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Vapourware Unforetold: Witchstone (formerly Project Witchstone) - "living world" sandbox RPG with turn-based combat - CANCELLED

Harthwain

Magister
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Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,810
- the rng generator is broken atm therefore dices greater than 5 are rare (wtf!?)
Is this confirmed? I watched SplatterCat and his rolls were higher than 5.

Edit:

The game looks promising. It feels a lot like a mix of Neverwinter Nights and Solasta: Crown of the Magister to me. I like that you can influence the rolls and how free-form the game appears to be (apparently the events in the game can resolve on their own, which sounds good). The only downside is that the setting is a little bland and everything looks too much like World of Warcraft (and bugs). I am keeping my fingers crossed for this "living world" sandbox RPG.
 
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Habichtswalder

Literate
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Aug 30, 2023
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25
The price tag for this surprises me. I'm not saying it's not justified because I don't know the game. Just that the devs seem to be very optimistic. It's an indie (?) early-access title without much hype behind it. The studio's previous games weren't such big hits that there's a fanbase blindly buying it either. Pretty brave then to price it so much above the average for similar early-access games.
 

toro

Arcane
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Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,106
- the rng generator is broken atm therefore dices greater than 5 are rare (wtf!?)
Is this confirmed? I watched SplatterCat and his rolls were higher than 5.

Edit:

The game looks promising. It feels a lot like a mix of Neverwinter Nights and Solasta: Crown of the Magister to me. I like that you can influence the rolls and how free-form the game appears to be (apparently the events in the game can resolve on their own, which sounds good). The only downside is that the setting is a little bland and everything looks too much like World of Warcraft (and bugs). I am keeping my fingers crossed for this "living world" sandbox RPG.
dev response from the link i've posted
hello, this is an issue we are going to look into. This is clearly not how we intend the dice roll to be :)
I think you got your confirmation.

I think one of the last things they've implemented was the dice rolling like in BG3. Probably dice rolling was working before but they messed it up while doing the BG3 thing and they did not have time to test it properly. Just an idea.

Just wait for the next patch.
 

toro

Arcane
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Messages
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I am keeping my fingers crossed for this "living world" sandbox RPG.

Yeah. I wanted to post about this. The thread title is wrong cause the "living world" sandbox part is simply bullshit.

from their steam store page:
Experience the living, reactive lands of Kalsundia through unprecedented options to roleplay your character, influence others and set your own goals.

Each choice along your journey feeds into a non-linear narrative system that changes relationships and outcomes dynamically. Gone are the days of laborious quest chains as you enter into a freer world of milestones and opportunities where you choose who to help, what to do, and what you aim to achieve.

Backed by classic turn-based combat and stealth systems, and steeped in a universe from the mind of Ed Greenwood, creator of the Forgotten Realms – you are invited to shape the fate of the world.

There is no simulation as in a "living" world. This is not Kenshi. The NPCs have some patrolling routes but no scheduled activities. The NPCs cannot act based on their own volition. They are just instruments for the`influence` mechanics.

They meant to say that the world will react to your choices. Basically regional C&C. I assume that each region has a defined number of end states and you will be able to influence those end states. There are like 5 factions in the game and you will decide which one of them will rule each region.

To be honest, it doesn't sound bad but don't expect a "living" world.
 

toro

Arcane
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Messages
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The reason why I sperg about this game despite the underwhelming EA release is that they are trying to do something new in the genre. Not really new but at a different scale.

They are trying to implement a social/relationship system in which all entities in the gameworld have an appreciation relationship with each other. Basically a mesh topology network for relations.

Based on that appreciation relationship the NPCs will be favourable to you or they will be enemies. And you can influence the weight of those relationships by doing things for those NPCs.

This kind of system is as old as the Gothic games but in most cases it was scripted for each specific NPC character. The novelty is that they are trying to do this for all NPCs and eventually get some emergent gameplay.

That's why this game has potential. Everything else about it is simply derivative (including the combat, WoW visuals and the awful UI).
 
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Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://pcgamer.com/unforetold-witc...orld-has-a-lot-of-promise-and-even-more-jank/

Unforetold: Witchstone's ambitious living world has a lot of promise and even more jank​

When it's not falling over itself it's brilliant, but this RPG is rough even by early access standards.

I've been writing about games for too long to keep track of the number of times I've been promised a "living world", but the prospect continues to hold so much appeal that I've yet to become jaded—uncharacteristically—despite the payoffs being few and far between. Unforetold: Witchstone is another RPG with these lofty ambitions, driven by a web of interconnected relationships and faction rivalries. When it works, it's damn impressive, but at this early access stage, unfortunately, so much of that reactivity is undone by bugs and wonky systems.

The many false starts during my attempt to help a bandit faction take over the town of Howling Valley really encapsulates both how ambitious Unforetold: Witchstone is, and how messy it can become when nothing works as it should.

My life of crime started before I arrived at said town. Really, it started straight away, as I used subterfuge, intimidation and my criminally charming smile to escape a dingy port and steal away on a train. It was during this train journey where I really embraced my penchant for bad behaviour, though. See, we were held up by a pack of bandits, eager to rob the rich passengers and murder the troops onboard—who belonged to the Commonwealth faction. I still don't know much about the Commonwealth, but their bossy vibe rubbed me the wrong way. My rebellious streak meant I was seduced by the Dark Side, agreeing to assist the bandits.

Before the fight kicked off, a real-time chat between both leaders afforded me some time to come up with a plan. The influence system allows you to manipulate any character into doing all sorts of things, like giving up an item, attacking a specific individual or leaving a location. I thought I might be able to avoid bloodshed by talking the Commonwealth troops into leaving, and thanks to some good rolls I actually managed to convince them to run away. Except they stayed exactly where they were and the fight started anyway.

Up until that point, the system had worked brilliantly. I managed to trick a guard into letting me into port without paying a toll, avoided having to bribe another guard to get into the sewers, and recruited a train conductor instead of purchasing a train ticket. I suspect the failure of the system during the train heist was due to the Commonwealth troops being locked into a scripted sequence, but it was still disappointing to see my plan breaking down due to things outside of my control.

Anyway! My bandit pals and I won the fight, and after some looting I got back on the train. This bout of criminal activity had a significant knock-on effect, too, transforming my destination. When I arrived, I found Howling Valley embroiled in an all-out war between the bandits and the Commonwealth, all thanks to my earlier assistance. There was literal blood on the streets, and as I explored the new location I kept being informed about the tug of war between the two factions as they conducted raids and murdered each other.

The dynamic nature of the world doesn't always need your input: factions will fight and compete with each other even if you decide to stay out of it. But if you choose to act, the impact can be properly transformative, letting you reshape the world for good or ill. In my case, mostly ill.

Predictably, I decided to stick with the bandits and help them take over the town. This immediately fell apart right after chatting to the bandit lieutenant who was doling out jobs. He was a couple of steps too far into the bandit compound, so his pals decided that I was trespassing and, instead of telling me to leave, just started stabbing. Upon reloading my last save, the game then crashed. I was having a bad day.

After firing the game up again, things went a bit better. Well, at least they didn't try to kill me. It turned out that the faction was just about to raid the town's stables, hoping to 'acquire' the business, and I agreed to help them with their hostile takeover. I had no idea it would become such an infuriating saga.

Hostile takeover: First attempt​

I caught up to the bandits and the fight was already in medias res. I dove in with my pistol and blade, making quick work of the Commonwealth guards. Weirdly, the game decided the fight was over before all the guards were actually defeated, freezing the combatants in place. Maybe they were all just out of breath. Murder is exhausting work! Attacking again seemed to solve this, and after a couple of rounds there were no guards left.

Instead of celebrating this bloody victory, all of the bandits charged off towards the Commonwealth base. By the time I caught up to them, they'd been slaughtered. It was a bad plan. Broad daylight, completely outnumbered and injured from the previous battle—they didn't stand a chance. The stable was also still under Commonwealth control, despite nobody being left alive. The bandit lieutenant was no help and offered no more jobs. Not sure how to proceed, I decided to reload an old save. The game crashed.

Hostile takeover: Second attempt​

I arrived at the stables right after the bandits, but this time there was no fight. They just stood there, weapons at the ready, posturing. The Commonwealth guards were similarly hesitant to do anything other than spit insults at the bandits. "Screw it," I thought, as I initiated the battle myself. The bandits refused to help. Then I died.

Hostile takeover: Third and fourth attempt​

See above.

Hostile takeover: Fifth attempt​

The bandit lieutenant offered me a different job, but by this point I was too invested in the plight of the stables to accept. Hoping to avoid crashes and lazy NPCs, I reloaded a slightly older save this time. It worked. I high-fived my disinterested dog to celebrate.

Hostile takeover: Sixth and final attempt​

OK. Here we go. I got the stables job, and when I arrived the fight actually kicked off. I did have to reinitiate it at one point, but otherwise everything went as planned. We killed the guards, the Commonwealth banners disappeared, the bandit banners were raised and I felt a deep feeling of satisfaction after a job well done. Finally.

The lieutenant had no more jobs for me, instead suggesting that I speak to another lieutenant, who it turned out was not at his post. That was because he was in the middle of a massive brawl right next to the stables. Basically, my bandit pals had taken two steps, and then started a fight with the cops, who presumably weren't too happy about all the murders. Killjoys. Naturally, I jumped into the fray.

Our numbers were greater, so the fight was over swiftly. Kinda. I'm still not really sure how it happened, but after the last cop went down, the bandits just started kicking the shit out of each other, until only three of them were left. Thankfully, one of the survivors was the fella I needed to talk to if I wanted more work.

The saga, however, was not over. As soon as I'd received my new job, I got a notification that the Commonwealth was attempting to take back the stables. Was I not allowed to enjoy my victory for just a wee while? Had I not earned some respite? Would someone please cut me some slack? The answer to all these questions was a resounding "no". And because of all the bandit-on-bandit murder, there was only one puny wee dude protecting their latest acquisition.

On the plus side, only a few Commonwealth soldiers had shown up, so with my party in tow we actually outnumbered them and managed to take them all out. Hurray! But not before the sole bandit guard had been knocked out. Boo! When the dust settled, the stables were flipped again, going back to the Commonwealth, regardless of the fact that there were no Commonwealth survivors.

Seconds later, a veritable army of Commonwealth goons appeared next to the train. I took the hint and gave up.

This should have been a bad time, but honestly? I actually managed to enjoy myself quite a bit. All of these factions and characters with pre-existing relationships and rivalries do make Unforetold: Witchstone feel incredibly lively, and it makes every NPC feel like a piece of an elaborate puzzle, just waiting to be manipulated. There are no truly random NPCs—they all have friends or family, grudges and motivations.

For instance, you might need to get rid of an NPC, so you do a bit of digging, maybe indulge in some pickpocketing, and discover they're an elven supremacist, a fact which can be used to your advantage. If you want to be both sneaky and ruthless, you can—if you're creative and the rolls go your way—turn everyone against each other and potentially wipe out whole settlements without getting into a single brawl. There's a hell of a lot of potential for some properly dastardly antics.

Judging by some of the Steam reviews, other players have encountered fewer game-breaking issues, too. Though there are also quite a few who have just as little luck as me. Regardless, there's clearly still a lot of work to be done. Unforetold: Witchstone is expected to be in early access for a year, so there's time to polish all of these systems up, and I really hope Spearhead Games manages it. What the team is trying to do is genuinely cool, but at the moment the jankiness is just too frustrating.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Love to see this. It's kinky and janky in a new and interesting way. If they are able to get it actually up and running I have little doubt it will be at least worth seeing.
 

cyborgboy95

News Cyborg
Joined
Aug 24, 2019
Messages
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Community Update #2 - Hotfix details, VOD and more!


Hello Adventurers!

It’s still hard to believe that after working so many years on Unforetold: Witchstone, the game is finally out on Early Access. It’s been a crazy and difficult but fulfilling journey building this sandbox version of a cRPG from scratch. But our work isn’t done yet and we’ve barely scratched the surface of this playground called Kalsundia. As one of the ways to show our gratitude to all the players supporting Unforetold: Witchstone at the very beginning of its Early Access, we’ve been tirelessly working on hotfix updates for the past few weeks.

We’d like to use this opportunity to once again thank everyone who has either bought the game, sent us feedback, reported a bug, talked to us about their experience, made content about the game, wishlisted it, or simply sent words of encouragement. This support means the world to us and helps us get through the more difficult times.

The Big Update

Since the launch of the Unforetold: Witchstone, our team has been scanning our Discord server, the Steam forums, live streams, YouTube videos, and reviews looking for critical areas of improvement. Your comments help us prioritize what features and bug fixes need to be tackled next. As such, we’re very happy to release the fifth and biggest update to date for Unforetold: Witchstone, which Malik and Phil previewed on a Twitch live stream last Friday.

ravel Events
The untamed frontier world of Kalsundia is dangerous. Now you’ll encounter people, friendly or hostile, or beasts on your travels between townships and dungeons. These encounters are sometimes the consequence of actions you committed earlier and progress your story forward.

Inventory Sorting Options
Hoarders and non-hoarders, rejoice! Players can now sort their inventories in 3 ways:
  • By sund: from highest value to lowest
  • By weight: from heaviest to lightest
  • By type: in alphabetical order, in the following categories
- Weapons
- Helmets
- Chest pieces
- Gloves
- Boots
- Capes
- Accessories
- Consumables
- All other items

Companion Orders Presentation
We noticed on streams and were told by players that they would be ordering a companion without noticing. To address this, we gave ordering a companion a similar presentation outside of combat to when ordering companions in combat. So when clicking on a companion portrait, you’ll notice:
  • The player hotbar cannot be interacted with
  • Slow-motion starts
  • The order range circle is now more noticeable

Appreciation from Fulfilling Wants, Not Completing OpportunitiesTo reinforce the sandbox experience of the game, appreciation gains of an NPC now trigger from fulfilling their wants. This means that a player is no longer obligated to learn about opportunities and complete them in order for someone to become friendly or allied to them. For example, if someone wanted monsters eliminated from a place and a player did the deed without speaking to them first, the player will still be better appreciated and even rewarded for their actions.

Optimized Save Files
We’re very happy to say that the time it takes to save a game has been greatly reduced (down to 1 second or less in most setups). The file size of each saved game is also no longer 400 mb, but a way more reasonable less than 50mb.

And More!
To learn more about everything in this update, including bug fixes, please check out the patch notes # 5.


Previous Updates

As was mentioned earlier, this is the fifth update since January 25th. In previous updates, we’ve addressed many very good points brought up by the community, including:

  • Adding Armor and stat bonuses to certain odd wearable items
  • Adding subtitles to the opening video
  • Making item rarity easier to tell by adjusting the vibrancy of the colored icon outlines
  • Adding area names to opportunities dialogues and descriptions to make finding characters and items easier
  • Providing extra dialogue options during the event on the way to Howling Valley so players are not forced to make a decision this early on what they intend to do with Kalsundia

Also, we quickly jumped on issues reported on launch day:

  • Fixed key binding changes not saving after pressing Apply
  • Fixed the Goals page in the Journal displaying overlapping text when opened from notifications and dialogue
  • Moving a guard position at Howling Valley Warehouse so the player doesn’t need to trespass to talk to them

In case you missed it, here are the links to the patch notes of the previous hotfix.

Hotfix 1 2 3 4


More To Come

In the upcoming weeks, we will continue to listen to your feedback and periodically release updates for Unforetold: Witchstone. We’ve got some really cool stuff in the works!


Thank you once again for your unwavering support and patience. Stay tuned for more patches, keep sending us your feedback, and let’s make this a great game together!
 

Konjad

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The reason why I sperg about this game despite the underwhelming EA release is that they are trying to do something new in the genre. Not really new but at a different scale.

They are trying to implement a social/relationship system in which all entities in the gameworld have an appreciation relationship with each other. Basically a mesh topology network for relations.

Based on that appreciation relationship the NPCs will be favourable to you or they will be enemies. And you can influence the weight of those relationships by doing things for those NPCs.

This kind of system is as old as the Gothic games but in most cases it was scripted for each specific NPC character. The novelty is that they are trying to do this for all NPCs and eventually get some emergent gameplay.

That's why this game has potential. Everything else about it is simply derivative (including the combat, WoW visuals and the awful UI).

If it's developed enough then perhaps, but I'm rather pessimistic. I had got it but refunded quickly. The gameplay is so barebones and mediocre I got bored in the third town which took less than two hours to arrive to. There is not much exploration, the world is made of small hubs (and you cannot travel freely, just unlock them), and quest plots are miniscule, essentialy without backgrounds. Quests are extremely boring, NPCs usually tell you in 1-3 sentences "get NPC [name] here" or "get rid of NPC [name]", to which you go, select option 'follow' or something similar and you're done. Combat is a bit of a mess, but I guess it might get alright once it's fleshed out (but if not then... it will be bad), however, it alone won't carry the game.

Maybe the game will improve with time, but the current version doesn't spark hope.

Also, in regards to "social/relationship system" - it seems mostly to be simply related to 'faction x likes you, y dislikes you and might become hostile', on a more grand scheme than usually, i.e. I guess an entire town might become hostile, but it doesn't seem to be that much gameplay changing except you'll have to fight your way through here or there. Maybe I'm wrong, I didn't play enough.

Overall, I'm not waiting for final version with excitement or even at all. When it comes out I might read this thread if it got significantly improved and then I'll see if it's worth giving it another try, until that time I guess I'll just forget about it.
 

Abu Antar

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Game is dead. Let me find the statement.
https://twitter.com/SpearheadMtl/status/1765092027702624662
GH7diF6XQAAT259
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
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Not surprising, I've been keeping tabs on this one 'cause it's interesting but the player counts don't lie.

Unfortunate and I hope the devs bounce back.

However, I do have to say it's fucking unacceptable to sell an Early Access game for 34 bucks, basically full price, on the promise of continued development and then fucking drop it like a month later.

This makes it harder for me as a dev to earn my livelihood and I wish people would stop doing this scammy shit. They need to remove this from Steam pronto.

:argh::argh::argh:
 

Roguey

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I'm going to put the blame on this failing entirely on the incredibly off-putting art style.
 

HoboForEternity

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Oh boy only 68 paid reviews a month after release i am not surprised. It does look interesting but everything from this game look "wait and see" so a lot of people are skeptical and wont support this early. They were betting on early access to fund the development, and these usually fail with few exceptions.
 

Konjad

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lmao they expected thousands of players to buy a mediocre tech demo once they did EA with no marketing and made their game dependant on it? Are they morons? If anything now is the time to just start building on their market.
 

scytheavatar

Scholar
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Sep 22, 2016
Messages
438
lmao they expected thousands of players to buy a mediocre tech demo once they did EA with no marketing and made their game dependant on it? Are they morons? If anything now is the time to just start building on their market.

The worst, most ironic thing is that the EA killed most of the hype of this game. People nope'd out after seeing how broken the influence system is despite it supposedly being the linchpin of the entire game. The unfortunate reality is that the devs were too ambitious for their own good and perhaps they should have taken baby steps of a conventional CRPG with strong sandbox elements rather than trying to go full sandbox. For a studio with no experience in anything but 10 hour long adventure games.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1064120/view/4150701564157950680

Follow-up related to our recent statement

In light of our recent announcement, we've noted significant concerns regarding the Steam price tag, refunds, etc., and we want to acknowledge that our initial communication could have been more transparent. This oversight is something we fully take responsibility for.

To address the concerns raised, our team is actively in communication with Steam to gather all necessary information regarding pricing and refund policies. We are still awaiting some details, but rest assured, as soon as we have comprehensive information and receive approval to communicate it, we will promptly share everything with all of you.

Thank you for your understanding as we work through these challenges together.
 

Axioms

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Messages
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There was no way this game was gonna do what they said. Even major studios can't do that stuff with an RPG where you walk around a 3D world with character models. Even Kenshi doesn't really do those things, or Dwarf Fortress/Rimworld. But at least they can fake it.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
There was no way this game was gonna do what they said. Even major studios can't do that stuff with an RPG where you walk around a 3D world with character models. Even Kenshi doesn't really do those things, or Dwarf Fortress/Rimworld. But at least they can fake it.
Maybe not this time, but I'm glad that studios are at least trying to push forward on some important ambitions for the genre. Hopefully there are lessons to be learned here that might make the vision of a socially systemic RPG more viable a few years down the road.
 

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