Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Grunker]

Realistically the only difference between the systems is flavour text

Not only does it solve the problem mission XP solves by making all paths to victory viable, it additionally helps to encourage further exploration and allows the designer to grant mission-like properties to exploration that isn't tied to quests. It's like mission XP without any of the downsides mission XP have.

And that's just the fundamental advantages.

 

[Trashos]

Looting pig arse #3 to get 1 Oddity XP provides a similar rush though.

Yes, but that's adrenaline rush for exploration, not combat. They will have to come up with decent combat, which for most developers is mission impossible.

Other major differences were mentioned above by others.

 

[Parabalus]

Realistically the only difference between the systems is flavour text

Not only does it solve the problem mission XP solves by making all paths to victory viable, it additionally helps to encourage further exploration and allows the designer to grant mission-like properties to exploration that isn't tied to quests. It's like mission XP without any of the downsides mission XP have.

And that's just the fundamental advantages.

Classic gives XP for exploration too, in the form of skill usage.

Both systems give you XP for just playing the game.

Were the XP given out more balanced Oddity would actually encourage murderhobo and grinding more, since many Oddites are randoms drops, whereas Classic XP is fungible and you can make up for missing XP by doing other stuff.

 

[Grunker]

Yes, classic encourages engaging in an activity - whereas oddity doesn't give a shit what activity you engage in. Ideally you should be able to find the oddities on enemies other places, but that's an implementation and not a systems flaw.

 

[Trashos]

Killing is not a fundamental part of the Oddity system. The fact that in UR you get some oddities only by killing is a design decision. You can completely separate leveling up from killing in the Oddity system. in which case stealth and social skills become equal to killing (almost equal, as there is also the loot problem). Classic XP does not solve this problem to any decent degree, and the optimal way of doing things in Classic is killing or solving the quest peacefully and then going back and kill everyone.

 

[Parabalus]

Yes, classic encourages engaging in an activity - whereas oddity doesn't give a shit what activity you engage in. Ideally you should be able to find the oddities on enemies other places, but that's an implementation and not a systems flaw.

How does classic give a shit what activity you engage in?

Oddity is the one which gates XP behind hard skill checks and/or story choices - classic doesn't care what you do, you get XP.

Killing is not a fundamental part of the Oddity system. The fact that in UR you get some oddities only by killing is a design decision. You can completely separate leveling up from killing in the Oddity system. in which case stealth and social skills become equal to killing (almost equal, as there is also the loot problem). Classic XP does not solve this problem to any decent degree, and the optimal way of doing things in Classic is killing or solving the quest peacefully and then going back and kill everyone.

Don't think I've ever had that happen in UR, maybe some other games?

If anything killing friendlies for XP is more useful on Oddity, since if you don't have pickpocket you have to whack them, whereas in Classic you can just get your fungible XP somewhere else.

 

[Tygrende]

Oddity is the one which gates XP behind hard skill checks and/or story choices - classic doesn't care what you do, you get XP.

I don't think I could do a pacifist run on classic. On oddity you are actually ahead of the curve in the very early game thanks to being able to steal oddities and stealth into places way sooner, then later you're consistently a a few levels behind and should end the game at least at level 26, probably 28 and maybe even 30 in DC. Oddity is objectively more inclusive and accommodating of different playstyles.

 

[Grunker]

Yes, classic encourages engaging in an activity - whereas oddity doesn't give a shit what activity you engage in. Ideally you should be able to find the oddities on enemies other places, but that's an implementation and not a systems flaw.

How does classic give a shit what activity you engage in?

I don't think you'd have a good time on Classic if you didn't kill a ton of shit

And your point that Oddity gives XP for kills is kind of bullshit. I never felt I would gain much from killing an enemy I didn't want to, because I knew I'd have the chance later and unlike with Classic, you don't gain much from a murder spree.

 

[Hag]

Funny how gaining a level can make a difference. Put one point in STR to 6, got a nice steel spear, now with opportunist and telekinetic grounding my damage output is through the roof. Psychokinesis is awesome for map control, the rathound King and its minion where easily dispatched. Wasted a lone death stalker uninjured. Bought a shield emitter, now those burrowers can't touch me anymore. Closing to level 13, still haven't visited Core City.

I really enjoyed Camp Hathor quests. After the Gray Army hell, short and intense missions full of oddities were what I needed most. Can't wait to come back to the underpassages and explained to those bandits how you do it.

 

[Hag]

Shops is one of the things that annoyed me with Underrail, and I hope they get change in future Underrail games.

I like them. Too many games let you dump all the trash you've hoarded on the first merchant and get a shitload of cash. Here you know you won't be able to sell many items, which forces you to decide what is worth picking up and what will be easy to sell. Since your money is limited, each purchase of equipment has to be thought.

For a Spear build with psionics, you'll need points in pretty much everything except perception. Regardless, I'll see what I can whip up.

Good, looks like that's what I'm coming too.

 

[Grunker]

Shops is one of the things that annoyed me with Underrail, and I hope they get change in future Underrail games.

I like them. Too many games let you dump all the trash you've hoarded on the first merchant and get a shitload of cash.

I thought we already established that it's not about the restrictions on selling but on the constant retreading of multiple screens, so why even bring up this point?

 

[Grunker]

A ways into the expansion now, I cannot BEGIN to believe what utter cancer meleeing locusts must be

F for you guys

 

[Blaine]

I just had a sense of reading some frustrated posts by you about progressing with Spear + Shield on Dom, but maybe I made that up. Just out of curiosity, could you link your build?

I read somewhere that the shield doesn’t help against ranged attacks, seems kind of bullshit - the build would probably be less great than glass cannon builds even if it did.

I've never played on Dominating, so that definitely wasn't me. My hoplite build is a few years old, so I might have to dig up a save file if a link to the build can't be easily searched up in this thread.

I agree regarding shields providing no protection against ranged attacks, particularly since the only shield in the game is a riot shield; real-life riot shields can and do provide protection from small-arms fire, shrapnel, thrown objects, etc.

You know what doesn't provide a defense against small-arms fire in the real world? Matrix-style bullet-dodging, but by God we've got it!

 

[Grunker]

I just had a sense of reading some frustrated posts by you about progressing with Spear + Shield on Dom, but maybe I made that up. Just out of curiosity, could you link your build?

I read somewhere that the shield doesn’t help against ranged attacks, seems kind of bullshit - the build would probably be less great than glass cannon builds even if it did.

I've never played on Dominating, so that definitely wasn't me. My hoplite build is a few years old, so I might have to dig up a save file if a link to the build can't be easily searched up in this thread.

I agree regarding shields providing no protection against ranged attacks, particularly since the only shield in the game is a riot shield; real-life riot shields can and do provide protection from small-arms fire, shrapnel, thrown objects, etc.

You know what doesn't provide a defense against small-arms fire in the real world? Matrix-style bullet-dodging, but by God we've got it!

Exactly, that's what I'm refering to. You got this big ass barn door that is principally made not to protect you from a knife or a sword (because guess what people that use riot shields don't get attacked by those...) but to shield you - and people behind you, btw - from small arms fire, thrown bottles and bricks, lol. But more than that it seems counterintuitive to the style of play. People stretch their feats for mobility and skills for energy shield crafting because your biggest problem with these builds is getting to ranged enemies. So you deciding to eschew damage in favor of protection with a shield is protecting you against the least of your problems - other melee characters - while doing nothing to help you against the thing you're trying to itemize for :D

Seems a massive oversight in a system that aside from a few kinks and whatever personal issues you may have with it is very, very tightly designed - especially compared to most other RPG systems. I could understand it if shields were already meta, but it sure don't seem like it

 

[Grunker]

Is the towing mechanic supposed to be ass? It's basically unusable - town jetskis detach unless I move one square at a time

EDIT: According to Styg himself it's a bug. Apparantly it didn't get fixed.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/250520/discussions/0/2936867947878371097/

 

[Trashos]

If anything killing friendlies for XP is more useful on Oddity, since if you don't have pickpocket you have to whack them, whereas in Classic you can just get your fungible XP somewhere else.

That's like 15XP in the whole game?! But, like I said, that has absolutely nothing to do with the Oddity system fundamentally, it is a design choice. The motivation to kill-kill-kill is FUNDAMENTAL to the Classic system.

We don't have to go far. In UR, what is stopping you from killing Milton for the XP on Classic after doing his quest? Or what is stopping you from genociding any town (eg, Junkyard) once you don't need it anymore? Yes, in open world games with respawning enemies you can easily overlevel otherwise, but that is not a reasonable solution to the problem, it is an additional problem!

Or, say, in New Vegas, what is stopping you from genociding Goodsprings for the XP after you have done its quests? (assuming you have sided with Goodsprings in its quest)

 

[Abu Antar]

Hag I don't mind that different stores only buy certain things. What bothered me was having to wait for them to restock on items.

Grunker While I didn't play on dominating with my monk dude, I think it is manageable if you build your dude correctly. Extra bonus if you throw a couple of grenades/molotovs or w/e before engaging.

 

[lukaszek]

lack of metagame knowledge? there might be more quests in hiding later on

 

[Grunker]

Bug?

 

[Abu Antar]

Bug?

I never encountered that in 150 hours of play. Try verifying files on Steam. Or restart the game.

 

[Trashos]

lack of metagame knowledge? there might be more quests in hiding later on

There is no lack of metagame knowledge in any playthrough after the 1st. Not good enough!

Grunker,
Yeah, I have never seen that.

 

[Grunker]

Validation didn't do much, and my game takes longer to boot than it did before (from instant to a few secs). Oh well, backed up my saves and fingers crossed that the game doesn't corrupt before the end.

 

[lukaszek]

There is no lack of metagame knowledge in any playthrough after the 1st. Not good enough!

just how many times did you replay new vegas?

 

[Trashos]

just how many times did you replay new vegas?

Not sure, around 20 full playthroughs this far.

 

[Tigranes]

A ways into the expansion now, I cannot BEGIN to believe what utter cancer meleeing locusts must be

F for you guys

Carry grenades, and/or destroy hives superfast in one turn to prevent spawn.

I always fantasised about superhigh stealth and then planting TNT next to the hives, but (1) you need a lot of stealth, (2) a TNT, it turns out, doesn't one-hit the hives...