Unity reveals plans to charge developers per game install - plans revoked and CEO fired, lol

[markec]

 

[thesecret1]

Laff, so the Rust developer stating that 'they probably forgot about non-mobile games being a thing' was probably dead-on. Jesus christ.

Option 1) They forgot that non-mobile games exist.
Option 2) They assumed that non-mobile game developers would do the math, determine that this doesn't affect them, and then shrug and go along with it instead of collectively saying "excuse me what the fuck?", because they assumed that all companies work on the same investor-brained logic as them.

I think it's Option 2 myself. It explains how a lot of their damage control is "We're trying to clear up confusion about this" and the tweet that said "This only affects like 10% of our customers, wtf why are you mad?"

They might have also thought "PC games go like $60 per copy, right? They won't even notice the 20 cents."

It's still gonna get struck down in court. 20 cents per install? That's more than most f2p mobile games get per user. Might have as well made it a million dollars per install, just to drive the point home that it's an ultimatum to use their ad provider.

 

[Caim]

Worth to remind this too!

Niantic claims that Pokemon Go has been downloaded over 1 billion times.

This would mean that Unity is trying to claim well over $200m.

From Nintendo.

There's uphill battles and then there's trying to walk straight up mid-air.

 

[thesecret1]

Niantic claims that Pokemon Go has been downloaded over 1 billion times.

This would mean that Unity is trying to claim well over $200m.

It only applies to installs after 1st January 2024

 

[Ravielsk]

Probably went to the same schools as the guys in the music publishing industry who wanted to get licence fees if someone heard a ringtone in public, or those DVD's I think Disney patented that oxidise and become unuseable in a week.

Its called the faculty of management and almost every university has one. I already wrote this multiple times but everyone needs to understand that this is not some unique phenomena almost all managers under 50 have been taught to think in this retarded way during their studies(or training depending on the position). The modern managerial philosophy teaches that workers of any kind are essentially parasites leaching off of the company while the managers and investors form the actual backbone of the company.

So when some *spits* worker comes in and tells their vastly superior boss that some of their ideas will not fly the boss automatically rejects it because he will not be bullied by a literal "parasite". Its ingrained into them to basically ignore everyone who is not above them because that would be a sign of weakness and not good for business. Its an extremely effective way of squeezing a lot of money out of any company in the short term but in the long term it guarantees its failure and unity is currently getting a taste of that long term effect.

 

[Ravielsk]

Niantic claims that Pokemon Go has been downloaded over 1 billion times.

This would mean that Unity is trying to claim well over $200m.

It only applies to installs after 1st January 2024

And I am pretty sure that everything made before that is grandfather into the old EULA anyway but that is really besides the point. The main point here is that this is a fee for essentially nothing(since the distribution is mostly done by everyone but Unity themselves) and does not seem to have any limit for how long it will be charged. So you can easily make a game in 2024 and then in 2034 Unity will still be charging 20 cents per each download which at that point may very well be coming from just people who bought the game between 2024 and 2033 redownloading it for their new device.

In other words its Unity taking a cut of profits that exist only theoretically. For any studio that intends to sell its product for more than a year or two that is financially suicidal. Just try to imagine if Ubisoft or Nintendo were paying 20 cents per each install of one their, at this point, hundreds of games. Hundreds of millions effectively paid out for less than nothing.

 

[Mise]

Worth to remind this too!

Niantic claims that Pokemon Go has been downloaded over 1 billion times.

This would mean that Unity is trying to claim well over $200m.

From Nintendo.

There's uphill battles and then there's trying to walk straight up mid-air.

Not at all. The figure is around 15$ million.(After the first 2 million downloads the figure falls to $0.01) I mean their thinking is logical, Pokemon GO made a billion dollars probably, Genshin made a couple of billions too, so why not take a part of those money. The problem is, these are the type of companies that won't like paying even a million more, let alone $10-15 millions.

I'm talking of course about the financials here, as in the only thing that makes sense. Everything else is a complete shitshow though.

 

[Hellion]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/16j6cip/ironsource_is_the_reason/

Haven't really seen this mentioned here yet.

I work for a studio in the hyper casual mobile games market.

We were obviously quite concerned about the pricing announcement as it appears to specifically kill our business model.

Our unity rep is telling us "no, don't worry. you will receive credits to cover 100% of installs because you use IronSource as AD provider".

With that revelation, suddenly this all seems to make more sense. I don't think its about generating revenue through the fees. Its about forcing all mobile studios that use unity (so >99%) to use IronSource if they want to continue business.

Oh look, there it is. Pretty much as expected.

That's why they're so focused on "revenue" as the threshold, because they want a cut of those IAPs.

As you said, there it is.

This decision only made sense in the context of Unity believing it could throw its weight around and force its customers to nickle and dime their own customers to compensate for the loss.

Oh and, for funsies:

ironSource Ltd. is an Israeli software company

Oy vey goyim, don't you know that you exist solely to fund G-d's chosen people?

 

[Azdul]

With Unity you were basically at the mercy of the EULA, the change the EULA like they just did and good bye years of hard work. That's playing out right now. Unity's licensing was archaic as fuck and represented attitudes in the industry that were 20 years old. They got away with it for so long because their bread and butter was mobile where no one gave a shit.

Okay, I just read this... So they were really doing it. You had Unity-based developers running their commercial outfits off the back of an EULA...

That's nuts. They're nuts. Everyone. Crazy, bananas, cuckoo. We're living in the fucking Looney Tunes, you can't run a business this way. You can't run any sort of commercial agreement this way, you don't have a fucking contract when the terms are "I can change the terms whenever my bollocks are ticklish!"

Jesus Christ, imagine if landlords replaced letting agreements with End-User License Agreements.

Oh, my God, that's next, isn't it?!


P.S. But hey, if someone does take this shit to court, maybe we'll finally see the back of this ridiculous "whatever I want" non-contract EULA bullshit for individual consumers too. It's made it this long 'cause no one was gonna sue over changing the terms of a €60 videogame, but if there's big bucks involved... Oh, who am I kidding.

Doing a business in software space in such way is not that uncommon. Sometimes millions of $$$ being paid without any lawyers involvement.

However - serious guys refuse to get locked in. Ironclad commercial agreement may protect them from sudden price hike - but won't protect them from software provider going bankrupt - and they don't want their business to go down with software provider.

When there is no OpenUnity to migrate to - using Unity was always a huge risk. I'm sure many companies will now wake up to the possibility of Epic Games / Tencent going insane - and them having no exit strategy.

 

[RobotSquirrel]

I'm sure many companies will now wake up to the possibility of Epic Games / Tencent going insane - and them having no exit strategy.

Exactly. What is to stop Tencent/Epic now going on a rampage. Unity was the only competition they had and now that's gone, so Epic can charge what they want and do business how they want. That's really scary.
What we see with Unreal Engine will be a glimpse at what they'd do with EGS if Steam were to suddenly lose market share. I'm concerned. Do Not Trust Epic.

 

[deuxhero]

 

[MalcolmR]

I'm a solo full-time Unity game developer. I've been following this situation closely since the original announcement and I've read every reply in the massive official announcement thread and seen almost every video discussing the topic. I think I have some insights into this situation that I haven't seen discussed so far, so I want to share them here.

1. Timing: "Dev Days of Summer" Sale

The Unity Asset Store regularly has massive sales that last for weeks. The most recent one was called Dev Days of Summer, and it involved sponsoring a large number of Unity YouTubers of various sizes to each make a simple game in a week using assets from the Asset Store. They then posted a video about how they made the game and all the assets they used were 50% off during the sale. The YouTubers were paid for this and their channels were promoted by Unity.

I now believe the purpose of this promotion was to build a business relationship with YouTubers to make them more reluctant to speak out against the new fee system. While their plan worked to some degree (more on that below), it wasn't enough because the story got more than enough negative coverage from general game dev channels like GameFromScratch, who covered it properly, and then other developers and eventually big YouTubers and streamers.

2. Damage Control

Unity has a business relationship with the two biggest Unity YouTubers: CodeMonkey and Jason Weimann. I'm subscribed to them and I like them and their content. CodeMonkey is a competent indie developer (though I'm personally not interested in the type of game he makes) with great tutorials and devlogs. Jason Weimann is an older developer with a AAA development background. He's basically retired now, but he makes good tutorials and he hosts a podcast called the GameDevShow which is actually quite good.

I'm disappointed with them because they instantly came out with damage control videos making it sound like it's not a big deal. For the record, CodeMonkey's video was much worse than Jason's. He intentionally ignored the main issues (retroactive ToS changes with no guarantee that they'll stay the same, double dipping without adding any new value, legality and accuracy of data collection for installs, increasing the price of removing the splash screen by 500%) and just did a calculation and said it seems fine. He also claimed in the comments that it was an honest opinion because that specific video wasn't sponsored by Unity, as if the income from regular Unity sponsorships has no effect on his opinion. While I can't know exactly what's going on in his mind, I imagine he knows this is terrible but can't face it because all his paid courses, YouTube content and games are based on Unity.

Jason did a better job. He can't say anything negative about Unity, so he's basically just asking people what they think and whether it will affect them without actually saying his opinion about it. It still looks like a damage control video though.

I'm saying this not to call out these YouTubers, but to show that there are some relatively high-profile people expressing (or not expressing) opinions without disclosing that they have a business relationship with Unity.

3. Denial/Coping and the Vicious Circle

I've seen a handful of developers say that they'll stick with Unity because the changes won't affect them. What they fail to realize is that if enough developers leave, and if no new developers start using the engine, Unity will need to find another way to fund its bloated company, so they'll end up increasing their fees or lowering their thresholds until everyone has to pay. The end result would be an engine that's not used anymore for current development and a company that extorts fees out of all games that have been released on its engine over the years. I don't think it will get to that point, but that's what would happen without a course correction or intervention.

On the other hand, there are developers who will keep their current project in Unity and start future projects in other engines. I think this is the wisest approach, especially if the project is near completion. I've halted development of my game and I'm putting my time into researching other engines and seeing if it's viable to port my game. I really hope this gets resolved in a way that allows me to at least release my current game in Unity safely.

 

[RobotSquirrel]

I'm saying this not to call out these YouTubers, but to show that there are some relatively high-profile people expressing (or not expressing) opinions without disclosing that they have a business relationship with Unity.

Add Gamedev.tv to the list as well. His comments were frankly disgusting "Unity needs money, its a business, it has to make money somehow" they're defending Unity because its their bread and butter. It has nothing to do with you and what is best for you, it has everything to do with them defending their income stream and nothing else.

 

[Tyranicon]

I'm sure many companies will now wake up to the possibility of Epic Games / Tencent going insane - and them having no exit strategy.

Exactly. What is to stop Tencent/Epic now going on a rampage. Unity was the only competition they had and now that's gone, so Epic can charge what they want and do business how they want. That's really scary.
What we see with Unreal Engine will be a glimpse at what they'd do with EGS if Steam were to suddenly lose market share. I'm concerned. Do Not Trust Epic.

Never ever trust a corporation.

 

[HumanTotemPole]

I strongly suspect that is some sort of insider trading. The level of retardation behind the install fee is so profound that it has to be. On top of being utterly illegal its also financially suicidal even for bigger studios. Paying what amounts to millions because people reinstalled a executable(through a service that Unity itself has nothing to do with no less) is a complete ripoff even if the fee was a singular cent. On top of that to even make it possible unity has to have a phone home function forced into the engine which in essence means that every Unity game automatically becomes a security hazard. Because how can unity guarantee that 5 years from the release of the game some hacker will not use it as a gateway into your PC, phone or console?

The answer is they cannot and if such a thing were to happen Unity would get sued into the ground for knowingly introducing a security loophole onto the device. That said even if this is some insider trading scam I do not think it going to work. The backlash is not some kneejerk reaction to something that ultimately barely matters but a serious breach of trust on all levels. Sure maybe you can buy the shares for literal pennies right now but who is going to buy them from you? People are already jumping ship and will not return even if Unity got on its knees and started begging for forgiveness. Nobody is going to invest into a company whose product nobody wants even for free.

Agreed. "Plaftorm" companies like Unity can't really start to fuck over clients and users until they have near total to total market dominance like a railway operator. They have a viable competitor in Unreal Engine.

Has to be Johnny R and the gang do a stock selfsuck with market manipulation. Too public and sudden a way to announce a change like this that the execs know is going to cause a shitstorm.

The indie devs rending their garments and posting technicolor public annoucements don't matter but there are some very big fish in the water here. No one likes exposure to unnecessary finanicial risk.

Edit: A quick skim of their 2023 Gaming Report suggests that they might have planned to focus on mobile games going forward but surely you would have gradually downsized, dropped everything but mobile OS support, consolidated market control and then done something like this. Cart before horse.

Further edit: the executives might just be morons given how deep in Unity stock Johnny R supposedly is alone.

 

[Alex]

To be fair, most of that executive money is from company stocks, which don't really need to cost the company anything. And the second largest amount is options, which are, I understand, the promise to sell stocks to these people at an agreed upon price up to x months later. Options such as these only "cost" money in the sense that the company could have sold these stocks for a better price on the open market, that is, they are a missed opportunity. And that is assuming they are even taken in first place.

Most of the value in that sheet is just pretend money, issued by the company itself. It would be very profitable for these people if their company did well. In fact, given Riccitello and company had received so much in the firm of stocks, I find the theory that they were trying to short company stocks much less likely now.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

 

[MerchantKing]

So if I uninstall and reinstall a game over and over again a developer will bankrupt?

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

So if I uninstall and reinstall a game over and over again a developer will bankrupt?

That's assuming Unity's numbers aren't complete asspull.

 

[Space Satan]

 

[Fedora Master]

There's uphill battles and then there's trying to walk straight up mid-air.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

https://www.eurogamer.net/unity-wil...-switch-to-its-ad-monetisation-service-report

A fresh report into Unity's hugely-controversial decision to start charging developers when their games are downloaded has thrown fresh light on the situation.

MobileGamer sources say Unity has already offered some studios a 100% fee waiver - if they switch over to Unity's own LevelPlay ad platform.

The report quotes industry consultants that say this move is an "attempt to destroy" Unity's main competitior in this field: AppLovin.

The LevelPlay suite of tools allows you to "control every aspect of your monetisation strategy" via in-game ads in Unity games for smartphones, with various types of ads, ad testing and analytics available to serve up commercial content most likely to earn money.

"This puts the whole Runtime Fee announcement in the 'mediation war' spotlight,” consultant Matej Lancaric said. "Unity is saying 'migrate to LevelPlay or you will need to pay shit-ton of money'.

"For those smaller developers, there is no other option but to migrate to LevelPlay mediation to save their companies. The rest are already thinking about [other game development engines] Godot or Cocos2D."

Unity makes an oblique reference to this plan in its blog post on the controversial fees, with a note that "qualifying customers may be eligible for credits toward the Unity Runtime Fee based on the adoption of Unity services beyond the Editor, such as Unity Gaming Services or Unity LevelPlay mediation for mobile ad-supported games".

Developers reading the blog post are then encouraged to "please reach out to your account manager to learn more".

The move puts into context the emphasis Unity places on its use within smartphone gaming, compared to the audience for Unity games on PC and console.

Unity is yet to respond to the report.

Unity announced its plan to charge game developers every time their titles are downloaded by players earlier this week, prompting a wave of anger and confusion despite a number of subsequently-tweaked rules and exceptions.

In the last 24 hours, Slay the Spire studio Mega Crit said it will cut ties with Unity and restart its next game project on a fresh engine if Unity's plans were not "completely reverted".

 

[luj1]

Unity just autodestructed

Idk what were they thinking but good

 

[Azdul]

https://www.eurogamer.net/unity-wil...-switch-to-its-ad-monetisation-service-report

A fresh report into Unity's hugely-controversial decision to start charging developers when their games are downloaded has thrown fresh light on the situation.

MobileGamer sources say Unity has already offered some studios a 100% fee waiver - if they switch over to Unity's own LevelPlay ad platform.

The report quotes industry consultants that say this move is an "attempt to destroy" Unity's main competitior in this field: AppLovin.

The LevelPlay suite of tools allows you to "control every aspect of your monetisation strategy" via in-game ads in Unity games for smartphones, with various types of ads, ad testing and analytics available to serve up commercial content most likely to earn money.

"This puts the whole Runtime Fee announcement in the 'mediation war' spotlight,” consultant Matej Lancaric said. "Unity is saying 'migrate to LevelPlay or you will need to pay shit-ton of money'.

"For those smaller developers, there is no other option but to migrate to LevelPlay mediation to save their companies. The rest are already thinking about [other game development engines] Godot or Cocos2D."

Unity makes an oblique reference to this plan in its blog post on the controversial fees, with a note that "qualifying customers may be eligible for credits toward the Unity Runtime Fee based on the adoption of Unity services beyond the Editor, such as Unity Gaming Services or Unity LevelPlay mediation for mobile ad-supported games".

Developers reading the blog post are then encouraged to "please reach out to your account manager to learn more".

The move puts into context the emphasis Unity places on its use within smartphone gaming, compared to the audience for Unity games on PC and console.

Unity is yet to respond to the report.

Unity announced its plan to charge game developers every time their titles are downloaded by players earlier this week, prompting a wave of anger and confusion despite a number of subsequently-tweaked rules and exceptions.

In the last 24 hours, Slay the Spire studio Mega Crit said it will cut ties with Unity and restart its next game project on a fresh engine if Unity's plans were not "completely reverted".

While Unity offer is compelling - especially that you can potentially get a discount by using LevelPlay - do you know that you can make 4 times more per game installation ?

Average F2P monetized mobile game makes 25c per game installation. By not using Unity - you can earn 25c instead of 5c.

Migrating 2D mobile game from Unity to one of countless other 2D engines is not as hard as rewritting 3D PC / console game to not use Unreal engine.

It would be like Epic/Tencent - instead of dropping Unreal licensing costs for games published on EGS - increased them 20x for games published outside EGS. Many developers would have no choice but to embrace EGS - as changing the engine adds few years to the game development.

However - Tim Sweeney would never put Epic Games existence at risk just to destroy Steam.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Unity just autodestructed

Idk what were they thinking but good

Good? Scummy Epic having close to a monopoly after Unity implosion will be anything but good.