World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Ismaul]

rewrite problematic original content

Is it even possible to remove the "problematic" content without removing the game itself?

 

[Wesp5]

It just occurred to me what they're going to do
VTMB - ReVamped

They actually tried. The modder Atrblizzard was already working on a Bloodlines remake years ago, but CCP stopped him cold when they owned the IP. Paradox talked with him after they bought it, but it seems the copyright to every asset in the game itself belongs to Activision and they just don't care or are not willing to waste monney while the original Bloodlines still sells after all these years. Atrblizzard is still working on a remake using the Unreal Engine just for fun: https://twitter.com/atrblizzard

 

[Storyfag]

rewrite problematic original content

Is it even possible to remove the "problematic" content without removing the game itself?

Lemme see... Tourette? Out! Venus? Out! Fat Larry? Out! Velvet? Out! Kuei-Jin racism? Out! The hooker from the pestilence investigation? Out! Grout? Out! The snuff film? Out! The Sin Bin? Out!

That does leave *some* meat, but admittedly not much.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm curious as to how they'll even portray malkavian considering showing people with mental issues negatively is unPC.

 

[Delterius]

It just occurred to me what they're going to do
VTMB - ReVamped

They actually tried. The modder Atrblizzard was already working on a Bloodlines remake years ago, but CCP stopped him cold when they owned the IP. Paradox talked with him after they bought it, but it seems the copyright to every asset in the game itself belongs to Activision and they just don't care or are not willing to waste monney while the original Bloodlines still sells after all these years. Atrblizzard is still working on a remake using the Unreal Engine just for fun: https://twitter.com/atrblizzard

even the chinese are at war against urban fantasy

it's fucking over

 

[Vincente]

I'm curious as to how they'll even portray malkavian considering showing people with mental issues negatively is unPC.

By making him perfectly sane. "He's so incurably mad that he seems like a normal person" is the new fishmalk.

 

[Storyfag]

I'm curious as to how they'll even portray malkavian considering showing people with mental issues negatively is unPC.

By making him perfectly sane. "He's so incurably mad that he seems like a normal person" is the new fishmalk.

TBH, the fishmalk is rather lame. The apparently sane Grout types are much more interesting.

 

[Harthwain]

I'm curious as to how they'll even portray malkavian considering showing people with mental issues negatively is unPC.

By making him perfectly sane. "He's so incurably mad that he seems like a normal person" is the new fishmalk.

TBH, the fishmalk is rather lame. The apparently sane Grout types are much more interesting.

What do you mean by "The apparently sane"? He was sane. His madness has begun only at a certain point. While those around him might've not noticed this, they did notice him acting stranger as the time went on.

 

[Roguey]

He was sane. His madness has begun only at a certain point. While those around him might've not noticed this, they did notice him acting stranger as the time went on.

He was lucid than most Malks, he wasn't sane.

 

[Harthwain]

He was sane. His madness has begun only at a certain point. While those around him might've not noticed this, they did notice him acting stranger as the time went on.

He was lucid than most Malks, he wasn't sane.

It is quite clearly said in his recordings when he started going insane (hearing the voices).

 

[Roguey]

It is quite clearly said in his recordings when he started going insane (hearing the voices).

Pay attention to his logs.

I shall mourn the disappearance of that peculiar environment present only in an insane asylum. That palpable atmosphere of blistered brains and churning bowels, the odiferous mélange of freely flowing bodily humours, that gently rolling cacophony of distant sobs and screams, the muttered cursing at perceived enemies and the blissful gurgling of the lobotomized

What I would give for just one interview, a few simple questions of the plague ridden woman who met her end that dawn. Of course there is no guarantee she would have been any more helpful than my current crop of test subjects: mewling wretches! Few could be called 'enthusiastic'. Given the nature of the tests, I cannot expect the same fervor from all, but a modicum of cooperation would be appreciated; animals! The one called 'John' went so far as to gnaw off his arm and escape into the floorboards like some feral rodent. I still hear him scurrying about at night, he must be making an atrocious mess in there».

Then there's the state of his wife and his belief that he can "cure" her, and his portrait showing his wild unkempt hair.

 

[Harthwain]

Pay attention to his logs.

I did. It doesn't have to mean he was insane, just inhumane. Humans can be like that and vampires even more so (given the fact they can lose their humanity as time goes on and have to actually struggle to retain it).

Then there's the state of his wife and his belief that he can "cure" her, and his portrait showing his wild unkempt hair.

That's called obsession. Not giving a damn about how you look isn't a sign of insanity either. It just means you have more important things to do than organizing your hair.

Now, hearing voices - that is a clear sign of insanity. It's even better when information from said voices turns out to be reliable.

 

[Storyfag]

Pay attention to his logs.

I did. It doesn't have to mean he was insane, just inhumane. Humans can be like that and vampires even more so (given the fact they can lose their humanity as time goes on and have to actually struggle to retain it).

That is true. Had the logs been recorded by Andriei, nobody would suspect insanity. Just typical Tzimisce attitude to the outside world.

Then there's the state of his wife and his belief that he can "cure" her, and his portrait showing his wild unkempt hair.

That's called obsession. Not giving a damn about how you look isn't a sign of insanity either. It just means you have more important things to do than organizing your hair.

Now, hearing voices - that is a clear sign of insanity. It's even better when information from said voices turns out to be reliable.

I'd qualify the obsession as sufficient manifestation of Malkavian insanity.

 

[Roguey]

I did. It doesn't have to mean he was insane, just inhumane. Humans can be like that and vampires even more so (given the fact they can lose their humanity as time goes on and have to actually struggle to retain it).

He doesn't perceive himself as inhumane is the thing though.

That's called obsession.

She's dead. There's no sci-fi stasis technology in Bloodlines. His belief that she's alive and can be resuscitated once he figures out a "cure" is a delusion.

Not giving a damn about how you look isn't a sign of insanity either. It just means you have more important things to do than organizing your hair.

He commissioned and posed for that portrait. People typically make themselves look presentable for those.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I'm curious as to how they'll even portray malkavian considering showing people with mental issues negatively is unPC.

It's more that WW depicted insanity in a manner that was offensive, not that depicting people with psychological issues is inherently offensive.

I think Red Embrace: Hollywood handled this better, maybe. It has vampires from a "House Golgotha" who have powers of extrasensory perception. The problem is that many of them (but not all) cannot control this and it causes them intense anguish. Even those who can keep their power in check find themselves alienated from others by the knowledge they have, that they may not even understand themselves. Their shtick isn't that they're arbitrarily "crazy" but that they're tormented by their superpowers. Then again, I didn't actually enjoy the game so take my rec with a pinch of salt.

rewrite problematic original content

Is it even possible to remove the "problematic" content without removing the game itself?

There's also "problematic" content that fans overlook, such as the appropriated foreign names for the classes. For example, the counterculture punk class is named "witch" in Spanish, which will be confusing for Spanish speaking players used to playing other rpgs. WW picked the names out in 1990 because they sounded cool at the time and years later tried to contrive convoluted and unconvincing explanations for them. It was the fad in the 90s to take dictionary words and foreign words then assign them completely unrelated arbitrary meanings, as opposed to using simple English for everything or making up a conlang that doesn't have pre-existing baggage. Really makes me appreciate Rowling's wordsmithing a lot more. But we can't change the jargon because fans hate change, I guess.

I can easily imagine headlines like "new Paradox game is offensive to Hispanics because it culturally appropriates Spanish." Maybe it's a blessing that this IP is going down in flames before the SJWs can write article after article tearing apart every aspect of the design that Paradox then capitulates to because that's what they do now. My advice, as always, is that we're better off making new IPs.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's more that WW depicted insanity in a manner that was offensive, not that depicting people with psychological issues is inherently offensive.

this is a forum full of mentally unstable people and one of their favorite games is vtmb

 

[Harthwain]

I'd qualify the obsession as sufficient manifestation of Malkavian insanity.

Maybe. Obsession with loss of loved ones is such a common trope that I didn't think much of it. It is plausible to say his clan's bloodline could've intensified his obsession, although there is no way to be certain of it. And this, I think, is for the best, because it leaves open avenues for different theories.

He doesn't perceive himself as inhumane is the thing though.

Few do.

She's dead. There's no sci-fi stasis technology in Bloodlines. His belief that she's alive and can be resuscitated once he figures out a "cure" is a delusion.

She is literally Schrödinger's cat. We don't really have much information on her, except her being ill. It is not even clear what he meant by saying his wife had an illness. Maybe she became a vampire and went into torpor? You could be technically correct that she is in fact dead and he is just insane, but there is no way to tell for sure without actually checking it and that's not possible within the confines of the game.

He commissioned and posed for that portrait. People typically make themselves look presentable for those.

Spoiler

He has unkempt hair. He must be crazy too.

 

[EvilWolf]

He commissioned and posed for that portrait. People typically make themselves look presentable for those.

Not sure if you're remembering it that well, but I'm pretty sure that would have destroyed the whole motif of the painting.

 

[Storyfag]

I'm curious as to how they'll even portray malkavian considering showing people with mental issues negatively is unPC.

It's more that WW depicted insanity in a manner that was offensive

Did they really though? Never felt like that to me.

 

[Cricket McBangle]

I'm curious as to how they'll even portray malkavian considering showing people with mental issues negatively is unPC.

It's more that WW depicted insanity in a manner that was offensive

Did they really though? Never felt like that to me.

I was under the impression that it was more about TT players using Malkavians as an excuse to act like shitheads that annoy the fuck out of everyone else.

 

[Roguey]

Few do.

Most people don't have a casual annoyed attitude to people gnawing their arms off and hiding under the floor.

She is literally Schrödinger's cat. We don't really have much information on her, except her being ill. It is not even clear what he meant by saying his wife had an illness. Maybe she became a vampire and went into torpor? You could be technically correct that she is in fact dead and he is just insane, but there is no way to tell for sure without actually checking it and that's not possible within the confines of the game.

She's preserved in glass alongside every other object in that room preserved in glass. A new vampire isn't going to slip into torpor just like that.

He has unkempt hair. He must be crazy too.

He has long frizzy hair, but it's clearly combed. It's also a photo, not a portrait that had to be painstakingly drawn by an artist.

You seem to be under the impression that being insane only means babbling incoherently or seeing and hearing weird things all the time, but that's not necessarily the case. It can also manifest itself in having sincere beliefs in irrational thoughts, which is Grout's deal. The Malkavian curse doesn't work on a time delay.

Not sure if you're remembering it that well, but I'm pretty sure that would have destroyed the whole motif of the painting.

The point of the painting is to show that all these extremely-measured sounding words are coming out of a guy who looks and has the aesthetic tastes of a lunatic.

 

[Harthwain]

Most people don't have a casual annoyed attitude to people gnawing their arms off and hiding under the floor.

Because they aren't inhumane...? If you keep doing inhumane things for a period of time you will get used to it.

She's preserved in glass alongside every other object in that room preserved in glass. A new vampire isn't going to slip into torpor just like that.

No, but it is possible for a vampire to enter torpor due to the lack of blood. Nevertheless, this was merely a hypothetical example. Like I said earlier, we don't really have much info to go on so everything is theoretically possible, including your interpretation. All I am doing is pointing out the other possibilities as well.

He has long frizzy hair, but it's clearly combed. It's also a photo, not a portrait that had to be painstakingly drawn by an artist.

It doesn't really matter if it's a portrait or photo. The effect would've been the same for Mr. E regardless of the method. The same goes for his hair: it doesn't really matter it's combed, because it's still a mess at the end of the process. I had hair like that every time I woke up. The difference between us is that this is his "normal" hair, while I was able to not look like Chopin after using a hairbrush. For reference, this is the portrait of Chopin:

Spoiler

Your Honor, I rest my case.

You seem to be under the impression that being insane only means babbling incoherently or seeing and hearing weird things all the time, but that's not necessarily the case. It can also manifest itself in having sincere beliefs in irrational thoughts, which is Grout's deal. The Malkavian curse doesn't work on a time delay.

Well, there is an interesting suggestion that Grout's insanity may manifest through his focus on logic and reason. Besides that we have the voices, which are the undeniable sign of Malkavian's curse. They do take time before they manifest, but at the end you can clearly hear how they overwhelm his initial behaviour pattern. Grout himself says they "echo in the twisted corridors of my psyche", indicating he is aware that his psyche got twisted (read: he went completely insane).

 

[Delterius]

what part of this painting makes you think grout is crazy

for the record i thought it was his wife's portrait back when i first saw it

 

[Roguey]

Because they aren't inhumane...? If you keep doing inhumane things for a period of time you will get used to it.

I get the impression from his audio logs that he never had reservations about doing this kind of thing as a vampire.

No, but it is possible for a vampire to enter torpor due to the lack of blood.

She would have felt the urge to feed and done so, just as he had.

It doesn't really matter if it's a portrait or photo. The effect would've been the same for Mr. E regardless of the method. The same goes for his hair: it doesn't really matter it's combed, because it's still a mess at the end of the process. I had hair like that every time I woke up. The difference between us is that this is his "normal" hair, while I was able to not look like Chopin after using a hairbrush. For reference, this is the portrait of Chopin:

His hair is sticking up. He's also not even looking forward. I'm pretty confident he didn't look like this when he was running the asylum, no one would trust patients to a guy who looks like that, he looks like an inmate, not a doctor.

Well, there is an interesting suggestion that Grout's insanity may manifest through his focus on logic and reason. Besides that we have the voices, which are the undeniable sign of Malkavian's curse. They do take time before they manifest, but at the end you can clearly hear how they overwhelm his initial behaviour pattern. Grout himself says they "echo in the twisted corridors of my psyche", indicating he is aware that his psyche got twisted (read: he went completely insane).

The voices are the Malkavian Madness Network telling him the truth. They just didn't have anything to say until he started interacting with other vampires, their area of expertise.

 

[Harthwain]

I get the impression from his audio logs that he never had reservations about doing this kind of thing as a vampire.

I see this as his vampire nostalgia - talking about the "good old days". Keep in mind that we're talking about the field where it was normal to forcefully apply electric shocks for patients not too long ago (and that these patients were often unwilling or uncooperative), but nobody gave a shit as these people were classified as insane. Grout's experiment could simply veer into a more extreme extension of that, which is - again - not really surprising to me.

Also, he is searching for a cure and using "the end justifies the means" approach. People become capable of the most heinous acts when they are convinced of the pursuit of the most noble goals. Or simply because they are dedicated.

His hair is sticking up. He's also not even looking forward. I'm pretty confident he didn't look like this when he was running the asylum, no one would trust patients to a guy who looks like that, he looks like an inmate, not a doctor.

Maybe this is merely an artistic expression? You have black wolves(?) and stars in there too. Either that or he just had shitty hair. I am not really buying a theory that his hairstyle is proof of his insanity when we have the actual famous people having similar "my head doubles as a mop" haircuts in real life.

The voices are the Malkavian Madness Network telling him the truth. They just didn't have anything to say until he started interacting with other vampires, their area of expertise.

And it is these voices that end up driving him insane, which isn't exactly supporting your point about him being mad before that.