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Victoria 3

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Multi-headed Cow, May 21, 2021.

  1. AgentFransis Arbiter Patron

    AgentFransis
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    Sampled 10 random points in the video, saw no gameplay, closed the video. If you don't have gameplay to show you should shut the fuck up and get back to work.
     
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  2. Talby Arcane Patron

    Talby
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    Codex USB, 2014
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. fantadomat Arcane Edgy

    fantadomat
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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. thesheeep Arcane Patron

    thesheeep
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    Women I get.

    But monkeys? What...
    That's a bit more "alternate history" than I remember from what little I played Vic2...
     
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  5. fantadomat Arcane Edgy

    fantadomat
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    I don't,most of the world don't. The idea of feminism and suffragettes is alien to most people in the world. It is entirely english problem and english reaction,most people around the world used their women for works and didn't see them as dolls that must stay at home and be useless. The whole idea sounds retarded to me. Both women and men have their rights and duties to perform,yet they are not identical.
     
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  6. vonAchdorf Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    vonAchdorf
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    CK2 also had a furry mode ("Animal Kingdom").
     
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  7. Harthwain Cipher

    Harthwain
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    Could be the reference to Planet of the Apes.
    Show Spoiler
    Or the black people... :smug:


    By the way, who is this Mikael Andersson? Did he do anything of note before Victoria 3? Because I am not buying the whole "here, at Paradox, we are so very queer, feminist and enlightened" from someone who looks like a shabby version of Santa Claus. I am guessing they decided they need someone to pretend they are progressive company for the sake of PR and this guy got singled out.
     
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  8. Demo.Graph Learned

    Demo.Graph
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    All that turbo queer is nice considering that Vicky pops count able-bodied males only. Females, children, elders, disabled, queers and monkeys were represented by productivity modifiers.
    Are we in for a complete maths remake?
     
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  9. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

    AwesomeButton
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    The harsh realization is that the world has been ruled by monkeys who have been ruled by women.
     
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  10. what am i doing Arcane

    what am i doing
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    I wish I shared your optimism, but I think it's more likely they genuinely do support that garbage.
     
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  11. Mikeal Magister

    Mikeal
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    By monkeys he means playable African nations?
     
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  12. Jonathan "Zee Cat Savant

    Jonathan "Zee Cat
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    we had polar bears back in the day, way more superior. At least now we will be able to return to monkey and become a anprim society.
     
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  13. Sranchammer Arcane

    Sranchammer
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    I'm Ridin' with Biden I'm Ridin' with Biden
    One of my best gaming experiences was fighting the Union and Mexico as the Confederacy in the 1880s.

    4 years of apocalyptic casualties had them Yankee invaders on the brink of surrender before perfidious Albion joined the fray. I have never forgiven them.
     
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  14. Humanophage Arcane

    Humanophage
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    The valuable thing about Victoria 2 is that it is one of the less gamey strategies out there. It does not aim for balance and elegance, unlike regular strategies. Rather, it tries to simulate the outcome of its period such that you end up with a plausible historic result if you let it play out on its own (not just in terms of territory but also development, ethnic make-up, etc.) It gives you many parameters at which to look. E.g., the population is given correctly such that you can compare your country to the historic country over time, instead of in some gamey units. It needed to double down on this and give stats like GDP per capita and so on, child mortality, murder rates, average height, etc. It's the perfect timeframe for that kind of Galtonian poring over social statistics.

    The AI builds factories concept is fine because it emulates having no control over the development of the economy and everyone screwing up development. It's quite preferable to a system of bonuses, for example, which is how economic policy is generally tackled in strategies. The resources are treated in a way that softly makes countries mimic their historical behaviour - e.g., the implausibility of industrial development in countries like Spain. Unlike other Paradox games, it has few cases where you press a button and something happens - even with things like research, most of the heavy benefits appear by chance if you have corresponding techs. It would have been good if they increased this gradualism and inability to directly influence things except via long-ranging policy.

    In this sense, it resembles the attempts to mimic the tabletop system without altering it, which is a common complaint that normies have about stuff like Pathfinder or even Baldur's Gate. This is a completely non-mainstream and rare approach, so I don't see why you think it is normie.

    The big problem with Victoria is that it fails to handle culture very well, so it is too easy to uphold large empires. At least it tries with things like limiting foci. It would have been a great opportunity to introduce some hardcore anti-blobbing mechanics such that if you want to keep your unrealistic blob, you have to basically cleanse it of any population by the 1920s so it becomes worthless.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2021
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  15. Harthwain Cipher

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    It's not optimism. I just find it uncredible that corporations genuinely support this. I am much more inclined to believe in them faking support for the sake of PR and because it happens to be the latest fad, but I bet you they would cease that support the moment they realize the big money (and public support) lies somewhere else. Just look at China-related stuff (such as the movies). In the end all corporations care for are money, regardless of how much they like to tell you about their supposed values.
     
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  16. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    :nocountryforshitposters:
     
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  17. what am i doing Arcane

    what am i doing
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    My impression is the other way around; I think they do support it and want to push it on people, but not to such an extent that it would immediately alienate their audience; they would rather do it gradually until it is widespread enough that they can force it. The majority of the population has no interest in the poison they're pushing (so it isn't that they're just adopting it for financial purposes), it's just that they know the culture in the west is such that there won't be significant backlash and people will hold their noses and continue to do business with them despite mildly disliking the virtue signal, whereas they have to be more gradual/subtle in places like China (ie, African American less prominent on posters for the Star Wars sequel in China, but still present in the film). Very few people are going out of their way to pick the company that exhorts the virtues of homosexuality over the one that just sells a product, and indeed it's usually the absence of a convenient "just sells a product" alternative that prevents people from just not doing business with the progressive company at all out of distaste.
     
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  18. Space Satan Arcane

    Space Satan
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    DD
     
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  19. AgentFransis Arbiter Patron

    AgentFransis
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    And here's the mana :bounce:
     
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  20. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    Well, this sounds just as bad as mana. It's basically the HoI4 "resources".
     
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  21. what am i doing Arcane

    what am i doing
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    Nothing they've described currently indicates that it is mana (ie, a resource which is not a direct representation of an actual thing, due to having multiple uses which each represent different actual things). Sure, it might end up being mana on release, but right now it doesn't appear to be. Additionally, it appears that they've replaced the buffer system from Victoria 2 (where you stored things like influence or diplo points and could end up wasting them if you reached a cap and didn't manually spend them on something) with a functional system (in the programming sense of the word), which is a welcome change.
     
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  22. Axioms Learned

    Axioms
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    We can argue about whether this is the *ideal* system but it is 100% or even 200% better than mana. For one you can't spend it on ideas. The non-accruing aspect is good as well. And is distinct from mana. In Axioms I believe I handled this a lot more with characters and building networks. This is a bit of an abstract meta thing compared to building networks. Like you go from total workers to abstract value without intervening steps, but again much better than mana. I would say this is about even with "prestige" and "piety" although the mechanism is slightly different.

    Like how could you improve this aside from adding the intervening steps? That would make it functionally similar to real life.

    Mana is clearly a level or two of abstraction higher. Ergo this is better.
     
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  23. Kalin Unwanted Dumbfuck Zionist Agent

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    IT'S SHIT
     
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  24. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

    AwesomeButton
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    You've let yourself be fooled by going with Paradox' arbitrary description of "what mana means for the purposes of discussing resources in our games".

    What you are seeing is a resource where decreasing teachers and increasing law enforcement happens from the same resource pool.
     
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  25. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    "Is it mana or isn't it mana" is a pointless debate. Just about every single thing in every Paradox game could be described as mana if we were inclusive enough (e.g. Stability, AE/badboy, Loyalty), as long as it's some unified quantitative count that you use one way or another to get shit done... well of course, because every Pdox game is modifiers bouncing off one another in a gamey, abstract fashioon. That's literally what Pdox games are.

    The real question is whether it gives you realistic/interesting control levers to actually customise your nation, or you're mainly sitting there not able to do anything until an arbitrary money pot fills up. E.g. how bureaucratic / authority capacities interact with each other via laws and other decisions, whether you can move towards / end up with nations where overgrown bureaucracies then have other consequences.

    (Influence seems to be just a reskin of diplomatic capacity in games like Imperator, just a cap on how many diplo contracts you can have that scales with your blobsize. Eh.)
     
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