World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Smerlus]

HBS has been pretty silent after their last game.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Those people didn't know how to make RPGs.
On the other hand Shadowrun devs do know ;-)

Would totally be on board with Harebrained picking up the pieces!

...annnnd them picking up Mitsoda too. Although being owned by Paradox, that seems unlikely.)

 

[Spacer's Nugget]

https://bmitsoda.com/blog/what-is-a-narrative-designer-arent-they-just-writers

Spoiler

What is a Narrative Designer? Aren’t They Just Writers?

I frequently hear narrative designers referred to as “writers” and while they often do write for projects, it misrepresents and dismisses their abilities as designers. It’s about the same as calling a Lamborghini engineer a “grease monkey” just because they can repair a car. If you were ever under the delusion that a bunch of writers think up stuff and the rest of the team makes it, allow me to kill any romantic notions of how games are made.

As a narrative designer, we are tasked with presenting information and reinforcing the story elements through the entire player experience and giving context to the actions they take in the game. While it’s true that dialogue and writing convey story elements, this is just one of the ways we convey narrative elements to the player. Narrative designers help make decisions on the narrative structure of the game, such as:

• How is information presented to the player?
  
  
• What systems and tools are needed to convey this information?
  
  
• How can narrative support other elements of the game?
  
  
• How do other systems reinforce the narrative?
  
  
• What information is crucial versus optional in player understanding of the story?
  
  
• Does the narrative work within the guidelines set out by the directors, stakeholders, and IP holder?
  
  
• Does the narrative scope work within production time constraints and personnel available?

Generally, I work on RPGs which are some of the most complex narratives to make based on elements such as branching narrative, reactivity, and the sheer number of systems that might need to support or be supported by the narrative design. When work starts on a new project for me, there is generally nothing in place. Think of a blank void - that’s all that exists for the game at the moment you start. Everything from this point on needs to be designed, built, and engineered and all of these elements generally have dependencies such as personnel needed or priority systems that need to be finished before other systems can be designed.

For example, if you want the ability for characters to talk to each other or the player in the game, you will need a dialogue tool/editor to be able to make this happen. But then you have to think of the extent of the actions that the designers or other departments will need from the dialogue editor:

-Can more than one character be involved in a dialogue at a time?

-Can the player choose their responses?

-How does the tool’s design and UI make it easy to write characters and replies without making it frustrating or time-consuming for writers/designers to create dialogues?

-Is this tool used for cutscenes?

- Are player skills represented within the replies?

-What common markup is needed for checks, reactivity, rewards, or progression (for example - give/take cash, give XP, check player gender, set quest = done, etc.)?

-Is there an easy way for writers/designers to pick or autocomplete markup to save time built in?

-Can designers or implementers trigger audio, cutscenes, or world events from the dialogue system?

-Does the tool have line IDs built in to make it easier to implement localization and voice over?

-If the game has VO, what are the needs for a “shooting script” version of the dialogue (like hiding markup or giving context)?

-Does the tool have the functionality to spit out a roadmap of all possible player choices and consequences for QA purposes?

-What does the player-facing UI need to convey and how does it let players know they are using skills or making a decision?

-What camera angles are being used in dialogue and can the designer control them from the dialogue easily?

-Does the dialogue system support the ability to set animation poses per line or even within a line?

-What format are the files saved in and what is the naming convention for dialogue files?

-Is there an internal testing tool that generates a test scenario for the dialogue and what elements does it generate?

Assuming you’re still reading this, those questions above are just a few that need to be asked, answered, designed into a tool with a user interface, and engineered/refined just to get dialogue in the game. Now imagine anything in the game that needs narrative elements and text - lore, notes, computers, item descriptions, emails, texting, phones, mission objectives, player journal, combat barks, signs, character creation/skill sheet, tool tips, tutorials, world map, or even credits. All of these systems need to go through the same process of identifying internal tools needs and player-facing elements. All of these tools are used at one time or another by the narrative team to help produce content within the game.

In addition to designing the basic tools and foundations that just allow narrative designers to create content, there’s a host of other tasks narrative designers need to produce content or help other departments create content. Some of these would be:

-Setting standards and guidelines for the writing team.

-Setting narrative goals for the project that support the project pillars.

-Laying out all narrative elements for high-level story beats, quests, or levels in internal documentation and keeping it up to date.

-Figuring out the time and resources needed per level of scope so that quests can be designed within scope parameters and don’t go over budget.

-Plotting out branching dialogues and other reactivity.

-Meeting with implementers to make sure quests/mission elements not handled by narrative are working as designed such as a combat encounter or critical path trigger.

-Scripting markup in dialogues and testing dialogue branches and quest functionality to make sure they work as designed.

-Drafting cutscenes and storyboards with art/animation/cinematics.

-Reviewing and editing the work of other writers or narrative designers.

-Cooperatively working with artists to develop character/item concepts or environmental/world-building elements.

-Regular meetings with other departments to maintain narrative cohesion or suggest ways narrative can reinforce other elements of the game such as combat (like barks) or levels (environmental storytelling elements).

-Estimating time per task for production schedules.

-Management reviews and notes that need to be addressed in future revisions.

-Answering questions about narrative elements over email or Slack/Discord.

-Presenting narrative design or story to members of the team or publisher.

-Generating PR and marketing materials.

-Fixing bugs, revising work, and testing fixes.

That’s just a small sample of tasks that a narrative designers handle on a daily basis. Most of them aren’t writing or creative work and can involve a lot of face-to-face time, paperwork, and planning. There’s a lot of negotiation, collaboration, revision, and rhythmic banging of one’s head against a desk. While players might notice your work in the character dialogue, they rarely think about all of the other technical elements working under the hood to consistently reinforce the narrative.

Ultimately, the narrative design of the game involves a lot of problem solving, resource management, communication, understanding of what other departments do, revision, denial, bargaining, acceptance, and sometimes hope. When we’ve got all that out of the way, we occasionally find the time to actually write for the game. And so if you were wondering what the difference between narrative designers and writers is, there you go.

Feel free to ask your questions about narrative on my Twitter and I’ll try to answer them in a future update.

 

[Roguey]

If HBS were involved they would have announced it. Paradox couldn't announce who the new studio was because the contract wasn't signed.

And Brian's start-up thing must have fallen through if he's decided to make time to promote himself like this.

 

[Eli_Havelock]

maybe don't fire the people who actually know how to make RPGs ?

It's now the rules to be a game developer that you gotta purge the impure or else you're am bigotry yourself for letting it exist. Besides, we all know that racism and misogyny ruined HSL Bloodlines 2, the good developers just didn't get rid of it all fast enough. Better luck next time!

 

[Background Character]

HBS has been pretty silent after their last game.

Because it was fucking SHIT

MORE SHADOWRUN, FAGGOTS

 

[Mefi]

HBS were last seen hiring people for a 'horror project', long before this particular game needed new devs, presumably one of the two new games they had lined up for once Battletech was done.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

maybe don't fire the people who actually know how to make RPGs ?

Those people didn't know how to make RPGs.
On the other hand Shadowrun devs do know ;-)

HBS will never make anything close to dragonfall again.
compare the credits of dragonfall to battletech
https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/shadowrun-dragonfall/credits
https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/battletech/credits

Half the people listed in shadowrun are interns, temps, or QA. The core team was very small. And many of those people are either missing or had very minor roles in battletech per the credits.

 

[negator2vc]

maybe don't fire the people who actually know how to make RPGs ?

Those people didn't know how to make RPGs.
On the other hand Shadowrun devs do know ;-)

HBS will never make anything close to dragonfall again.
compare the credits of dragonfall to battletech
https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/shadowrun-dragonfall/credits
https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/battletech/credits

Half the people listed in shadowrun are interns, temps, or QA. The core team was very small. And many of those people are either missing or had very minor roles in battletech per the credits.

But the designers - writers are still there (per the credits).
And one of the main reasons people (including me) loved Shadowrun Dragonfall (and its siblings) was the well written story, dialogues, interactions
And while I am not a fan of giant robots (except of course Robotech ;-) ) the Battletech's story-dialogues, etc were quite good (if predictable).

Beside what other studio Paradox has that can make an RPG like Bloodlines 2 (without crapping all over it like the previous one did)?

 

[Fenris 2.0]

Why the Fuck did they even use the Title "Bloodlines" - couldn't they just use "Vampire - The Masquerade - Twilight" ? From the Title I expected to play in LA and meet a lot from the Cast of Bloodlines or to play the "Fledgeling" in an epic Adventure about Gehanna. Why use a Franchise that the Writers seem to despise ?

 

[Roguey]

Why the Fuck did they even use the Title "Bloodlines" - couldn't they just use "Vampire - The Masquerade - Twilight" ? From the Title I expected to play in LA and meet a lot from the Cast of Bloodlines or to play the "Fledgeling" in an epic Adventure about Gehanna. Why use a Franchise that the Writers seem to despise ?

Because they had to let people know that this was a successor to the cult classic Bloodlines. A different subtitle wouldn't convey that.

 

[Delterius]

Bloodlines 2 is happening.

 

[vota DC]

Why the Fuck did they even use the Title "Bloodlines" - couldn't they just use "Vampire - The Masquerade - Twilight" ? From the Title I expected to play in LA and meet a lot from the Cast of Bloodlines or to play the "Fledgeling" in an epic Adventure about Gehanna. Why use a Franchise that the Writers seem to despise ?

Because you need blood to get Aids.

 

[Saerain]

HBS were last seen hiring people for a 'horror project', long before this particular game needed new devs, presumably one of the two new games they had lined up for once Battletech was done.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was another WoD project. White Wolf has been trying to spray-and-pray with the license ever since the "One World of Darkness" thing. Been kinda conspicuous that we've only seen a few VNs and Werewolf so far. Maybe V5's underperformance put a damper on things.

 

[Neki]

I wonder if its gonna have a sewer section too.

 

[Harthwain]

I wonder if its gonna have a sewer section too.

Didn't they already showed a sewer (when you have to go to a Nosferatu)? Also, some clans - including Nosferatu - were supposed to be added post-launch (free of charge), so going by that alone it stands to reason there would be sewers to help a Nosferatu player to stay out of sight. If not because he absolutely HAS to, then at least for lore-related reasons.

 

[Rean]

I wonder if its gonna have a sewer section too.

Didn't they already showed a sewer (when you have to go to a Nosferatu)? Also, some clans - including Nosferatu - were supposed to be added post-launch (free of charge), so going by that alone it stands to reason there would be sewers to help a Nosferatu player to stay out of sight. If not because he absolutely HAS to, then at least for lore-related reasons.

If they wanna play Nosferatu, then they'll have to crawl through the sewers just like their ugly as fuck ancestors have traditionally done. Although, knowing nu-White Wolf, Paradox and Fucksuit Labs they would much rather provide the option to just frolic freely on the surface alongside everyone else and accuse onlookers of being 'racist' or provide the option to be a 'Transferatu', a Nosferatu who's actually a pretty princess inside and out.

 

[Harthwain]

Although, knowing nu-White Wolf, Paradox and Fucksuit Labs they would much rather provide the option to just frolic freely on the surface alongside everyone else and accuse onlookers of being 'racist' or provide the option to be a 'Transferatu', a Nosferatu who's actually a pretty princess inside and out.

Just so you know, it was possible in Bloodlines 1 to walk relatively freely on the surface, because the detection radius for your ugly Nosferatu mug was very generous.

 

[Rean]

Just so you know, it was possible in Bloodlines 1 to walk relatively freely on the surface, because the detection radius for your ugly Nosferatu mug was very generous.

Yes. But the game was imperfect and incomplete and, after all, still a videogame and not tabletop. There was a lot of content that would be missed if you were only allowed to traverse underground. People still were terrified of your appearance, though. Would it be politically correct to call someone a monster based on their appearance in 2021? A Nosferatu doesn't look that much worse than the average Hardsuit employee, after all.

 

[Harthwain]

Yes. But the game was imperfect and incomplete and, after all, still a videogame and not tabletop.

It being a video game has nothing to do with it and it could've been handled better. Make the detection radious larger, but "suspiction" meter filling slower depending on distance, so you could still do a quick pass at longer range. And I am not mentioning the possibility of stealthing your way around.

There was a lot of content that would be missed if you were only allowed to traverse underground. People still were terrified of your appearance, though.

In my experience it was mostly cosmetic. A nice touch, certainly, but cosmetic still. And this pains me a lot in cRPG as of late: instead of players coming to their own solutions, the game has to pre-bake solutions and all player's potential paths has to be "standardized". It's the biggest problem I have with the narrative-style games and the main reason why I am angling towards games that only have "bring me X" requirement as your objective, leaving you free how you handle the "bring me X" thing.

Would it be politically correct to call someone a monster based on their appearance in 2021? A Nosferatu doesn't look that much worse than the average Hardsuit employee, after all.

I don't really give a damn, because I am - as they say - based when it comes to some stuff. You want to make a game about vampires? Then you might not want to be a politically correct nancy. It's not going to pay off anyway if you don't know how to make a good game in the first place, because it's not the political correctness that sells games, it's the product itself. So if you have a solid, non-politically correct game, then I think the players are going to appreciate it. We have examples of that around us already.

 

[Storyfag]

If they wanna play Nosferatu, then they'll have to crawl through the sewers just like their ugly as fuck ancestors have traditionally done. Although, knowing nu-White Wolf, Paradox and Fucksuit Labs they would much rather provide the option to just frolic freely on the surface alongside everyone else and accuse onlookers of being 'racist' or provide the option to be a 'Transferatu', a Nosferatu who's actually a pretty princess inside and out.

Or y'know, just let the Nosferatu wear a gimp mask? Works wonders, I... uh... heard.

 

[Delterius]

the sabbat thugs wearing hoodies are like a non retarded version of the nosferatu player character

 

[Neki]

I feel like rooftops would be a cool alternative to a sewer section, or maybe your nosferatu character when wearing a big hoodie could be disguised when around hobos.

Its there any(lore) reason other than it would make the game boring that nozzies can't just drive a car with tinted windows?

 

[Caim]

Its there any(lore) reason other than it would make the game boring that nozzies can't just drive a car with tinted windows?

They would need to get out of their cars eventually.

 

[Storyfag]

Its there any(lore) reason other than it would make the game boring that nozzies can't just drive a car with tinted windows?

They would need to get out of their cars eventually.

Take the hint, dammit: