Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[fredsteel]

Poor men, I wish I had never completed Vivian's questline.

 

[Trashos]

So, I am doing my Falchion playthrough. I am getting tons of Rogue Plasma Bots random encounters. I may have gotten like 5-6 of them already.

I wonder if this is a coincidence or is it due to something I have (or haven't) done. I don't think I have seen this before (ie, getting so many of them).

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

That's weird. Is that an Expedition or hard difficulty thing? On Normal Vanilla I rarely got random encounters like that.

 

[Trashos]

This is on Expedition/Dominating. It hasn't happened to me before (and I have done many playthroughs with the latest version).

Something sorta like this happens with mutants after a certain quest of a certain faction. But I haven't seen it with robots before.

 

[Trashos]

Constantine is selling a "headwear" with a question mark instead of a picture. It costs 1 charon. Is that a bug maybe?
I bought it and wore it in case it turns into something, but it doesn't. Constantine does not have dialogue about it. Neither does Azif.

-----
My Falchion playthrough (9mm, versatility, SI) has been going great. Of course it would, pistols are very strong, and I am experienced with them. The 5% additional critical chance feels good in practice, since it brings my critical chance close to (and eventually at) 100%.

However, the math is not in Falchion's favor. Great as it is, it is on average inferior to the Hammerer's increased critical damage (which is further aided by Critical Power, while Critical Power is useless to a versatility Falchion).

To me it looks like Falchion's design assumes that the player will FIRST try to reach 100% critical chance, and only THEN increase critical damage. Under this assumption, Falchion's +5% critical chance saves 5 spec points from SI/Reckless that can go into something else. Maybe I could see the design's point for a PER build (ie, if you absolutely want a crit on your special attack).

I still think that the Falchion needs a buff. Not because it is not good, but in order to be more competitive to the Hammerer. The Hammerer is the pistol for 0.44 anyway, so it would be nice if for 9mm the Falchion were strictly better than the Hammerer.

With versatility builds in mind (I will let others speak for PER builds), my wish and suggestion would be that the Falchion retains its 15% critical chance, and it is also given +2 magazine capacity (ie, magazine capacity of 14 for 9mm).

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Constantine is selling a "headwear" with a question mark instead of a picture. It costs 1 charon. Is that a bug maybe?
I bought it and wore it in case it turns into something, but it doesn't. Constantine does not have dialogue about it. Neither does Azif.

Yeah, that means something's gone wrong. If you try verifying game files or reinstalling it may turn it into a real item. Probably one of the uniques since if it was a more common item you would have noticed it earlier. Jumping stilts used to be bugged and always appeared like that but that was meant to be have been patched. Not sure if it's somehow come back or what.
I've seen people mention getting that bug with the claymore. That one's funny because it means MacLander has to try and punch you since his sword doesn't work.

 

[Trashos]

I am getting tons of Rogue Plasma Bots random encounters. I may have gotten like 5-6 of them already.

I wonder if this is a coincidence or is it due to something I have (or haven't) done. I don't think I have seen this before (ie, getting so many of them).

OK, mystery solved. It was the random event "Robot Patrol".

------------------
Wow, in this playthrough I got neither Otto nor Lundelof. I only got the Hopperdrome. Those are 2 oddity points I am not getting in this playthrough. Fucking random BS.

 

[Trashos]

Various criticisms (and a couple of positives):

- First of all, let me preface the below by saying that I am upgrading my grade for Underrail from 9 to 9.5. The only other videogame I have ever given such a high grade to is Civ IV. This absolutely DOES NOT mean that Underrail doesn't get on my nerves sometimes.

- Not having to go to Arke twice (with the right build) is a great change.

- Second time I did the Abandoned Waterway Facility, and I am starting to like it. I still feel it is a bit too long, but it is good anyway.

- Jet Ski platforms (the ones that help you jump) are awesome. Wiiiiiii

- I do not like jet ski vs jet ski combat. The worst offender is enemies throwing EMP grenades. It is the equivalent of giving most enemies EMP grenades in land combat.
Now, why wasn't this done? Because it is just not fun gameplay. Well, it is not fun gameplay in jet ski combat either. I believe that EMP grenades should be kept just for special enemies.

- Getting through the Fetid Marsh is intense. Having to go through respawned spiders (that I have killed before!) after the end of the Fetid Marsh is a bit too much. I just went through the Fetid Marsh, leave me the fuck alone. I did appreciate the junk jet waiting for the player there, though.

 

[lukaszek]

- I do not like jet ski vs jet ski combat. The worst offender is enemies throwing EMP grenades. It is the equivalent of giving most enemies EMP grenades in land combat.
Now, why wasn't this done? Because it is just not fun gameplay. Well, it is not fun gameplay in jet ski combat either. I believe that EMP grenades should be kept just for special enemies.

interesting... I must say I know very little about jet ski combat. You see, very early I realized that 'be-no-there' works very well and improved on that tactic. There are no enemies that can outrun you in water

 

[Trashos]

There are no enemies that can outrun you in water

Well, some enemies appear and attack out of nowhere. In the Abandoned Waterway Facility where am I supposed to run to anyway? It is relatively closed space, and there are bunches of enemy jet skiers scattered around. Some are patrolling, I don't even know where they are exactly. My solution is to avoid sea combat entirely and attack the skiers from land.

What do you think about the EMP grenades thing?

 

[lukaszek]

What do you think about the EMP grenades thing?

oh yeah they suck. Not sure what was your difficulty, on higher ones its death from single grenade.
Never understood that one, did styg want to penalize players for carrying extra toys? Even if you did survive on water, how are you supposed to have combat without juice?

My solution is to avoid sea combat entirely and attack the skiers from land.

thats what I did. Went through water facillity just once and I think it was on my stabby. Or perhaps stabby with lazors

 

[Grunker]

Poor men, I wish I had never completed Vivian's questline.

I love it.

Spoiler

Classic UnderRail to set up a giddy companion character only to pull out the rug from under us unceremoniously.

I bet a lot of average players got very mad at that ending.

 

[Zariusz]

- Getting through the Fetid Marsh is intense. Having to go through respawned spiders (that I have killed before!) after the end of the Fetid Marsh is a bit too much. I just went through the Fetid Marsh, leave me the fuck alone. I did appreciate the junk jet waiting for the player there, though.

Hah i remember when i had to go through that shithole, after few attempts i formulated my strategy to quickly spam hives with out of combat sniper shots from far enough so bugs would not engage in combat. I had to go back to base many times for repair parts (at certain moment i even stopped playing for few months because i was tired of all that bug shit) and then return avoiding snakes and helping with savage attacks. Positive side of all of that work was that kebab bug removal was permament.

 

[CHEMS]

MUH VIVIAN

 

[Zeem]

MUH VIVIAN

>she

 

[Trashos]

Post-Expedition thoughts on Blitz:

Blitz has lost half its shine, because it does not transfer through Stasis. So if you are planning your build based on a powerful 2-turn (with Stasis) initial assault, Blitz still gives you just 20 AP total for these 2 turns. On the basis of a 2-turn assault, that's just 10 AP/turn.

Several other abilities have doubled their power with Stasis, while Blitz didn't. To me it looks like Blitz could use a buff. It has a 10 AG requirement, and it should be awesome.

 

[ghostlife]

Why the fuck does Expedition change half the enemies in the dog variation of water treatment plant into pitbulls? They are way too difficult of an enemy for that zone

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Fuck. I'm getting the itch again...

 

[Zeem]

Why the fuck does Expedition change half the enemies in the dog variation of water treatment plant into pitbulls? They are way too difficult of an enemy for that zone

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Why the fuck does Expedition change half the enemies in the dog variation of water treatment plant into pitbulls? They are way too difficult of an enemy for that zone

The random encounter ones are even worse. You go through an area transition and oh, there's a pack of pitbulls camping the entrance. And since you just went through a transition you have an initiative penalty, so you're almost guaranteed to go last, so you have to tank like 25 bites. Have fun taking 1000+ damage, sure hope you have good DT.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Managed to kill those water tratment facility pitbulls recently with molotov+caltrop spam.

Also, I've been playing a pure metathermics psychosis build, it's powerful but sometimes dies horribly when crit orb fireball can't finish enemies off.
I'm at level 18 and heading towards the Coretech research facility event, still haven't got plasma beam so I just can't fight industrial bots. Got past the one in Panacea lab by baiting it into a side room and then shutting the door in its face. Most of the playthrough has involved that kind of sneaky tactic versus bots.

Attributes are: STR 8, CON 10, Wis 10++, the rest dumped. But on Dominating enemies hit so hard that even Conditioning 10 CON and heavy armour is not as good as simply LOS abusing with ninja tabis, so I guess I should've gone agi/dex. Maybe I will change my tune when I start crafting high quality armour. I wanted to talk to Cornell and then kill him, but he completely melts me without good acid armour, and I think I would've needed CAU armour/boots to survive it. But without plasma beam I can't fight through the Epione Lab Free Drones mission to get it: and I think I can only reliably get Plasma Beam by progressing the storyline and accessing that lunatic area that connects to the Institute. So instead of tanking the Acid Hunters with an 8 Str 10 Con build I ended up using crawler caltrops, molotovs and LOS abuse anyway instead of talking to them.

This is my first playthrough without lockpicking and it seems fine so far, the lost oddities are compensated by the freed-up skill points. Seems like lockpicking is balanced, such that it's worth if you have DEX and not worth if you don't. Still greatly enjoying having pickpocketing though.

3 INT was probably a mistake, not sure. Crafting skills suck at 3 INT and only 3 Psi skills to use (using cryokinesis, fireball, and Orb). Tried the Beast fight with 50 bear traps and burrower poison caltrops, still died because no plasma beam and no throwing/grenadier. So far the STR 8 / CON 10 part of this build has not been used very much, only a few enemies are weak enough to be stymied by non-crafted metal armour. The carry capacity is VERY nice, as I'm still psychologically adjusting to the idea that you don't need to loot every gun and sell it. Splitting the str/con attribute points across INT/DEX/AGI would've been much smoother, but still looking forward to tanking stuff later on. Such as Nagas, it's ironic (given how tough they are) that they can also be massively tanked with blast cloth crafted armour.

Also I think I know the two things I dislike most about the game now that I'm halfway through 3rd full playthrough (not counting abandoned ones)
-accuracy cap on grenades/metathermics AoE (also sniper shots most likely, but haven't played sniper or crossbow yet)
-certain skills having ideal cutoff points which can be metagamed (especially Mercantile and Persuasion)
-SGS' limited interaction with the rest of the game world. The Black Eels gang fight, retaking the outpost, and asking the experts at SGS to examine Foundry mine creatures and Hercules drug are all really cool, but that's as far as it goes.

There's no gameplay interaction (ie linking quests) between SGS and the Oligarchs, SGS and Ironheads, SGS and lurkers (except that funny little quest earlygame), SGS and Free Drones/Protectorate (except delivering some trade docs, zzz). Similarly, no quest where you're a go-between between Oligarchs and Foundry, and no quests at all linking Rail Crossing to the rest of the world except for Tanner telling you to check them out, and the Free Drones/Protectorate choice. I think the game could've really used a Foundry/SGS team fight against Ironheads; there's very few allied fights in the game, and they are all quite cool even the Expedition beach fights which somewhat outstay their welcome. "Hey, it would be cool if you could go kill Balor by yourself, we'd pay 1,000 charons" is crazy RPG protagonist shit.

The setting is excellent, but it's very siloed in terms of gameplay. Tchort Institute, Faceless, Deep Caverns ruins, Pirates, serpent-savages all are total black boxes to almost everyone in Underrail. With factions like West Underrail and Oculus, not to mention the "true nature" of the main plot and its antagonist/protagonist (not counting player char) mystery is a more thoroughly developed theme in the game than connection is, which is ironic given the connective nature of "rails" in "Underrail".

The peak of this problem is represented by the SGS leadership. Ezra is a solid figure in the leadership, but I don't quite grasp why he's silent in the debate on whether to establish an SGS foothold in Junkyard via the gang fight. You can find explanations for his pointed silence, which make sense for his individual character, but an "SGS agenda" would've been cool. Obviously, Tanner has a similar problem of not having an "SGS agenda". But it's not just those two but also Gorsky, the lead military figure in SGS, who just leaves to indulge in a gang war in the Drop Zone. You could almost make fun of bureaucrat Vera Hale and old man Jonas being the only ones with an active and thorough interest.

I still like how SGS is used in the game, as the starting-off point for the character and the storyline, but it's the best example of how the game world is frustratingly less interconnected than it could be. My favourite part of the game is when it is highly interconnected, like with the wacky secret routes opened up by Phreak, or the remarkably few screen transitions needed to walk from Core City to SGS via underpassages, or when you're exploring via jetski and find yourself on a map that is part of the land route from SGS to Mushroom Cove that you walked at level 4, and the secret entrances/exits into the Institute of Tchort.

 

[ItsChon]

Attributes are: STR 8, CON 10, Wis 10++, the rest dumped. But on Dominating enemies hit so hard that even Conditioning 10 CON and heavy armour is not as good as simply LOS abusing with ninja tabis, so I guess I should've gone agi/dex. Maybe I will change my tune when I start crafting high quality armour.

When playing a tank build on dominating, getting your first piece of crafted metal armor feels amazing. My Metathermics Tank Sledgehammer only had nine con and I still felt pretty tanky on dominating. If I wanted to powergame I could have added TM and been even tankier with Stasis. Also, if you're not already using them, drugs are a must on a tank character. Aegis + Morphine + Last Stand will make you extremely hard to kill for four turns, which along with the initial few turns you will get from your natural lankiness and initiating combat, should be more than adequate to deal any encounter while still feeling like you're sticking true to the actual tank experience. It is a ton of fun, and I actually really enjoy playing a tank character, and the fact that Underrail was actually able to pull that off is very impressive.

Also I think I know the two things I dislike most about the game now that I'm halfway through 3rd full playthrough (not counting abandoned ones)
-accuracy cap on grenades/metathermics AoE (also sniper shots most likely, but haven't played sniper or crossbow yet)

I think the idea of an accuracy cap is actually good, and the current way it is implemented rarely bothers me. That being said, I do think it would be an improvement if the cap was raised anywhere from 97-99%. Styg could require an exponential increase in stats to eke out the last few percentage points for balancing purpose.

-certain skills having ideal cutoff points which can be metagamed (especially Mercantile and Persuasion)

I don't see anything wrong with this. How would you even change/"fix" this?

-SGS' limited interaction with the rest of the game world. The Black Eels gang fight, retaking the outpost, and asking the experts at SGS to examine Foundry mine creatures and Hercules drug are all really cool, but that's as far as it goes.

Eh I have to hard disagree here.

There's no gameplay interaction (ie linking quests) between SGS and the Oligarchs, SGS and Ironheads, SGS and lurkers (except that funny little quest earlygame), SGS and Free Drones/Protectorate (except delivering some trade docs, zzz).

Gorsky is literally the linking quest between SGS and the Oligarchs. Despite the fact that he ends up abandoning his allegiance to SGS, this is definitely a link between SGS and the Oligarchs. As for the Ironheads, their territory is far away from SGS, why would there be any interactions between the two factions? In addition, having the Ironheads to keep the Foundry in check is probably a good thing for SGS, as it helps maintain the precarious balance of power in Southern Underrail. As for the lurkers, there is a quest linking them, but again, Lurker territory is not near SGS. Although Lurkers can be found a few zones away from SGS, I have always considered some of the zone transitions to indicate hours passing versus being directly adjacent to each other.

SGS is considered one of the safest locations in Southern Underrail for a reason, and for them to be so selective when taking in new residents, they must have something going for them. Lurkers or Ironheads would not be able to get close to SGS because they would be put down by SGS's outer patrols as well as their general defenses. We see these very same patrols in the Omega outposts we took at the beginning of the game, and I'm sure there are other patrols in universe that we don't see in all the levels that SGS spans.

Finally, it is made clear that SGS is clearly upholding a policy of neutrality in regards to the Protectorate, so why would there be any quests linking the two factions?

You have to understand that in-universe, I'm sure there are interactions between SGS and all the factions you listed above. Our character just has nothing to do with said interactions, and it would probably be unrealistic/immersion breaking if we were given random bullshit tasks. Delivering trade documents was the exception, not the rule, and it was only given to us since we were already on our way to Junkyard.

Plus, there is the out of setting explanation of the fact that the game is already extremely long, and at some point, a line has to be drawn.

The setting is excellent, but it's very siloed in terms of gameplay. Tchort Institute, Faceless, Deep Caverns ruins, Pirates, serpent-savages all are total black boxes to almost everyone in Underrail. With factions like West Underrail and Oculus, not to mention the "true nature" of the main plot and its antagonist/protagonist (not counting player char) mystery is a more thoroughly developed theme in the game than connection is, which is ironic given the connective nature of "rails" in "Underrail".

What do you expect my man? It is a post apocalyptic setting where most people are lucky to have food and a place to sleep where they don't have to worry about getting shanked. The game does a great job of making everything feel connected in a way that is logically consistent, and I really don't see what changes should even be made.

The peak of this problem is represented by the SGS leadership. Ezra is a solid figure in the leadership, but I don't quite grasp why he's silent in the debate on whether to establish an SGS foothold in Junkyard via the gang fight.

I get the impression he just doesn't give a fuck. He is using SGS for his own means.

You can find explanations for his pointed silence, which make sense for his individual character, but an "SGS agenda" would've been cool. Obviously, Tanner has a similar problem of not having an "SGS agenda". But it's not just those two but also Gorsky, the lead military figure in SGS, who just leaves to indulge in a gang war in the Drop Zone. You could almost make fun of bureaucrat Vera Hale and old man Jonas being the only ones with an active and thorough interest.

Tanner is the leader of SGS and in the end he decides on whether or not to help the Black Eels as well as in regards to making other decisions. SGS is an oligarchy, so you have multiple different agendas pullign it every which way. Just because Gorsky abandons SGS doesn't mean he doesn't initally have an active and thorough interest in running SGS properly before he leaves, and Ezra would likely get involved if he believed that it would harm his intentions with the station, which so far seem to require the station to be doing well, at least at the moment.

I still like how SGS is used in the game, as the starting-off point for the character and the storyline, but it's the best example of how the game world is frustratingly less interconnected than it could be. My favourite part of the game is when it is highly interconnected, like with the wacky secret routes opened up by Phreak, or the remarkably few screen transitions needed to walk from Core City to SGS via underpassages, or when you're exploring via jetski and find yourself on a map that is part of the land route from SGS to Mushroom Cove that you walked at level 4, and the secret entrances/exits into the Institute of Tchort.

Do you mean interconnected in a gameplay sense or interconnected in a lore sense? In my opinion, it is extremely well done in both and I will reiterate, I'm not sure what can be done to make it more interconnected short of just adding more minor quests. The game is already massive man.

 

[ghostlife]

Is there any use for Cornell's head? I killed him as part of the non-oligarch questline and that character had no interest in it

 

[ghostlife]

Also, is there any hidden reputation stat associated with giving inappropriate responses in the Institute, or just funny dialog?

 

[Trashos]

I agree with the weapons/grenades precision thoughts, I dislike the accuracy caps too. Then again, there are a lot of psi abilities with perfect accuracy for players who find this unbearable.

I do not agree with the lack of interconnections. On the contrary, there are amazing interconnections throughout the world. Almost everything is linked to some other thing someplace else. I consider Underrail to be amazing in this regard. If the complaint is that you wanted even more interconnections, I think it is strange to hear this complaint about the game with probably the most interconnections within its world ever. (Although note that a lot of the links require dot connecting from the player.)

Tanner, specifically, is a big mystery. You meet him as your boss, then

Spoiler

he is presented as a villain with his own shady agenda by Six, then you realize how connected Tanner is to the storyline, and then you think about it and decide that SGS has been flourishing under his wise command. POS or a great (god)man? You decide!