World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming Fall 2024

[Wesp5]

All the leaked HSL videos and web pages have been locked down (by Paradox?)! So has anybody here saved them for latter ? I wonder why they did this if they allegedly started from scratch anyway...

 

[Roguey]

They weren't fired because of the trailer. Paradox was in charge of marketing. If they didn't like a trailer, they wouldn't have released it.

 

[Delterius]

As for how the player character progressed from Thin Blood to 13th. Does it really matter that much? I mean whether you diablerie someone or some magic ritual happened, I'm sure they'd have wrapped into the plot somehow and made it work.

I just find it entertaining to speculate how that would happen. Odds are we'll never know what Brian or Hardsuit had in mind. So if I was the DM for this world how would I employ any of these scenarios.

If vampire magic or thinblood alchemy is used, how would I make it both believable and rare (since one assumes you'll be one of the few thinbloods who get to achieve clan status). I wouldn't just say 'well, we can combine the Ankaran Sawdust with vampire blood and give you a generation boost! But only once tho', that would be kinda sad. If diablerie is used, how would I make it so that the Camarilla Prince is ok with it - would it be a sentence by the Prince against someone who really deserves it? Would it be a crime on your part, albeit with extenuating circumstances? Can I think of other scenarios still?

It's just harmless fun.

The game can also not be super clever about it and sentence a group of co-conspirators, letting you diablerize one of them at your leisure.

What I didn't like about the whole thinblood idea though was that their disciplines were very strong right from the start. Which was made worse when HSL announced that you would get all three of them, because adding the different traversal options to all maps obviously was a nightmare.

You know what my impression was? That they couldn't make up their minds. New Vampire has these tools that make thinbloods a fun and valid way to play. They wanted those as well as Resonance, but they feared people would harp on being a lesser vamp and would miss the clans. So they had to have both. It's like making a Mage game where you start off as a Sorcerer who awakens at some point, instead of specializing in the ways that both experiences can be fun and unique.

This sounds good in theory, but in reality I never had a strong connection with Bloodlines, because the differences were too few and too shallow to make me feel like they mattered. It was, in short, too cosmetic. Dragon Age: Origins was a little bit better thanks to more detailed background introduction, which helped get you "in character" (and you got to have special say when you reached the content you "started" in).

I don't necessarily disagree. I primarily play Bloodlines as Tremere and Toreador, so the appeal there is something inherent to all experiences rather than the big differences in perspective. But I think we see eye to eye on Origins and you get what I mean. Sure, the story is the same after every Origin. But being a Human Fighter and killing the guy who destroyed your life is special and unique, whereas for a Mage that's just another bad guy to deal with. Sure, the Human Fighter and the Human Mage gets some special goodies here and there. One gets to become King, the other gets to ask for Mage Rights. The change in perspective remains the key either way, rather than outright C&C.

 

[Wesp5]

They wanted those as well as Resonance, but they feared people would harp on being a lesser vamp and would miss the clans.

Didn't Mitsoda and Co. mentioned somewhere that Resonance was their idea and added because of the game to V5?

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Paradox insists calling it "Masquerade", but all thier properties scream loudly "Requiem".

"Bloodlines" wasn't great just because setting. In fact, original books had much more common with "The Crow" movie or cringeworthy writing of Anne Rice. Troika, straightly from their Fallouts prime, transformed this gothwank material into macabresque (macabre + grotesque). It's more than silly Halloween estetique, but, in the same time, never try to charm you with naïve realism. This convention is very open, you could put there nearly whenever you like without breaking the mood. But this convention is hard, you need tendency to experiment equal to put up yourself barriers.

HS game was tailored with a heavy hand. Just look at the light in leaked gameplay - like angel glow making everything like covered with glass. But there is lurks a deeper problem. Parodox's "dangerous" streets and bars are clean and fulfilled whit flaccid vamps. Fights are nearly bloodless. People in boring hoodies i T-Shirts. No perceptible sense of style, edge or erotism. Just like in "Requiem".

I have no faith in their next WoD game. "Bloodlines" or another.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Paradox insists calling it "Masquerade", but all thier properties scream loudly "Requiem".

"Bloodlines" wasn't great just because setting. In fact, original books had much more common with "The Crow" movie or cringeworthy writing of Anne Rice. Troika, straightly from their Fallouts prime, transformed this gothwank material into macabresque (macabre + grotesque). It's more than silly Halloween estetique, but, in the same time, never try to charm you with naïve realism. This convention is very open, you could put there nearly whenever you like without breaking the mood. But this convention is hard, you need tendency to experiment equal to put up yourself barriers.

HS game was tailored with a heavy hand. Just look at the light in leaked gameplay - like angel glow making everything like covered with glass. But there is lurks a deeper problem. Parodox's "dangerous" streets and bars are clean and fulfilled whit flaccid vamps. Fights are nearly bloodless. People in boring hoodies i T-Shirts. No perceptible sense of style, edge or erotism. Just like in "Requiem".

I have no faith in their next WoD game. "Bloodlines" or another.

Did you ever read or play Requiem? Aside from cutting high level lore that was never relevant to how groups played the game, it’s the same experience as when Masquerade was released in 1991. I know butthurt haters still angry about their cargo cult going on hiatus in 2003 continue to spew misinformation, but it’s irrational claptrap.

Otherwise I agree 100%

 

[RaggleFraggle]

They wanted those as well as Resonance, but they feared people would harp on being a lesser vamp and would miss the clans.

Didn't Mitsoda and Co. mentioned somewhere that Resonance was their idea and added because of the game to V5?

I didn’t try playing V5, but resonance doesn’t look like a mechanic that works in a tabletop context. You have to eat particular types of people to advance your superpowers? It might work for a video game, but a tabletop has very different dynamics

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Paradox insists calling it "Masquerade", but all thier properties scream loudly "Requiem".

"Bloodlines" wasn't great just because setting. In fact, original books had much more common with "The Crow" movie or cringeworthy writing of Anne Rice. Troika, straightly from their Fallouts prime, transformed this gothwank material into macabresque (macabre + grotesque). It's more than silly Halloween estetique, but, in the same time, never try to charm you with naïve realism. This convention is very open, you could put there nearly whenever you like without breaking the mood. But this convention is hard, you need tendency to experiment equal to put up yourself barriers.

HS game was tailored with a heavy hand. Just look at the light in leaked gameplay - like angel glow making everything like covered with glass. But there is lurks a deeper problem. Parodox's "dangerous" streets and bars are clean and fulfilled whit flaccid vamps. Fights are nearly bloodless. People in boring hoodies i T-Shirts. No perceptible sense of style, edge or erotism. Just like in "Requiem".

I have no faith in their next WoD game. "Bloodlines" or another.

Did you ever read or play Requiem? Aside from cutting high level lore that was never relevant to how groups played the game, it’s the same experience as when Masquerade was released in 1991. I know butthurt haters still angry about their cargo cult going on hiatus in 2003 continue to spew misinformation, but it’s irrational claptrap.

Otherwise I agree 100%

I read "World of Darkness: Storytelling System Rulebook" and "Vampire: The Requiem" and I felt about this books strange need for making everything connected, predictable and clear. All patina and morbid dust were removed to create a more safe experience. As fan wiki stand:

"Gothic-Punk" vs. "Modern Gothic" — The World of Darkness setting was described as "Gothic-Punk", blending decaying gothic visuals and mood with brash punk attitude and energy. The new setting has instead been described as modern gothic, focusing instead on the dark gothic images and mood, pushing aside the "punk" in the description to an optional element rather than the focus.

I know that real players could do everything they want, but still, nWoD was obvious tone change.

Sigh...

https://legendary-digital-network-a...kandsundry/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/vpg.jpg

 

[Delterius]

They wanted those as well as Resonance, but they feared people would harp on being a lesser vamp and would miss the clans.

Didn't Mitsoda and Co. mentioned somewhere that Resonance was their idea and added because of the game to V5?

Did they? I don't know, I'm open to the idea. I do think Resonance came out together with thinblood alchemy way back in 2018 and Bloodlines 2 was first announced the following year, right? Maybe there was some exchange between White Wolf and Mitsoda, but I don't remember him saying that.

You have to eat particular types of people to advance your superpowers?

From what I understand the human's emotional state simply affects your disciplines and powers, affecting them in a certain way. It's not a form of progression, it's a buff or a debuff. In practice it means that if you eat someone at a night club you'll probably score someone who's euphoric in some way and you'll know how that empowers you. There's only a handful of Resonances and they group a number of different emotions, so it's not as unpredictable as one might imagine.

This is twice as convenient in tabletop because your vampire likely has a haven or even territory and their background gives them access to certain types of people. The world of tabletop being that much more versatile means that your vampire who's a physical brawler might have been a wrestler in life. They know people and places where aggressive or passionate people go to. So they have access to that resonance. But convenience is not all, as the players would adapt to the situation they are in. Imagine investigating a clandestine hospital filled with drugged and unconscious people. That is likely to affect your group's play should any of you need to feed.

 

[Cricket McBangle]

They wanted those as well as Resonance, but they feared people would harp on being a lesser vamp and would miss the clans.

Didn't Mitsoda and Co. mentioned somewhere that Resonance was their idea and added because of the game to V5?

Yeah, some of the V5 mechanics were co-developed by Hardsuit because of Bloodlines 2 including Resonance. One of the things being done to Bloodlines 2 now is updating it to better reflect V5 as a whole which sounds a little sad.

 

[Semiurge]

n-not desperate for crumbs or anything but I sure hope someone saved them.......... . .

All the leaked HSL videos and web pages have been locked down (by Paradox?)! So has anybody here saved them for latter ? I wonder why they did this if they allegedly started from scratch anyway...

This is a screenshot of one gameplay video, the one that shows the "mist" traversal option. Beta or not, never have I seen gameplay so sterile, soulless and unimaginative.

assuming diablerie I think its down to the plotline we know nothing about. the easiest solution I can imagine is a meta-choice, where you are diablerizing your sire and you've 'chosen' to be a tremere by discovering that your sire was tremere. it wouldn't be a buffet, you'd be retaliating against whoever did the mass embrace that turned you thinblooded. that would also take care of any animosity between your new clan and you. you'd be eating someone who really went out of line. but thats a lot of speculation.

Aren't all full vampires supposed to sense diablerie? If HSL went by the rules, your character should then be a target of some hostility from camarilla-aligned vamps, despite your powerful backers.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Aren't all full vampires supposed to sense diablerie? If HSL went by the rules, your character should then be a target of some hostility from camarilla-aligned vamps, despite your powerful backers.

I think it's work like normal intuition. Wiki says:

Diablerizing the soul of a Cainite of significant age is one of the few ways of lowering one's generation, for if the victim possessed more potent blood then the diablerist's, the diablerist's Generation drops by one, possibly more if the victim was of notably lower Generation. However, there is the risk of some portion of the victim's soul living on within the diablerist. Rumors abound of diablerists taking on the mannerisms of their victims, and even stranger tales speak of the victims consuming their assailants from within and taking over their bodies. Some Antediluvians and methuselahs are believed to have survived their death in this manner.

 

[Delterius]

Aren't all full vampires supposed to sense diablerie? If HSL went by the rules, your character should then be a target of some hostility from camarilla-aligned vamps, despite your powerful backers.

Yeah, diablerie is almost never fine in the Camarilla. I think that maybe the Prince might choose to look the other way depending on the circumstances, perhaps if the diablerized was the object of a blood hunt. But even then you'd be walking a fine line from then on. Especially given that old school Camarilla folks very much believe in the prophecies and thinbloods diablerizing their elders would be a way to fulfill them. It's hard to speculate without further specifics about the plot, but the Prince would probably not offer you the chance to commit diablerie.

Then again things are supposed to be weird so far from Europe.

 

[Tyranicon]

There's actually some interesting territory to be explored here if diablerie is in the game, and your victim ends up trying to overpower you mentally (or whatver the soul version is called). I just hope it's not handled like Keanu Reeves' character in CP2077.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Paradox insists calling it "Masquerade", but all thier properties scream loudly "Requiem".

"Bloodlines" wasn't great just because setting. In fact, original books had much more common with "The Crow" movie or cringeworthy writing of Anne Rice. Troika, straightly from their Fallouts prime, transformed this gothwank material into macabresque (macabre + grotesque). It's more than silly Halloween estetique, but, in the same time, never try to charm you with naïve realism. This convention is very open, you could put there nearly whenever you like without breaking the mood. But this convention is hard, you need tendency to experiment equal to put up yourself barriers.

HS game was tailored with a heavy hand. Just look at the light in leaked gameplay - like angel glow making everything like covered with glass. But there is lurks a deeper problem. Parodox's "dangerous" streets and bars are clean and fulfilled whit flaccid vamps. Fights are nearly bloodless. People in boring hoodies i T-Shirts. No perceptible sense of style, edge or erotism. Just like in "Requiem".

I have no faith in their next WoD game. "Bloodlines" or another.

Did you ever read or play Requiem? Aside from cutting high level lore that was never relevant to how groups played the game, it’s the same experience as when Masquerade was released in 1991. I know butthurt haters still angry about their cargo cult going on hiatus in 2003 continue to spew misinformation, but it’s irrational claptrap.

Otherwise I agree 100%

I read "World of Darkness: Storytelling System Rulebook" and "Vampire: The Requiem" and I felt about this books strange need for making everything connected, predictable and clear. All patina and morbid dust were removed to create a more safe experience. As fan wiki stand:

"Gothic-Punk" vs. "Modern Gothic" — The World of Darkness setting was described as "Gothic-Punk", blending decaying gothic visuals and mood with brash punk attitude and energy. The new setting has instead been described as modern gothic, focusing instead on the dark gothic images and mood, pushing aside the "punk" in the description to an optional element rather than the focus.

I know that real players could do everything they want, but still, nWoD was obvious tone change.

Sigh...

https://legendary-digital-network-a...kandsundry/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/vpg.jpg

Reading a wiki that’s been garbled by decades of biases and misinformation is no substitute for actually reading these decades old books. I have read the books, and Requiem is just another edgy emo goth game little different from its predecessor in basic premise. It’s still about bloodsucking assholes with superpowers who whine and complain about how sad and lonely they are while fighting over who gets feeding rights to the local orphanage.

The punk part is still part of the premise. Those wikis are full of shit. The core factions include Invictus (Not!Camarilla) and Carthians (Not!Anarchs) who oppose each other. The names are different and their structures are more variable, but it’s the same idea.

Aren't all full vampires supposed to sense diablerie? If HSL went by the rules, your character should then be a target of some hostility from camarilla-aligned vamps, despite your powerful backers.

I think it's work like normal intuition. Wiki says:

Diablerizing the soul of a Cainite of significant age is one of the few ways of lowering one's generation, for if the victim possessed more potent blood then the diablerist's, the diablerist's Generation drops by one, possibly more if the victim was of notably lower Generation. However, there is the risk of some portion of the victim's soul living on within the diablerist. Rumors abound of diablerists taking on the mannerisms of their victims, and even stranger tales speak of the victims consuming their assailants from within and taking over their bodies. Some Antediluvians and methuselahs are believed to have survived their death in this manner.

Try reading the books for once rather than relying on the garbled accounts of unsourced wikis written decades later based on thirdhand accounts. There are several errors in that paragraph, but I’m not gonna tell you what those are.

Aren't all full vampires supposed to sense diablerie? If HSL went by the rules, your character should then be a target of some hostility from camarilla-aligned vamps, despite your powerful backers.

Yeah, diablerie is almost never fine in the Camarilla. I think that maybe the Prince might choose to look the other way depending on the circumstances, perhaps if the diablerized was the object of a blood hunt. But even then you'd be walking a fine line from then on. Especially given that old school Camarilla folks very much believe in the prophecies and thinbloods diablerizing their elders would be a way to fulfill them. It's hard to speculate without further specifics about the plot, but the Prince would probably not offer you the chance to commit diablerie.

Then again things are supposed to be weird so far from Europe.

And this kind of convoluted high level lore bullshit is why I’m critical of buying ancient IPs to turn into skinsuits. Discussing lore was a pain back when the original writers were still in creative control and fans were expected to read the damn books before commenting. It’s infinitely worse decades later when none of the management knows what the fuck the lore even is and the latest crop of “fans” rely on garbled unsourced wikis for all their knowledge.

There's actually some interesting territory to be explored here if diablerie is in the game. I just hope it's not handled like Keanu Reeves' character in CP2077.

I think the fandom obsession with vore porn is pretty silly. Remember that silly hicky fight in the 2000 Queen of the Damned movie? This is that writ large.

 

[Delterius]

And this kind of convoluted high level lore

blood hunt and diablerie is high level lore now

or is it 'vampire faction thinks vampire murder is not ok', is that the high level lore

this is the third time i'm asking this question. but have you ever heard of vampires before this thread. not the masquerade, just in general

 

[La vie sexuelle]

There's actually some interesting territory to be explored here if diablerie is in the game, and your victim ends up trying to overpower you mentally (or whatver the soul version is called). I just hope it's not handled like Keanu Reeves' character in CP2077.

Whith this guy? Entire game.

 

[Delterius]

There's actually some interesting territory to be explored here if diablerie is in the game, and your victim ends up trying to overpower you mentally (or whatver the soul version is called). I just hope it's not handled like Keanu Reeves' character in CP2077.

I agree. The problem is we are talking about multiple versions of keanu reeves depending on clan, aren't we? That sounds very difficult to achieve, at least without some concessions.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

I think the fandom obsession with vore porn is pretty silly. Remember that silly hicky fight in the 2000 Queen of the Damned movie? This is that writ large.

I think your anger about my opinion and Wiki is pretty silly.

 

[Vincente]

Congrats on your custom tag RaggleFraggle , not many have the autism required for such feat.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

And this kind of convoluted high level lore

blood hunt and diablerie is high level lore now

or is it 'vampire faction thinks vampire murder is not ok', is that the high level lore

this is the third time i'm asking this question. but have you ever heard of vampires before this thread. not the masquerade, just in general

I certainly think this fandom obsession with vampire-on-vampire cannibalism takes away from the “vampires prey on humans” part. It’s Highlander as applied to vampires, and suffers similar problems.

I think the fandom obsession with vore porn is pretty silly. Remember that silly hicky fight in the 2000 Queen of the Damned movie? This is that writ large.

I think your anger about my opinion and Wiki is pretty silly.

I guess it is. Seeing people casually say completely wrong things about topics I was intimately familiar with is frustrating, but it’s the internet right? Misinformation and stupid takes are the norm. Ultimately it’s all dust in the wind.

Congrats on your custom tag RaggleFraggle , not many have the autism required for such feat.

Congrats. I don’t know why I bother. I can’t get rid of it

 

[Vincente]

I think your anger about my opinion and Wiki is pretty silly.

"Pretty silly" is one way to describe our resident WoD lolcow.

 

[Semiurge]

Congrats on your custom tag RaggleFraggle , not many have the autism required for such feat.

It would look even better with this:

 

[La vie sexuelle]

I think the fandom obsession with vore porn is pretty silly. Remember that silly hicky fight in the 2000 Queen of the Damned movie? This is that writ large.

I think your anger about my opinion and Wiki is pretty silly.

I guess it is. Seeing people casually say completely wrong things about topics I was intimately familiar with is frustrating, but it’s the internet right? Misinformation and stupid takes are the norm. Ultimately it’s all dust in the wind.

There are much more important topics for this lever of nitpicking and anger. Like economy. Drugs. Religion. Irritable bowel syndrome.

Besides, the most important is what Paradox doing with the brand now. They suck (clever am I?) life from WoD. What remains after last drop?

 

[Harthwain]

Reading a wiki that’s been garbled by decades of biases and misinformation is no substitute for actually reading these decades old books. I have read the books, and Requiem is just another edgy emo goth game little different from its predecessor in basic premise.

I liked the 1st edition manual 2nd edition revised core rulebook. It had style. Call it "edgy", "emo", "goth" or whatever but I think it fit very well with the atmosphere of vampires existing in the world of mortals. In fact and it not being fine and dandy for either vampires or mortals. In fact, I enjoyed reading the manual more than I enjoyed reading Dracula. You know, the GOTHIC NOVEL by Bram Stoker?

I certainly think this fandom obsession with vampire-on-vampire cannibalism takes away from the “vampires prey on humans” part. It’s Highlander as applied to vampires, and suffers similar problems.

It's not Highlander though. What is discussed is how plausibly turn a thin-blood into a "proper" vampire (and maybe even offer the player a choice of a clan). This is not "There can be only one!" type of scenario.