World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Grunker]

The diverse experience of playing different clans is a clear and giant highlight, but I have no hopes they're gonna recreate that. Don't you think they would have mentioned it repeatedly and emphasized it a lot during the announcement if that were the case? They did mention the game changes based on the clan you choose, but they said it with enough ambiguity I'm skeptical we're gonna get something like the variety of Nosferatu's different gameplay, Malk's different dialogue, Tremere's unique player hub and so on. At least I'm hoping they will diversify the disciplines.

I was kind of surprised they mentioned the fifth edition rules during the announcement, I figured there would be no chance you would have stuff like a character sheet and P&P mechanics.

 

[gerey]

The diverse experience of playing different clans is a clear and giant highlight, but I have no hopes they're gonna recreate that. Don't you think they would have mentioned it repeatedly and emphasized it a lot during the announcement if that were the case? They did mention the game changes based on the clan you choose, but they said it with enough ambiguity I'm skeptical we're gonna get something like the variety of Nosferatu's different gameplay, Malk's different dialogue, Tremere's unique player hub and so on.

It's almost guaranteed they'll shit up the Malks because they're an "offensive" portrayal of the mentally ill and the Nosferatu because it's "offensive" to call another person ugly. Being that they are filthy communists I dread what they'll do with the Venture too.

I'm also confused regarding the convoluted way they plan to implement character creation and Clan choice. Why does the protagonist have to start out as a human, then a thinblood and only after that become a fully fledged vampire? How do they plan to make the protagonist get away with diablerie? That's the vampire equivalent of cannibalism, and they don't react to any better than humans would to having a cannibal among them - difference being that vampires can tell at a glance you've sucked out someone's soul.

It all seems so pointlessly over-complicated.

 

[Lacrymas]

Thin-bloods have the capability to learn (more like mimic) all the disciplines, so there's no need to diablerize anyone, they can learn them by "joining" a clan. That's not how it works in PnP, but that's how it's going to work in this game. Like I said before, it's less work to model the different clans and that's why they went this route, no more unique models and clothes for the different clans.

 

[gerey]

So, basically, this shitshow isn't even going to try to translate the PnP mechanics to video game format? Clans are one of the most iconic aspects of VtM and the most defining trait of any vampire characters. To water down such a crucial aspect because they're too lazy/incompetent to implement it properly does not bode well for the game.

 

[Roguey]

I really really hope they'll manage to deliver something like that and that clan selection for example, wont be only a choice of favorite "powers"

Becoming a nosferatu doesn't even make sense narratively. Why would anyone willingly want to become a freak who has to navigate sewers to get around when they have the option to become a vampire who doesn't have to be that way? This conveniently also saves them a lot of work (no special dialogues, no special scripting that resulted in Nosferatus being dead-ended in unpatched Bloodlines because no one had ever fully tested it in QA)

 

[Lacrymas]

So, basically, this shitshow isn't even going to try to translate the PnP mechanics to video game format? Clans are one of the most iconic aspects of VtM and the most defining trait of any vampire characters. To water down such a crucial aspect because they're too lazy/incompetent to implement it properly does not bode well for the game.

Maybe it will, depending on how it works. The special thin-blood discipline allows them to "recreate" or mimic other disciplines through formulae, so maybe they'll be able to create the formulae when they join the clan. That's PnP-friendly. But yeah, no clan for the protagonist, unless they actually do diablerize someone and become a lower generation. Even then, I doubt our appearance will change depending on clan.

 

[jewboy]

I just watched a VTMB youtube dance video featuring Chiasm: Isolated and some very very good CG dancing. If only real humans could dance that well. Only Africans and some Latin Americans can even come close. Always wondered how they implemented that. I hope not cheating with motion capture. It actually made me want to dance even though I was never the type. It was sort of mesmerizing to just watch the dancing for a while.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Thin-bloods have the capability to learn all the disciplines, so there's no need to diablerize anyone, they can learn them by "joining" a clan. That's not how it works in PnP, but that's how it's going to work in this game.

Like I said before, it's less work to model the different clans and that's why they went this route, no more unique models and clothes for the different clans.

it's 2019, why would there need to be unique models? don't we have the ability to shape out own custom characters even in a lot of cellphone games? Haven't interchangeable clothes been a thing in games since Oblivion?

 

[Lacrymas]

Since we know we can equip stuff (like that Tender shirt), it might be possible we'll get unique clothes when we join the clans. That'd be cool.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

"I joined the tremere clan and all I got was this lousy t-shirt"

 

[gerey]

Since we know we can equip stuff (like that Tender shirt), it might be possible we'll get unique clothes when we join the clans. That'd be cool.

"I joined the Nosferatu and all I got was this shirt and ugly mask"

Truly the GOTYAY.

 

[Black]

 

[Lacrymas]

Cthulhu, like always, is right.

 

[Prime Junta]

Becoming a nosferatu doesn't even make sense narratively. Why would anyone willingly want to become a freak who has to navigate sewers to get around when they have the option to become a vampire who doesn't have to be that way?

You're asking that question... on RPG Codex?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's a Paradox game, there won't be a complete edition for a decade.

 

[Grunker]

I'm also confused regarding the convoluted way they plan to implement character creation and Clan choice. Why does the protagonist have to start out as a human, then a thinblood and only after that become a fully fledged vampire?

Almost certainly because they want to gradually introduce mechancis and concepts rather than overwhelm you with a character sheet from the outset.

EDIT: Depending on how long these segments last, it might not be that different from the original's tutorial.

 

[Lacrymas]

If I were to become a vampire in WoD, I wouldn't want to be a Nosferatu. Perhaps a Tremere or what is left of the Cappadocians.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I'm also confused regarding the convoluted way they plan to implement character creation and Clan choice. Why does the protagonist have to start out as a human, then a thinblood and only after that become a fully fledged vampire?

Almost certainly because they want to gradually introduce mechancis and concepts rather than overwhelm you with a character sheet from the outset.

EDIT: Depending on how long these segments last, it might not be that different from the original's tutorial.

making you start out as a thinblood is pretty weak regardless of the reason.

what's next? A GTA game that forces you to play a black guy or a russian?

 

[hivemind]

Perhaps a Tremere

>wanting to literally be enslaved in a pyramid scheme for all eternity

 

[Grunker]

I'm also confused regarding the convoluted way they plan to implement character creation and Clan choice. Why does the protagonist have to start out as a human, then a thinblood and only after that become a fully fledged vampire?

Almost certainly because they want to gradually introduce mechancis and concepts rather than overwhelm you with a character sheet from the outset.

EDIT: Depending on how long these segments last, it might not be that different from the original's tutorial.

making you start out as a thinblood is pretty weak regardless of the reason.

what's next? A GTA game that forces you to play a black guy or a russian?

I get that you're joking but you're really not that different from a thin blood in the original. There's a good argument a P&P vampire with a similar introduction to unlife would be Caitiff.

 

[Grunker]

Perhaps a Tremere

>wanting to literally be enslaved in a pyramid scheme for all eternity

People who like Tremere are the worst. Not only the sign of an unbalanced and powerhungry narcissist, but far worse: an indication that they enjoy the blatant, hamfisted parts of the setting that lack the subtlety and balanced dynamics characterizing the rest of it

 

[Lacrymas]

Yes.

 

[hivemind]

Tzimisce masterrace should have gassed the usurpers when we had the chance.

Vicissitude is so cool I just wish it wasnt literally just The Eldest infecting you tbh

 

[Van-d-all]

Psssst, the emo goth vampire fiction fans of the 1990s and 2000s were pretty much the same type of people who nowadays become social justice fans.

Vampire: The Masquerade and the whole story-centric RPG trend of the 1990s was essentially proto-SJW and its adherents can be found inhabiting the rpg.net forums to this day. It may have been different once, but it was never implicitly reactionary or conservative the same way traditional medieval fantasy roleplaying is.

Meh. Some fans - probably many fans - would later become SJWs, sure, but it's nothing approaching a given. There's a big leap between "live and let live" and the modern SJW ethos.

The World of Darkness books had an anti-authoritarian flavor - Mages struggle against the Technocracy, vampires against the manipulations of Elders - that could appeal to small-government conservatives (and classical liberals and libertarians). I'd agree that the setting isn't implicitly conservative, but it isn't hard-left either.

WoD is an edgy power fantasy, an over popular motive in American media (superheroes much?). It appeals to generally rebellious teens, it's just the right-leaning fedoras became the new edge like the Che t-shirt's were back then. You're just perceiving this through a modern lens IMO, that's why the emo drama of being an ultimate rebel pressed by ages old vampires seems non leftist nowadays. It's reflected in VtmB where anarchs were clearly tho most favored faction, however the devs were mindful enough, to insert the typical critique of any youth revolution, portraying them all as gullible clowns (maybe except Jack).

PS. An Infinitron post totally on point, aaaaaand it's gone...

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

>wanting to literally be enslaved in a pyramid scheme for all eternity

eh, that' basically all of the clans in the masquerade to some degree when you think about it.

I get that you're joking but you're really not that different from a thin blood in the original. There's a good argument a P&P vampire with a similar introduction to unlife would be Caitiff.

yeah, it's kind of a given that you're going to start from the weakest imaginable position in an RPG.

also, they don't want the player to just pick a side early on, so they give them a way to start out more neutral.

that said, I think it would all have been achievable with a few extra lines of dialog and some more creative writing. this does still smack of laziness to me.

btw, speaking of laziness, as far as the nosferatu goes, I wouldn't be surprised if they never gave the player the option to become a fully disfigured nosferatu and just applied some skin changes over time, should the player choose that route. could be wrong, but if we don't see the option to play a real nos and live life in the shadows, we'll know the kind of shitshow we're in store for.