World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[rusty_shackleford]

I get that you're joking but you're really not that different from a thin blood in the original.

what

 

[Grunker]

Psssst, the emo goth vampire fiction fans of the 1990s and 2000s were pretty much the same type of people who nowadays become social justice fans.

Vampire: The Masquerade and the whole story-centric RPG trend of the 1990s was essentially proto-SJW and its adherents can be found inhabiting the rpg.net forums to this day. It may have been different once, but it was never implicitly reactionary or conservative the same way traditional medieval fantasy roleplaying is.

Meh. Some fans - probably many fans - would later become SJWs, sure, but it's nothing approaching a given. There's a big leap between "live and let live" and the modern SJW ethos.

The World of Darkness books had an anti-authoritarian flavor - Mages struggle against the Technocracy, vampires against the manipulations of Elders - that could appeal to small-government conservatives (and classical liberals and libertarians). I'd agree that the setting isn't implicitly conservative, but it isn't hard-left either.

WoD is an edgy power fantasy

Literally the most central theme of WoD is how no matter what power you gather or how much control you seem to be able to exert, you are ultimately a slave to the combined, structural God of circumstance and society (expressed in the abstract conflict of Jyhad and the literal power of the blood). Only by seperating yourself from the Jyhad can you show any meaningful agency (Inconnu/Golconda), since, in the words of Marla Daniels: "You cannot lose, if you do not play."

That 90% of the player-base are too infantile to understand this isn't the fault of the game (well, at least its initial conception, during the years it definetely became more defined by the retarded players than its own original idea).

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Tzimisce masterrace should have gassed the usurpers when we had the chance.

Vicissitude is so cool I just wish it wasnt literally just The Eldest infecting you tbh

yeah, the coolest discipline is actually just vampire herpes.

 

[hivemind]

wonder if there will be an incel nosferatu character

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

wonder if there will be an incel nosferatu character

BRIAN, IF YOU ARE READING THE THREAD, PLEASE LET HIM BE NAMED WARPIG!

 

[hivemind]

brian if you are reading this thread please start lifting you were super hot before but the belly is really doing you no favours

your voice is 10/10tho

 

[Van-d-all]

Psssst, the emo goth vampire fiction fans of the 1990s and 2000s were pretty much the same type of people who nowadays become social justice fans.

Vampire: The Masquerade and the whole story-centric RPG trend of the 1990s was essentially proto-SJW and its adherents can be found inhabiting the rpg.net forums to this day. It may have been different once, but it was never implicitly reactionary or conservative the same way traditional medieval fantasy roleplaying is.

Meh. Some fans - probably many fans - would later become SJWs, sure, but it's nothing approaching a given. There's a big leap between "live and let live" and the modern SJW ethos.

The World of Darkness books had an anti-authoritarian flavor - Mages struggle against the Technocracy, vampires against the manipulations of Elders - that could appeal to small-government conservatives (and classical liberals and libertarians). I'd agree that the setting isn't implicitly conservative, but it isn't hard-left either.

WoD is an edgy power fantasy

Literally the most central theme of WoD is how no matter what power you gather or how much control you seem to be able to exert, you are ultimately a slave to the combined, structural God of circumstance and society (expressed in the conflict of Jyhad). Only by seperating yourself from the Jyhad can you show any meaningful agency (Inconnu/Golconda), since, in the words of Marla Daniels: "You cannot lose, if you do not play."

That 90% of the player-base are too infantile to understand this isn't the fault of the game (well, at least its initial conception, during the years it definetely became more defined by the retarded players than its own original idea).

Quite frankly that's what I consider the VtmB's genius. To actually relay that message. But honestly the P&P 1E, along the huge majority of it's fanbase was all about being a powerful bloodsucker doing edgy shit they couldn't do IRL (Werewolf was even worse), so much so, it made me so averse to the WoD in general it took me around 2 years to finally get over it and try VtMB. Never touched P&P again though.

 

[hivemind]

yeah honestly superheroes with fangs players deserve to be gassed

like I get wanting an occasional power fantasy but making it the main deal is just like holy shit

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Hmm. I see some other possible reasons for making the player a thin blood:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Thin-blooded

Many thin-blooded vampires are able to learn strange and rare Disciplines without training, while others develop their own powers, a feat normally impossible for any but the lowest generations. These rare individuals are sometimes called Inceptors, a title usually reserved for ancient vampires who spend centuries developing new powers of the blood. Even with powers they create themselves, however, the thin-blooded cannot achieve high mastery of Disciplines: 14th generation vampires can only learn up to level 4, and 15th generation vampires only up to level 3 of any Discipline. They are also harder to learn, costing both generations more experience.

While I doubt we will be creating any disciplines ourselves as players, our character may end up with some special power or something.

Also, limiting the player to level 4 disciplines would probably be easier in an FPS, since the higher level abilities require a lot more freedom to implement.

and

The thin-blooded also share an oracular ability that is amplified within groups and grants them knowledge of the plots and deeds of Methuselahs and the Antediluvians. Naturally, this makes them of great interest to the few who know their secret, but debates rage over the source of their visions and whether they can be trusted. Some believe the visions are memories of things glimpsed during their longer than normal period between death and rebirth as a vampire, while others believe the thin-blooded are being used by the Antediluvians to mislead those who would fight them. Many Kindred simply want to destroy anyone who could learn their secrets through such gifts, though for their part the thin-blooded rarely understand the significance of what they see.

This might be a thing. Player visions for the story. Maybe not though.

 

[Sykar]

Perhaps a Tremere

>wanting to literally be enslaved in a pyramid scheme for all eternity

People who like Tremere are the worst. Not only the sign of an unbalanced and powerhungry narcissist, but far worse: an indication that they enjoy the blatant, hamfisted parts of the setting that lack the subtlety and balanced dynamics characterizing the rest of it

Or just likes magic.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Hmm. I see some other possible reasons for making the player a thin blood:

Starting as a thin-blood doesn't imply being limited to it.

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

WoD is an edgy power fantasy.

That generally means a bad DM. WoD can be played as a terrific human drama where you are a damned creature with a clear black and white morality painting you evil. You start at this point and then you have to decide where you go from that. A good DM can weave a redemption arc, an adventure story (flippancy) or even a power fantasy (casual) with it. But the core storyline is always finding your own nature. the DM needs to showcase the situation where the NPCs are unrepentant monsters, lost souls, or helpless victims. The Unrepentant monsters can be of the pure bestial form or power hungry jerks to whom the curse is simply another way to seize control of others. Hardly, the typical edgy stuff about being a special butterfly a la Twilight.

 

[axedice]

Isn't diablerizing a fugitive/heretic a thing in WoD? You catch a criminal for a clan and then join them by taking the place of the deceased maybe?

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

So, basically, this shitshow isn't even going to try to translate the PnP mechanics to video game format? Clans are one of the most iconic aspects of VtM and the most defining trait of any vampire characters. To water down such a crucial aspect because they're too lazy/incompetent to implement it properly does not bode well for the game.

Maybe it will, depending on how it works. The special thin-blood discipline allows them to "recreate" or mimic other disciplines through formulae, so maybe they'll be able to create the formulae when they join the clan. That's PnP-friendly. But yeah, no clan for the protagonist, unless they actually do diablerize someone and become a lower generation. Even then, I doubt our appearance will change depending on clan.

On the other hand, it’s Paradox. Unique looks and outfits depending on the clan you join seems like exactly the kind of thing they’d do, it’s just that they’ll probably charge extra for it.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Starting as a thin-blood doesn't imply being limited to it.

I'm guessing that if diablere is an option, it won't be given until the end of the game.

Of course, there is another option: it's all a PR and/or dev misunderstanding of the terms and what they really meant all along was caitiff.

 

[gerey]

Perhaps a Tremere.

So you want to be part of one of the biggest cabal of assholes in the setting, who everyone hates and wants dead? That one Clan that doesn't even understand the concept of social mobility?

Starting as a thin-blood doesn't imply being limited to it.

Yeah, but about the only way you can move up a generation is by diablerizing someone else, and you can only get away with that without a Prince declaring a blood hunt on your ass if you're part of the Sabbat, and I'm pretty sure you're not playing as a Sabbat member in 2.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Perhaps a Tremere.

So you want to be part of one of the biggest cabal of assholes in the setting, who everyone hates and wants dead? That one Clan that doesn't even understand the concept of social mobility?

eh? are you confusing them with the tzimisce?

 

[Lacrymas]

Tremere are the most powerful clan in the Camarilla in the modern nights, so even if everyone wants them dead, that's a moot point. Unless you mean the Tzimisce. There seems to be on-going contemporary streak of people wanting to poison the happiness of the privileged and powerful. You might've heard of it. I'm more interested in the scholarly branch, though, that's why I'm up for the Cappadocians as well.

 

[Storyfag]

about the only way you can move up a generation is by diablerizing someone else, and you can only get away with that without a Prince declaring a blood hunt on your ass if you're part of the Sabbat

Inaccurate. The Blood Hunt is called that, because it is the hunt for the blood of the offender. It is permissable to drain the target of a Blood Hunt. The only legal way of attaining a higher generation in the Camarilla.

and I'm pretty sure you're not playing as a Sabbat member in 2.

Never say never.

 

[Zero Credibility]

From what I remember of the setting when the blood hunt gets declared powers that be tend to look away if the target gets his soul sucked away.

edit: bloody skeletal ninja

 

[Storyfag]

Tremere are the most powerful clan in the Camarilla in the modern nights, so even if everyone wants them dead, that's a moot point. Unless you mean the Tzimisce. There seems to be on-going contemporary streak of people wanting to poison the happiness of the privileged and powerful. You might've heard of it. I'm more interested in the scholarly branch, though, that's why I'm up for the Cappadocians as well.

Before the Tremere came to be, the greatest Cainite scholars and occultists were the Tzimisce koldun sorcerers

 

[ArchAngel]

Perhaps a Tremere

>wanting to literally be enslaved in a pyramid scheme for all eternity

I guess people like to mimic their RL in their roleplaying games.

 

[gerey]

Isn't diablerizing a fugitive/heretic a thing in WoD? You catch a criminal for a clan and then join them by taking the place of the deceased maybe?

Doesn't work like that. Diablerizing is the vampire equivalent of cannibalism, only you're sucking up the soul of the victim, and doing it leaves a black stain on your own soul (on top of a massive hit to your Humanity) that every vampire with even the most basic Auspex powers can detect. You're pretty much painting a bullseye on your back for doing it, and doubly so if you don't have the raw power to get away with it.

eh? are you confusing them with the tzimisce?

Tremere are the ones responsible for the extermination of the Salubri, which were the token good guy vampire Clan. As for the Tzimisce, they're monstrous assholes too, but at least when they make a vow or offer you hospitality and shelter, they'll go as far as sacrificing themselves to uphold it. They're monsters with standards, Tremere are just backstabbing dipshits that everyone hates, regardless if they're allied to the Camarilla or the Sabbat, but especially Tzimisce and Gangrel.

 

[Lacrymas]

Tzimisce are kind of like wild animals or psychopaths, in that you can't really ever trust them, no matter how tamed or trustworthy you think they are. You just never know when or if they'd turn on you.

 

[hivemind]

Tremere are the most powerful clan in the Camarilla in the modern nights,

imagine being a willing slave and a waiting dinner for the antediluvians and their servants

this post was made by the sword of Caine gang