This hasn't been discussed a great deal, but Underrail's music is fucking great.
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Underrail: The Incline Awakens
- Thread starter Blaine
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,063
Which part is bugged?
The part where the quest giver hasn't ever appeared anywhere in the game world after many, many hours despite my having concluded the prerequisite quest in the appropriate way.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,063
I had a similar problem on my character, but in the end she appeared. I can't remember if it just took a long time or I wasn't looking in the right spot.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
Yeah, it's p. good. The sound effects not as much.
Since when is the inconvenience of having to walk (instead of running) back and forth the same dozen screens again and again something praiseworthy? It's not like only showing the player the interesting parts of town would diminish the sense of scope if you do it right (add flavor text during map transitions telling the player about the rest of the place, design the parts you show in a believable way, etc).
It gets especially aggravating during some quests in which those questgiver assholes are too stupid to send an ordinary messenger and abuse me instead. Fast travel like in Fallout would help a lot here. Maybe Styg cound use the road signs as triggers since there is no map.
Not that it bothers me much, I play this game for the char building and combat, nothing else. And in those areas it's the best game since ... forever. Can't remember a single game with such great CRPG systems, maybe RoA2 but that was unbalanced as hell (had better world building and dungeons though).
In direct comparison Fallout is a joke regarding CRPG mechanics, FO2 too. But they also have a more interesting gameworld. Did I mention that I don't like underground tunnels?
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"I wish I could sprint everywhere... I wish there were a map... I wish there were more fast travel options...."
Don't worry, you'll be able to get back to AAA action McRPGs soon enough and travel virtually anywhere at the click of a button, wondering why they don't make 'em like they used to as you follow GPS markers directly to quest objectives.
They don't make 'em like they used to because they've eliminated frustrations, inconveniences, and anything potentially confusing or too challenging in order to make RPGs "accessible" for the average person.
Don't worry, you'll be able to get back to AAA action McRPGs soon enough and travel virtually anywhere at the click of a button, wondering why they don't make 'em like they used to as you follow GPS markers directly to quest objectives.
They don't make 'em like they used to because they've eliminated frustrations, inconveniences, and anything potentially confusing or too challenging in order to make RPGs "accessible" for the average person.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
Top tier imbecility. I don't know how you can defend time wasting bullshit with a straight face. Do you cry when your pnp groups timeskip too?
Then again this is a game where you need to learn a special ability to sprint, that for reasons only works in combat.
Tigranes
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2009
- Messages
- 10,357
Blaine you made a nice post that made me all fuzzy inside, so when you go and start being a 0% Logic-Free arsehole about it again it sort of undermines your point.
Put it very simply: I'm usually a fan of the game putting in things that aren't very convenient or necessary but help produce the kind of playstyle that reinforces the themes of the game. The design dilemma is that you don't want such things to then get in the way of the player in an unintended or excessive way.
Should leaving Core City to explore lower Underrail be a big deal? Yeah. Should you have to leave some of your gear behind? Yeah. Should a quest send you to locate a research facility off in the wilderness with non-precise directions, making you get lost searching for it? Hell yeah. Should you be spending literally 50 transition screens walking back and forth and back and forth and back and forth for one quest? No.
Excidium II You are wrong, sprint works outside combat.
Put it very simply: I'm usually a fan of the game putting in things that aren't very convenient or necessary but help produce the kind of playstyle that reinforces the themes of the game. The design dilemma is that you don't want such things to then get in the way of the player in an unintended or excessive way.
Should leaving Core City to explore lower Underrail be a big deal? Yeah. Should you have to leave some of your gear behind? Yeah. Should a quest send you to locate a research facility off in the wilderness with non-precise directions, making you get lost searching for it? Hell yeah. Should you be spending literally 50 transition screens walking back and forth and back and forth and back and forth for one quest? No.
Excidium II You are wrong, sprint works outside combat.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
So why doesn't it say on the tooltip like with tabi boots?
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,063
Need to persuade them to leave/let them kill Buzzer, inform the ones in Foundry about the location of the cube and save the Faceless Tunneler operator. I think you also need to avoid killing them at the elevator in Tchort Institute.
Tigranes Which quest requires you to walk back and forth and back and forth and back and forth?
What, the investigation quests? FUCK. OFF. They're well done, actually require you to interview NPCs, find clues, use your brain a bit (frankly I think Styg drops one too many hints from time to time), and all you can do is squeal about legwork?
I'll stop being a 0% Logic-Free arsehole when you dipshits stop neglecting to mention any of the upsides and just constantly bitch because you had to walk someplace.
What, the investigation quests? FUCK. OFF. They're well done, actually require you to interview NPCs, find clues, use your brain a bit (frankly I think Styg drops one too many hints from time to time), and all you can do is squeal about legwork?
I'll stop being a 0% Logic-Free arsehole when you dipshits stop neglecting to mention any of the upsides and just constantly bitch because you had to walk someplace.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
Just stop being mean to underrail motherfuckers or else
Well, that's what you get for allying with fascists.
I've never done that quest (one of the very few I haven't outside of DC) and it does seem to be the one people bitch about when squealing about backtracking. It's one quest among many dozens of quests, though. The vast majority that send you on long trips involve you traveling to someplace remote, messing with a MacGuffin, and then returning when the objective is complete.
Zetor
Arcane
There's a known bug where if you persuade them to not kill Buzzer, it counts as if you killed them at his shop. Should be fixed fairly soon though.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 3,351
Cheatengine speed hack @2X is your friend. No word of a lie it improves enjoyability dramatically.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,063
Wow, Deep Caverns are so shitty that I'm considering changing my positive (Steam) review to negative. Many areas in UR were way worse than Arcanum mines but Deep Caverns brings it to another level. I can't believe that no beta testers have pointed out how crappy this area is (but then again it's no surprise when beta testers were such toadies like Blaine and the like). You need to scavenge every nook and cranny to advance and open almost every container.
Without reading any walkthroughs I went down to DC to finally finish this game. So I've reached the doors but it turned out that I didn't have the necessary parts. So I went to look for them and of course they were scattered all over the place. You couldn't just take apart other doors and take all the parts, no, you had to look EVERYWHERE for them. So I went back with everything but no, it turned out I didn't have the right shaft even though I've had 6 or more different ones.
It's even worse when you take into account that I've had a manual with me so why wasn't there a message which shaft I needed? WTF? What was the purpose of this manual then? But it gets worse. This shaft was of course in the most remote place in DC because Styg likes to make the game even more tedious than it is. I had to mow down through worthless worms (and since I'm at level 25 even if they would drop oddities it wouldn't make a difference) and waste more of my time. I wanted to skip worms tunnels and fungus forest but Styg wouldn't let me. Wow. Talk about utterly bad design.
The game is designed so you would have to go back and forth unless you read a walkthrough (which I've pointed out earlier). And there are many instances (not only in DC which has been pointed out in this thread recently). In DC I've had a small taste of it when in one of the buildings I've had to check every room for a keycard, then go up and open with that key some closed door where there is a body with another keycard and then you can go down again to open the only closed door (with that second keycard) there that you can't hack your way into. Up and down, back and forth... It's not even a matter of gathering everything you can first and going with that later because either Styg won't let you by scattering items or because you can't know about it. There is so much bloat in here like in Bethesda games and quests can be compared to receiving a present in dozens of boxes (as in box in a box) just for lols.
And of course it wasn't over, I needed to get rid of a biomass and could do it in only one way. I couldn't blow it up, kill it with fire or just utilize the power of engines that move the doors. And there is no hint of what to do (at this point I gave up and searched for a solution), you just have to blindly go to every location you can find and visit every tile there. That's not all. To create the grenade you need to inhale enough spores so that you would end up in a location you wouldn't be able to get otherwise. And you have no way of knowing that :D. If I'll ever replay the game (unlikely unless Styg will completely change things) I'll definitely skip the end because it's not worth it.
You also had to take at least two trips to power station because to get the keys you needed to power up some buildings. And of course there wasn't enough energy to power all of these buildings at the same time, you had to power up only some of these, go back to unlock the doors and only then you could go back and power up the rest. What's worse some of the options disappear if the power available exceeds its need for power instead of giving an error message as is the case for buildings that can't be powered up.
And all of this so I could one-shot Tchort and be done with this game. The game had its moments but in the end I'll remember it as a Bethesda wannabe that wastes your time on pointless walking, fetch quests, going back and forth and things like decorating your house.
All in all I would rate the game 7/10 and only because it had strong moments. But the end was so annoying that I almost forgot why I even reached that point. If you want to know its other shortcomings you can read my other posts on UR: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...e-game-of-the-year.106067/page-4#post-4311525
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BTW, I've managed to make quite a powerful character who could one-shot anyone (including Tchort and Carnifax) and even though I've messed up a bit and wasted some skill points on at least 1 feat.
Guns, Stealth, Dodge and Evasion maxed out (135), hacking at 100, lockpicking at 95, pickpocketing at 45, traps at 10, mechanics at 104, electronics 116, chemistry 20, biology 50. In hindsight I shouldn't have invested either in chemistry or biology, they were useless for my build (for the best part available - requiring 146 mechanics- my mechanic skills was too low by 11%). Pickpocket was useful, with as high dexterity as I had it was enough to pickpocket almost anyone (not from everything but I've had way more bullets, money and hypos than I needed and I could also pickpocket every unique oddity). With 337 health I could be easily one-shot myself (for a fight with Carnifax I just ate cave hopper steak) which wouldn't be such a problem if I had higher agility and instead of wasting my feat on snooping I could have used it on Sprint or hit and run.
WPISDAC at 3-7-7-5-8-5-5 (should have lowered intelligence by 3 points, increased agility by 1 and condition by 2 and later increase strength by 1 point, Agility by 1 point and perception by 4 points).
Edit:
With Faceless in DC I've had a different kind of bug but it's pointless to report it to Styg seeing how he does things.
Without reading any walkthroughs I went down to DC to finally finish this game. So I've reached the doors but it turned out that I didn't have the necessary parts. So I went to look for them and of course they were scattered all over the place. You couldn't just take apart other doors and take all the parts, no, you had to look EVERYWHERE for them. So I went back with everything but no, it turned out I didn't have the right shaft even though I've had 6 or more different ones.
It's even worse when you take into account that I've had a manual with me so why wasn't there a message which shaft I needed? WTF? What was the purpose of this manual then? But it gets worse. This shaft was of course in the most remote place in DC because Styg likes to make the game even more tedious than it is. I had to mow down through worthless worms (and since I'm at level 25 even if they would drop oddities it wouldn't make a difference) and waste more of my time. I wanted to skip worms tunnels and fungus forest but Styg wouldn't let me. Wow. Talk about utterly bad design.
The game is designed so you would have to go back and forth unless you read a walkthrough (which I've pointed out earlier). And there are many instances (not only in DC which has been pointed out in this thread recently). In DC I've had a small taste of it when in one of the buildings I've had to check every room for a keycard, then go up and open with that key some closed door where there is a body with another keycard and then you can go down again to open the only closed door (with that second keycard) there that you can't hack your way into. Up and down, back and forth... It's not even a matter of gathering everything you can first and going with that later because either Styg won't let you by scattering items or because you can't know about it. There is so much bloat in here like in Bethesda games and quests can be compared to receiving a present in dozens of boxes (as in box in a box) just for lols.
And of course it wasn't over, I needed to get rid of a biomass and could do it in only one way. I couldn't blow it up, kill it with fire or just utilize the power of engines that move the doors. And there is no hint of what to do (at this point I gave up and searched for a solution), you just have to blindly go to every location you can find and visit every tile there. That's not all. To create the grenade you need to inhale enough spores so that you would end up in a location you wouldn't be able to get otherwise. And you have no way of knowing that :D. If I'll ever replay the game (unlikely unless Styg will completely change things) I'll definitely skip the end because it's not worth it.
You also had to take at least two trips to power station because to get the keys you needed to power up some buildings. And of course there wasn't enough energy to power all of these buildings at the same time, you had to power up only some of these, go back to unlock the doors and only then you could go back and power up the rest. What's worse some of the options disappear if the power available exceeds its need for power instead of giving an error message as is the case for buildings that can't be powered up.
And all of this so I could one-shot Tchort and be done with this game. The game had its moments but in the end I'll remember it as a Bethesda wannabe that wastes your time on pointless walking, fetch quests, going back and forth and things like decorating your house.
All in all I would rate the game 7/10 and only because it had strong moments. But the end was so annoying that I almost forgot why I even reached that point. If you want to know its other shortcomings you can read my other posts on UR: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...e-game-of-the-year.106067/page-4#post-4311525
Thank you Styg for giving access to beta only to bootlickers like Blaine. The game is much better thanks to it
.BTW, I've managed to make quite a powerful character who could one-shot anyone (including Tchort and Carnifax) and even though I've messed up a bit and wasted some skill points on at least 1 feat.
Guns, Stealth, Dodge and Evasion maxed out (135), hacking at 100, lockpicking at 95, pickpocketing at 45, traps at 10, mechanics at 104, electronics 116, chemistry 20, biology 50. In hindsight I shouldn't have invested either in chemistry or biology, they were useless for my build (for the best part available - requiring 146 mechanics- my mechanic skills was too low by 11%). Pickpocket was useful, with as high dexterity as I had it was enough to pickpocket almost anyone (not from everything but I've had way more bullets, money and hypos than I needed and I could also pickpocket every unique oddity). With 337 health I could be easily one-shot myself (for a fight with Carnifax I just ate cave hopper steak) which wouldn't be such a problem if I had higher agility and instead of wasting my feat on snooping I could have used it on Sprint or hit and run.
WPISDAC at 3-7-7-5-8-5-5 (should have lowered intelligence by 3 points, increased agility by 1 and condition by 2 and later increase strength by 1 point, Agility by 1 point and perception by 4 points).
Edit:
With Faceless in DC I've had a different kind of bug but it's pointless to report it to Styg seeing how he does things.
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Yes, beta was available only to bootlickers like me, the leader of an elite group consisting exclusively of anyone with a spare $10. If you mean the DC testing, well, true bootlickers didn't actually play it, instead saving it to enjoy in our first 1.0 playthrough.
I've criticized many things about Underrail, but the walking speed, font, and stations that don't have quest-givers and merchants crowded into one small MMO hub aren't among them.
Actual criticisms include (but are not limited to):
Crafting is far too powerful, especially with the addition of Super Steel. All looted and shop-bought gear is shitty rags compared to what can ultimately be crafted. Crafted infused leather and Super Steel heavy armor are twice or thrice as good as what can be looted or purchased. Looted and shop-bought energy shields even late in the game seem to top out around 300 capacity with mediocre resistances, while with crafting you can create 1200 or 1600 capacity (depending on the Power Management feat) shields with fantastic resistances.
We're not talking 50% or better, or even 100% better: Crafted gear is several times better than anything else available. Styg knows this, and apparently it's what he wants. I strongly disagree with this design decision.
Perplexingly, Riot Gear is total crap. Even at very high quality, the shield doesn't block melee attacks nearly often enough (or prevent enough damage when it does) to justify the armor type being otherwise weaker than Tac Vests in every way.
Pistols were nerfed across the board because Styg thought energy weapons were too strong, and now they suck, as has been amply demonstrated in this thread (an SMG that deals more damage per bullet than a .44 pistol, for less AP, with a larger magazine, and both of the same quality and caliber, for example). Meanwhile, ARs and SMGs still shred the entire building and leave only wooden splinters and pulped organic material in the aftermath.
Crossbows didn't receive the promised "love" and are still wanting. Notably, an entire skill is dedicated only to crossbows, while with the Guns skill you can use all sorts of guns effectively even if you make very specialized feat choices.
The grammatical errors and typos range from slight to a complete mess, and this has barely changed since a year and a half ago. I plan to personally help Styg clean it up at some point when I settle on a viable method of efficiently parsing all the dialogue, descriptive text, etc.
There are many little things that need to be improved, especially things that have actually worsened since Early Access, such as Charons being prioritized when trading with SGS merchants, unreachable containers and switches, patrolling guards getting stuck on scenery, etc. Also, why the fuck can't I type in a quantity when dividing stacks?
I've criticized many things about Underrail, but the walking speed, font, and stations that don't have quest-givers and merchants crowded into one small MMO hub aren't among them.
Actual criticisms include (but are not limited to):
Crafting is far too powerful, especially with the addition of Super Steel. All looted and shop-bought gear is shitty rags compared to what can ultimately be crafted. Crafted infused leather and Super Steel heavy armor are twice or thrice as good as what can be looted or purchased. Looted and shop-bought energy shields even late in the game seem to top out around 300 capacity with mediocre resistances, while with crafting you can create 1200 or 1600 capacity (depending on the Power Management feat) shields with fantastic resistances.
We're not talking 50% or better, or even 100% better: Crafted gear is several times better than anything else available. Styg knows this, and apparently it's what he wants. I strongly disagree with this design decision.
Perplexingly, Riot Gear is total crap. Even at very high quality, the shield doesn't block melee attacks nearly often enough (or prevent enough damage when it does) to justify the armor type being otherwise weaker than Tac Vests in every way.
Pistols were nerfed across the board because Styg thought energy weapons were too strong, and now they suck, as has been amply demonstrated in this thread (an SMG that deals more damage per bullet than a .44 pistol, for less AP, with a larger magazine, and both of the same quality and caliber, for example). Meanwhile, ARs and SMGs still shred the entire building and leave only wooden splinters and pulped organic material in the aftermath.
Crossbows didn't receive the promised "love" and are still wanting. Notably, an entire skill is dedicated only to crossbows, while with the Guns skill you can use all sorts of guns effectively even if you make very specialized feat choices.
The grammatical errors and typos range from slight to a complete mess, and this has barely changed since a year and a half ago. I plan to personally help Styg clean it up at some point when I settle on a viable method of efficiently parsing all the dialogue, descriptive text, etc.
There are many little things that need to be improved, especially things that have actually worsened since Early Access, such as Charons being prioritized when trading with SGS merchants, unreachable containers and switches, patrolling guards getting stuck on scenery, etc. Also, why the fuck can't I type in a quantity when dividing stacks?
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hell bovine
Arcane
No, having a lot of pointless transition areas isn't good design. There is no excuse for it. People play games to have fun, and - even though this experience is very subjective - do you really think you can find someone who will say: hey, I enjoy watching my character walk and walk, and walk through Underrail's empty maps? This is the one feature that almost universally bores and annoy people, including yourself. So what if there is logic behind it? Exploration is the main theme of the game, and by designing your world in a way that makes exploring a chore you are literally shooting yourself in the foot as a designer.
I agree, that entire area is just badly designed. What annoys me is that it has a lot of potential in terms of ideas behind it, but is squandered by "gather this" missions and boring enemy encounters. There have been some discussions on the Underrail forums, so perhaps there is a chance it will get overhauled at some point. (I'd disagree about scavenging; it's very build-dependent. I'm playing a psi mage and short of looking for the mission items and batteries, I don't bother with looting.)
EDIT and I'm going to "cc" Styg too, because the more negative feedback on this issue, the better. Underrail has a combat system that could be used to design really good encounters, but deep caverns make absolutely no use of it. You should be fighting dangerous enemy groups at this point, made up from psi users, gunslingers and melee guys, all working together, and not rats and beetles.
or even worse, mushrooms. A mushroom is not something you want as your "this is the end" type of enemy. It really isn't.
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MasterSmithFandango
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 7,269
I'm finishing up here in a few - getting ready to do the final fight.
Will post detailed "review" of my 150 hours of post release play in the next few days... I think I can be fairly even-handed, even though I am also one of the aforementioned bootlickers.
Sykar
Arcane
That is because that is true for all incapacitating effects. Same reason why it is mentioned nowhere that stuns and fear effects do not break from damage.
hell bovine I concede the point. I should only have to walk through a room once, twice at most, and it should be a small room so that it doesn't take too long. Also, I should be sprinting, not walking.
Perhaps a series of small linear corridors with treasure nooks and only one path through the game would have been more appropriate. Styg could really take a page from JRPGs here. After all, we play games for fun and we just want to kick back and relax after work.
Perhaps a series of small linear corridors with treasure nooks and only one path through the game would have been more appropriate. Styg could really take a page from JRPGs here. After all, we play games for fun and we just want to kick back and relax after work.
circ
Arcane
Hellfire! The crowd is chanting Hellfire!
Well atleast it's better than Lead Fury.
edit: also, Blaine, master of the worst strawmen I've ever seen.
Well atleast it's better than Lead Fury.
edit: also, Blaine, master of the worst strawmen I've ever seen.
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