

even without speccing it will be fine.
At level 24, speccing 9 points into versatility translates into 47 extra in guns, 30% increase.

those 47 points also translate to base_damage*0.33

But guns is what I'm maxing?

no. You max dex which increases melee. You max melee.

Doh, you're right. I didn't fully understand how the interaction worked with Dex scaling.

jackofshadows however recommended 6 PER for Amubsh, which seems like a fun feat.

 

[lukaszek]

@jackofshadows however recommended 6 PER for Amubsh, which seems like a fun feat.

there is also steadfast aim if you go after desert eagle unique pistol, requires lower str investment than per for ambush

 

[Grunker]

hnnnnnng what do i do

 

[lukaszek]

hnnnnnng what do i do

my advise is always to pick your larp and have fun with it.
You dont need ambush. If it sounds fun for you, go get it. If you want execute/cutthroat - go get it

 

[Trashos]

Ambush is a lot of fun, it is one of my favorite feats in any game ever. It is not useful in all situations (it needs darkness), but when it is on, it is ON! I say try it.

I can never bring myself to make the Steadfast Aim investment.