World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[JBro]

Fitting.

One of those was me.

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

Personally didn't care much for the CQM, fanfiction tier writing of the new content was a turn off. It just wasn't up to the caliber of the original writing, which was to be expected, but it was too jarring a difference for me. Your mileage may vary of course, it's nice in concept of changing up one of the last just kill everyone areas into something else entirely.

This makes me feel vindicated for reasons I can't disclose. But thank you for making an old man feel righteous for a second.

 

[Delterius]

Gonna install the clan mod and replay Bloodlines again.

im playin the clan mod for the first time, seems fun

i regret this

 

[ColonelTeacup]

This. SJW themes in this setting make no sense whatsover.

Psssst, the emo goth vampire fiction fans of the 1990s and 2000s were pretty much the same type of people who nowadays become social justice fans.

Vampire: The Masquerade and the whole story-centric RPG trend of the 1990s was essentially proto-SJW and its adherents can be found inhabiting the rpg.net forums to this day. It may have been different once, but it was never implicitly reactionary or conservative the same way traditional medieval fantasy roleplaying is.

The SJWs of today really arose out of gamergate. It's true that many from the 90s counterculture co-opted the SJW movement, but many others didn't. Billy Corgan for example is right wing now.

GG happened because of the sort of people who try to turn everything into a librul/commie power fantasy.

"I'm retarded and accept Fox News propaganda at face value"

You were insinuating that SJW arose out of GG. This is factually wrong and logically impossible. Without SJW types there would not have been a Gamergate and GG proved just how deep the liberal soyfag rabbit hole really ran. The only reason that shit remained contained within the gaming industry, largely, was because game journos are the most retarded of all commie foot sloggers and thus incapable of properly hiding their cronyism.

On the contrary, SJWs had already destroyed an atheism community, were embedded deeply into the comic scene, and others I can't remember right now. It's just that in terms of resistance, gaming was the only hobby that really pushed back up to that point.

 

[sser]

SJWs also melted the 'Occupy' movement from the inside out. Very convenient for those in power.

 

[Prime Junta]

if you had said fledgling this thread would turn into a larp

I meant Brian. He seems to be the one answering the questions.

I can't find a Twitter account for him, does he have one?

Mitsoda?
https://twitter.com/bmitsoda

Thanks. New tweet sent.

Kanye West confirmed. You heard it here first.

 

[Saerain]

So what do y'all think, playable Banu Haqim?

They're core Camarilla now, and their treatment in the V5 book is pretty well-thought-out, up there with its sections on religiosity and the Second Inquisition. And it's an opportunity to gamble for woke points. But they could very well be done with anything that risky after the Chechnya backlash gutted White Wolf.

Bets?

I'm confused how the last few pages of this thread happened the way they did. Were Vampire: The Masquerade and Bloodlines written by liberals/leftists? Obviously. Have liberals/leftists become so extreme and authoritarian that they'd lump the liberals of the 60s-00s into the far right now? Obviously.

Well said, and moreover, you'll notice those politically active on the left don't use "liberal" anymore in the US, except sarcastically to mock liberals as alt-right adjacent fascism apologists.

In that sense, I'm reminded of how communists and fascists wrote about liberalism pre-WW2, each decrying it as a bunch of fence-sitting useful idiots.

Not something that inspires me with hope.

They also confirmed in twitter that the game will have mod support.

Paid mods incoming

Oh, baby. I could make so much hot fliff by just renaming "body type" to "sex".

 

[laclongquan]

A vampire game in modern setting is a vampire game.
A vampire game in medieval setting is a fantasy game.
Get shit straight.

 

[Reinhardt]

vicious animalistic beasts who rape and eat children in the countryside

But it's exactly what they are.

 

[vortex]

Energy vampire:

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Energy vampire:

Isn't that essentially what the Kuei-jin are?

 

[Rahdulan]

Energy vampire:

Hold on, there's a TV show coming up? I had no idea.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Kanye West confirmed. You heard it here first.

Just no Youtubers / Let's Players please.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Jack Black confirmed.

(Overspending on VA in games should be a punishable offence.)

 

[Grunker]

VtM:B has terrific writing, atmosphere, and worldbuilding. The rest ranges from acceptable (character mechanics) to borderline terrible (moment to moment gameplay).

I find it puzzling that you mention level design and C&C. The hubs are nice enough (and very immersive, with believable locations) but the combat areas are basically corridors, a few exceptions aside. They get downright bad after Hollywood, everybody hates the sewers. As to C&C there really is none, it’s completely on rails up to the point where you get to pick your ending.

Agreed - I found "atmosphere" to be the real MVP here. Above everything else, that's why you remember the game so vividly. Other cool but forgettable games have cute writing or memorable characters, but Bloodlines is a clear contender for the most atmospheric game ever made. From the minute you get to the title screen you are treated to just the PERFECT menu theme along with a visual aesthetic that combines so well you can't even seperate the two anymore - you see that menu screen, you think of that music, and vice versa. It's cohesive, in other words, and informs you immediately about the game's mood. Then you enter the world and get the distinct impression that every visual designer had to write the project's vision on a blackboard 500 times before they could start working. There's just no other explanation of how everything fits so well together and seems to be designed by a single mind around a single, great idea. The most ubiquitous description of WoD found in all source material is that of it being our world, just bathed in deeper contrasts of dark colors, more gothic visuals and more intangible but deeper felt emotions - violence is more violent but expensed with less restraint, pain is more painful, if there's a skyscraper there's a gargoyle and if there's dancing there's drugs etc. This simple manifest seems to have governed the visual design completely, and Troika kind of interpreted it in an almost cartoony manner. The world is gritty and depressing, sure, but it almost has the tone of a comic book with deep and vivid colours, characters who aren't afraid to joke while relaying their otherwise serious banter, have overstated facial expressions and whose expressiveness is exaggerated (incidentally why I never got the people who claim the source engine "expressions" of the characters look dated, I think they fit the game very well). As far as the colours go, it's not just contrast, either: most of the colours of the game "bleed" (no pun intended) and the visual design of colour being washed out with water is constantly repeating, which was perhaps an obvious thematic choice but it's made genius by just how present it is in every part of the game.

Then on top of everything drawing you in visually, the soundtrack is just perfect - a clear example of how context matters. Like, listen to Lecher Bitch more than 3 times on Spotify and you get sick of it if you didn't in the first 8 seconds, or listen to Cain by Tiamat and feel like you're listening to some edgy teenager's idea of depth, but listen to that shit in the context of the experiences and atmosphere of Bloodlines and it is somehow imbued with a quality many of these songs just do not possess on their own (though some do). The actual score designed specifically for the game is extremely good as well, such as the horror theme playing in Grout's basement, which I still use today whenever I need to evoke the emotion of uncertain, ambiguous horror in a P&P game. The songs have been chosen and the score designed by the same tenets as the visual design - so you get the depressing cries or angry outbursts of drug-addled clubbers combined with sounds that are simultaneously vibrant and colourful (I'm not a music expert and as such do not possess the proper terminology to describe what I mean, but to get what I'm saying listen to the theme in VV's club or, again, the main theme. You have a slow pace combined with drawn out of chords, twisted sounds, clearly present base etc. Especially the drawn out chords makes the music "bleed" with the colours, again evoking that style of fluidity and, as cliche as it is, a melodramatic longing which is key to the edge and let's be honest about it: emo, that makes vampire fun). Then you have the repeated praise of what is perhaps still the best voice acting of any video game (though ironically some of the worst too - Mitsoda's own, for instance). Again, much of it borders on being cartoonish which totally works because it fits with the exaggeration of expression and contrast of colours that binds the game's worldbuilding together. To this it adds great writing that fits with the style - a snarky cynicism that rarely goes to Deadpool levels which means it ends up being more grounded ("The Golden Temple in Chinatown - it's a pisspoor copy of a real place") and the fact that the politics of the world are fleshed out in some way or another in almost every single conversation makes it seem like you're playing a game with high stakes even if the C&C is minimal, and quests or plot development that often focus on one of the greatest themes of WoD: how agency is a mirage, information is always incomplete and the larger structure of society and power is the true decider (even if some endings sort of spoils these themes, the Anarch ending being the worst offender even if that was my favorite when I was younger).

Why is the snuff quest so horrifying (at least before it turns into a slog of boring mechancis)? Because every part of Bloodlines’ audiovisual design and writing has informed you about its world to a point where your imagination can easily fill in the blanks of what is NOT disclosed to you at the beginning of this plot thread. The fact that the world has been so well-established means that the simple act of introducing a snuff film to it means your mind begins to run wild with horrifying ideas - "oh my fucking God - given how bleak and shitty this world has been up to now, how warped can it make snuff?" or even the very banal: "Which of these unfeeling monsters am I pursuing right now, and what am I gonna find while pursuing it?" Any answer you are likely to come up with while pondering these questions is sure to be uncomfortable. But one of the best scenes to underline how atmospheric Bloodlines is, in my opinion, is the initial meeting with Gary. This character is everything that is great about Bloodlines. Haunting, yet somehow strangely appealing and even weirdly friendly, almost cozy. The dinner is a horrorific scene, sure, but Gary’s tongue-in-cheek nostalgia makes it seem almost cute and endearing. Gary himself is Sharply written with PERFECT voice acting - but also kind of cartoonish when looked at holistically. Sarcastic and cynical, but not to the point where he negates meaning in a careless manner or becomes edgy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfT7Bj0Zk7w

You sum all of this up - as well as all the other little things that add to this design such as the environmental storytelling, the overabundance of clever or interesting details, or the constant, ever-present ambiguity of everything (Pisha being a true highlight here - almost every detail the game divulges about her just deeps the wider questions you have about her) - you get a product that evokes true immersion, loathe as I am to use the word. Not by some fake and superficial attempt at 360 degree simulation but by taking immense care to sell you on its world in every little detail. In fact, Bloodlines kind of shames a lot of the modern sandbox games by showing how foolish their attempts at achieving immersion through emulating the real world is - you don't get sold on a fiction by it copying the real world, that just draws attention to the areas where the world clearly doesn't act as it should (like how GTA has reached the pinnacle of superficial realism but its completely wacky mechanics and player freedom totally undermines its attempts at emulation, which is why they had the terrible idea of punishing you for having fun in the 4th). You get sold on a world by it adhering to its own, internal logic, its inner consistency, if its themes are otherwise appealing. How well it mirrors the real world doesn't matter at all - how well all the pieces fit into a convincing whole within its own fictional contract with you, the audience, is all that matters. That’s why Bloodlines can present you with supernatural abominations and clear nonsense without ever losing your trust in its “realness.”

In other words, Bloodlines is like an ode to the importance of aesthetics. A critical memo to those (including me at some points in my life) who would claim that "substance" (i.e. game mechanics, themes of the story or whatever) is the only worthy pursuit.

I realized I just gushed for half a page but in reality, I guess from a Codexian point of view the above could be viewed as criticism. Because besides well-written characters and superb atmosphere, two things that the Codex usually don't emphasize as that important, Bloodlines hasn't really got much going for it. But by Christ those elements are so extremely well-crafted I forgive all these faults and still enjoyed my seventh playthrough immensely, even if the 6 years between that and my last playthrough had given me plenty of time to wipe the nostalgia from my glasses.

 

[EverlastingLove]

Sewers weren't bad.

Not only I didn't mind the sewers, but I actually enjoyed this section on my first playthrough. Sure, my Malkavian could easily omit many confrontations, but I still had to do some fighting. I liked the sense, that I ventured far into the unknown territory, completely cut off from the rest of the world, stuck with those Sabbath abominations. It was pretty tense to the point that when I finally managed to get to the Nosfetaru I felt relieved, I was safe and the mood of the Nosferatu hideout was so calming. My main gripe is that the sewers hurt replayability pretty badly, because slashing through all those monsters time and time again just isn't fun.

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

snop

The part of the charm about the atmosphere is how "in world" it feels. There are no callous remarks about reality aside from a single joke concerning Republicans, no references to "current events", no judgemental talk about modern morality etc. Everything is associated with the WoD and WoD alone. In that sense, the game is rich and vibrant despite its dark overtones. We are not going to get that again. Everything now is completely politicized in reference to reality.

 

[Kem0sabe]

How much virtue signaling with the VO cast? Celebrity sjws along with a surprise appearence from our favorite tropes whore telling the PC how full of tropes the game is.

 

[TrueNeutralPaladin]

Psssst, the emo goth vampire fiction fans of the 1990s and 2000s were pretty much the same type of people who nowadays become social justice fans.

Vampire: The Masquerade and the whole story-centric RPG trend of the 1990s was essentially proto-SJW and its adherents can be found inhabiting the rpg.net forums to this day. It may have been different once, but it was never implicitly reactionary or conservative the same way traditional medieval fantasy roleplaying is.

Meh. Some fans - probably many fans - would later become SJWs, sure, but it's nothing approaching a given. There's a big leap between "live and let live" and the modern SJW ethos.

The World of Darkness books had an anti-authoritarian flavor - Mages struggle against the Technocracy, vampires against the manipulations of Elders - that could appeal to small-government conservatives (and classical liberals and libertarians). I'd agree that the setting isn't implicitly conservative, but it isn't hard-left either.

 

[conan_edw]

Bloodlines is so good that someone ends up writing a retrospect when he just wants to agree .

 

[Herald of Durance]

or listen to Cain by Tiamat and feel like you're listening to some edgy teenager's idea of depth

You take that back! Tiamat actually became one of my favourite bands after hearing them in Bloodlines for the first time. Though the last time I saw them, the singer was fucked up, forgetting lyrics, rambling between songs etc.

I love me some goth music and hope it will come back in Bloodlines 2.

 

[Grunker]

Well, I dunno what to tell you. I sort of like the aesthetics of the song but think the lyrics are kind of cringy. Yet within the context of Bloodlines, the plot with Ash and the general sensation of longing to connect, the music is elevated. It gains a quality through the context.

 

[Roguey]

You take that back! Tiamat actually became one of my favourite bands after hearing them in Bloodlines for the first time. Though the last time I saw them, the singer was fucked up, forgetting lyrics, rambling between songs etc.

I love me some goth music and hope it will come back in Bloodlines 2.

The music will have to be contemporary and I have no idea if that music scene is even around anymore. I'll laugh if they put a Muse song in one of the clubs/bars to annoy Jaesun.

I'll be disappointed if the hub music doesn't have that "strung out on downers" feeling. That's timeless.

 

[Jimmious]

Of course after all this I started another VtM:B game, with the last clan I didn't try so far: Tremere

Which brought into my mind what I believe is a really important feature of the first game and something that made it so awesome (apart from characters and atmosphere as Prime Junta said):
How much your selections in character building affect your gameplay. Be it from the differences that different clans bring in the table (as Nosferatu you'll have to walk through sewers, as Malkavian you get all these crazy things etc) to the skills you pick (they change your approach to different missions a lot) etc
I really really hope they'll manage to deliver something like that and that clan selection for example, wont be only a choice of favorite "powers"

 

[Black]

Tremere is the master race of Bloodlines.