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The Witcher W3EE - Overhaul mod to TW3 that fixed everything that was wrong with vanilla game.

JDR13

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Is that what you say when you're proven wrong and have no counter argument? Seems kind of petty especially when it concerns a video game, but ok. Not like I'm not being petty in return.

That's pretty funny. Your opinion is not proof of anything. You're just giving your view on it and nothing more. I simply acknowledged that.

You think W3EE is a great mod, and I have no problem with that. I didn't care for it as much myself.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
That's pretty funny. Your opinion is not proof of anything. You're just giving your view on it and nothing more. I simply acknowledged that.
Except in regard to main quest design, I'm not. The quest dialog is specifically scripted to respond to doing things in different orders. Try it. Or don't. idc
 
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What Geralt says is true though. If you were level 100 all you'd have to do is go punch a drunk or open a random barrel to find a level 100 legendary witcher sword, while a level 1 witcher with a level 100 witcher sword can't figure out how to hold the thing.
You're missing the point. Read what you just wrote: your damage would still depend on finding that "legendary Witcher sword" (really at level 100 any sword would do).

But that vs the 35 damage starter sword? No contest.

And I am obviously speaking about sword damage, not damage with fists or magic, though these are mostly based on level and not skill.

Btw, how would everything being based on level be any better? It makes the skills trivial.

Actually, I guess you could say that level really is the only thing that matters, since you are artificially limited in every way by your level. You can't equip weapons or armor based on level, fights are made much more difficult based on level, damage is based on level.

Regardless, broken game is broken and that's my point.

I think you are missing the part where you are quoting a joke that is highlighting how stupid level scaling is.
 

Perkel

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W3EE isn't the only mod out there that tweaks those things. If it's the mod you prefer, cool. I tried it though, and and it felt like an unnecessary slog to me.

It is the only mod that removes completely levels from game.
Just that alone puts it above any other overhaul.
 

Lincolnberry

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Apologies if this has been answered earlier in the thread, but hopefully this is a straightforward question:

Has anyone actually finished a full playthru with the EE mod? Seems like a lot of folks have started it and liked some things about it, but does the mod manage to be good/meaningful through the entire game? I like the idea but not super excited about the concept of banging my head against a wall in White Orchard to git gud only to have the whole game fall apart by the time I reach Kaer Morhen.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
but does the mod manage to be good/meaningful through the entire game?
yes and also yes.

I haven't played the latest version all the way through though.

idea but not super excited about the concept of banging my head against a wall in White Orchard to git gud only to have the whole game fall apart by the time I reach Kaer Morhen.
don't bang your head against the wall. if a fight is too hard, feel free to adjust the difficulty temporarily since it's the beginning.

actually, I highly recommend this if you're having a hard time with the first ghoul fight, since you won't be facing ghouls in those numbers for quite a while.

the important thing in White Orchard is to get the basic combat down and break yourself from over-reliance on dodge as it was the old win button.
 

Lambach

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Been playing Twitcher with this mod and overall, I like it a fair bit. Combat's a lot better when you can't just roll for infinity and are forced to parry, the dumbfuck level system is gone, economy rework is incline (true to form, most of your income will come from completing contracts and quests, rather than scavenging the nearest "?" on the map for the Uber Sword of Buttrape that sells for a gajillion Crowns and the prices of items such as food now make a lot more sense), the Signs seem more useful, even if more costly, than before, though I haven't tested them against certain bosses against which they sucked in vanilla. The crossbow is now quite useful as well, specially against larger beasties - level the Talent that increases the chance for a successful shot to cause bleeding, get Broadhead bolts and you can pretty much just shoot and bleed the fucker to death. Exploding bolts are quite powerful, but also fairly expensive to make, so make sure every shot counts.

Alchemy I have mixed thoughts on - on one hand, the fact that you have to craft each potion/oil/bomb individually and every time rather than just having it auto-refill is awesome. On the other hand, potions and specially Decoctions seem a fair bit less powerful than in vanilla and the Alchemy Talents are relatively shite compared to Combat/Sign Talents (the Mutation branch is p. nice, tho), which means that you don't really need to bother with those unless you absolutely need that extra edge. That was also kinda the case in vanilla, unless you went for an Alchemy-oriented build and play style, but I was hoping this mod would fix it and make Alchemy almost necessary, as it should be according to Witcher lore. Then there's also the fact that there are no special Recipes for more powerful versions of Bombs/Oil/Potions and their quality depends entirely on the quality of ingredients. That kind of kills the thrill of discovering these recipes by exploring and probably makes that Master Alchemist quest in Skellige pointless (haven't done it yet, maybe he was given something else in this mod to compensate for the fact he doesn't sell Superior recipes anymore).

However, the itemization and loot are by far the worst aspect. So bad, in fact, that the mod makes it even worse than vanilla, which is quite an impressive feat. I found a steel sword when I was just starting Velen after White Orchard. I am now done with everything in Velen and Novigrad, still no better steel sword to be found. Relics are largely useless garbage because the bonuses they give are often lesser than the penalties they introduce, which can be quite severe. On top of that, "Rare"-type swords usually have higher base damage, decent bonuses and no motherfucking penalties, which makes me wonder what the fuck is the purpose of Relics and why are they so shit? The only exception is a nice Silver Sword Relic I found, with no significant penalties and very high base damage.

Witcher gear is an absolute joke - since weapons and armor are no longer level-gated, I'm already running around in Mastercrafted Griffin Armor and I feel it's only a marginal, barely noticeable improvement compared to the starting Kaer Morhen armor. At least the ingredients are also very cheap and easy to come by, probably to offset for the armor set's godawfulness. Witcher swords are so laughably bad I have no idea why anyone would bother crafting them, even the Mastercrafted versions, not even for the 5-pieces-set bonus.

tl;dr - Good mod, but stay the fuck away from it if loot and gear progression are a major drawing point in vidya for you.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
tl;dr - Good mod, but stay the fuck away from it if loot and gear progression are a major drawing point in vidya for you.
To me, the handling of loot was a selling point. One of the things I hated the most in vanilla was picking up a new and better piece of gear every 5 minutes. Gear upgrades in a long-form, story-driven rpg should be relatively rare and memorable, not Diablo or cellphone game dopamine hits.

Not sure about the “no better steel sword found” bit. I do seem to remember upgrading my gear several times in the early to mid game during my last play through, but to each his own and maybe the new version of the mod changed some things. I’ll need to do another run through sometime.
 

Lambach

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To me, the handling of loot was a selling point. One of the things I hated the most in vanilla was picking up a new and better piece of gear every 5 minutes. Gear upgrades in a long-form, story-driven rpg should be relatively rare and memorable, not Diablo or cellphone game dopamine hits.

Not sure about the “no better steel sword found” bit. I do seem to remember upgrading my gear several times in the early to mid game during my last play through, but to each his own and maybe the new version of the mod changed some things. I’ll need to do another run through sometime.

I'm going for a Signs-oriented playthrough, and Griffin Armor Set was the go-to one for it in vanilla. It sill is in this mod, I suppose, but it's been nerfed to hell.

Regarding the sword, the one I'm still carrying is a "Rare"-type that has no penalties, gives me +19.1% Vigor regeneration speed and +11% (or was it 13?) Sign Intensity. Haven't found a sword of any type that beats it in these terms, not even the Mastercrafted Griffin sword which has almost identical base damage, but a paltry +2% to Sign Intensity and +8% to Vigor regen. :M

I do have the "Ultimatum" Relic that boosts Igni by +30%, but doles out similar penalties to other Signs, a big no-no in my book (same case with another Relic whose name I can't remember, only with Axii).

The mod author claims you should carry multiple different Relics for different encounters, but given the inventory size limitations and the fact that everything has weight, even money, that's not exactly feasible.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

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The mod author claims you should carry multiple different Relics for different encounters, but given the inventory size limitations and the fact that everything has weight, even money, that's not exactly feasible.
ah you're playing more hardcore than me. I think I turned off the money weight thing. Don’t remember.
 

Lambach

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ah you're playing more hardcore than me. I think I turned off the money weight thing. Don’t remember.

Only turned off the weight of Quest Items, simply because you can't sell or drop them, even after the quest's done.

By the by, do you remember by any chance what's the benefit of doing the Master Alchemist quest in Skellige? Back in vanilla, he was the only one selling Superior recipes, but since the quality is now determined by ingredients rather than recipes, I don't see the point of it, the quest is a major pain in the ass. Please tell me he sells an infinite amount of Pure-quality ingredients.
 

DalekFlay

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W3EE isn't the only mod out there that tweaks those things. If it's the mod you prefer, cool. I tried it though, and and it felt like an unnecessary slog to me.

Haven't tried any of these mods, but I definitely agree with this sentiment. A game like TW3, with all the random combat you have to go through moving around the world and doing errands... last thing I'd want is for every encounter to be demanding. The game is already tediously bloated anyway IMO. Same for survival elements or whatever, last thing I'd want is more busywork and errands in a game like that. A smart approach, IMO, would be to elevate some fights in difficulty and offer greater rewards from them. I definitely remembered a big problem in TW3 being that nothing felt worth doing outside of big quests, because the rewards sucked.
 

d1r

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W3EE isn't the only mod out there that tweaks those things. If it's the mod you prefer, cool. I tried it though, and and it felt like an unnecessary slog to me.

Haven't tried any of these mods, but I definitely agree with this sentiment. A game like TW3, with all the random combat you have to go through moving around the world and doing errands... last thing I'd want is for every encounter to be demanding. The game is already tediously bloated anyway IMO. Same for survival elements or whatever, last thing I'd want is more busywork and errands in a game like that. A smart approach, IMO, would be to elevate some fights in difficulty and offer greater rewards from them. I definitely remembered a big problem in TW3 being that nothing felt worth doing outside of big quests, because the rewards sucked.

Or just drastically reduce the HP bloat of enemies, because there is no reason why enemies like wolves can tank like ten Igni's before they finally die. I wish the mod let us chose HP values on our own to tone down those heavily inflated numbers.
 

Gerrard

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Then there's also the fact that there are no special Recipes for more powerful versions of Bombs/Oil/Potions and their quality depends entirely on the quality of ingredients. That kind of kills the thrill of discovering these recipes by exploring
Having 3 tiers of alchemy items was a fucking awful design decision because the base ones were made completely useless, and you'd find the recipes randomly in some crates in some cave which meant you had to check every container. It was done just to put in more shit for players to collect.
 

cvv

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The more I read about this mod the more it seems to follow Baldrick's approach to solving problems.

Baldrick tried to solve the problem of low ceiling in his mother's house by cutting her head off.
 

Lambach

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The more I read about this mod the more it seems to follow Baldrick's approach to solving problems.

Baldrick tried to solve the problem of low ceiling in his mother's house by cutting her head off.

When it comes to loot, I agree. The mod's solution for having to pick up a new sword/piece of armor every 30 minutes is to just decapitate loot progression altogether and make it almost pointless. If I were to strip Geralt of the armor/weapons acquired after 50 hours of play and revert to starting gear, I'd suffer maybe a 10% decrease in overall combat effectiveness. Godawful design.

All the other stuff, though - I don't see myself going back to vanilla. Maybe I'm still being entertained by the novelty factor, I'll reserve definitive judgement for when I complete the playthrough, but the other changes do improve the game noticeably. This mod didn't do as much for Twitcher 3 as Requiem did for Skyrim (turn a dull piece of sludge into a pretty decent game), but it's fairly close.
 

cvv

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The mod's solution for having to pick up a new sword/piece of armor every 30 minutes is to just decapitate loot progression altogether

We talked about progression ITT way earlier. I didn't play this mod, I went for the Ghost Mode last year and didn't regret. EE peaked my curiosity for trying to eliminate the idiotic gear level gating and mob scaling but the more I read the more I thought EE eliminated not only loot progression but also character and enemy progression altogether, turning W3 into an even more action adventure game than it already was.

If the drowners you meet in White Orchard are exactly the same as the ones in Toussaint then either the former ones are gonna be insanely strong or the latter ones will be a laughable faceroll. Because the only way to avoid this is to prevent Geralt himself from progressing so both the early game AND the endgame drowners present roughly the same challenge.

I think the mod authors bite more than they could chew. The real solution to the same drowners with different level numbers over their heads isn't to remove the numbers, it's to introduce unique, stronger creatures the further in the game you progress. But that's obviously far beyond the capabilites of any modder.
 

Perkel

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If the drowners you meet in White Orchard are exactly the same as the ones in Toussaint then either the former ones are gonna be insanely strong or the latter ones will be a laughable faceroll. Because the only way to avoid this is to prevent Geralt himself from progressing so both the early game AND the endgame drowners present roughly the same challenge.

I think you should give it a run to understand it. Also drowners are not exactly the same. You forget that drowners in some places look a bit different looking much more fierce and other areas have different mobs in them. Same with monster placement as CDPR did indeed place better looking mobs or bigger ones as story progresses which fits right into W3EE lack of levels and other changes.

The point you are not getting though is that you think early game is easy and initial areas are noob friendly.
They are not. The very first witcher contract "devil by the well" is something you probably won't be able to do because you won't have a way to deal with her insane regen. And this is generally how your worries are resolved. Game is not flat anymore in case of character progression, which means that some quest you did before which were easy are now very hard because monster in them is some higher vampire, on other hand quests in which there are only drowners are easier.

The other point you are missing is that combat is no longer easy. You will die plenty of times to drowners because of mistakes even with best gear. The progression in W3EE feels more rewarding because it is combination of your skill and the choices you made with your build rather than just plain numerical +1 to sword because you are 10 levels higher.

Good example of that is in my latest playtrough with that missing wife quest where you meet warewolf. In base game that fight is easy in W3EE is tough as shit next Capra from DS because like capra it has bunch of wolves around him that will fuck you up by themselves and on top of that you have warewolf whic hin 3-4 swings will make mincemeat out of you. The point of the mod here is that you shouldn't take on such challange if you are not ready or you should prepare for fight and this is where progression is rewarded because thanks to progression you understand what works and what doesn't in fight, you have prepared various oils and potions from best ingredients, you invested into skillpoints to give you that edge you need and you made yourself some build finally you take out weapon which is best suited for that task.

W3EE on surace level has less progression but in fact it is completely opposite as it forces you to use more stuff that vanilla or ghost and rewards you with easier fight if you actually prepared and made some progression on your character.


When it comes to loot, I agree. The mod's solution for having to pick up a new sword/piece of armor every 30 minutes is to just decapitate loot progression altogether and make it almost pointless. If I were to strip Geralt of the armor/weapons acquired after 50 hours of play and revert to starting gear, I'd suffer maybe a 10% decrease in overall combat effectiveness. Godawful design.

My question is this: Opposite to what exactly ? Vanilla has horrible scaling system where new random sword is almost always better than your ancient godslayer you were given by god of thunder 30 minutes ago. Other overhauls don't fix that.

Imho loot changes in W3EE is what make this overhault a highlight. Because it takes completely fucked up loot system and gives it sense and purpose. They changed it so much that now even magical swords can have random stats that hit just right that will give you really nice sword so it is worth it just to check if you didn't hit something great. Same with armors, random stats on them have now some sense and you don't need to look only at relic stuff or witcher armor.

The other part of loot system aka the cluter is also completely fixed and again makes sense and by fixing that aspect of loot it also fixed the other broken part of Witcher 3 aka exploration gameplay. Since crafting is also fixed and now makes sense it combines with loot and makes it really worthwile to explore without quests.

Every chest in W3EE is hope for some rare ingredient you can use in crafting, every chest in vanilla or any other overhaul is basically meh because you loot people houses which usually have more important stuff than some chest in some hidden castle.
 
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passerby

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If the drowners you meet in White Orchard are exactly the same as the ones in Toussaint then either the former ones are gonna be insanely strong or the latter ones will be a laughable faceroll. Because the only way to avoid this is to prevent Geralt himself from progressing so both the early game AND the endgame drowners present roughly the same challenge.

I haven't played W3, or this mod, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it's usually with leveled enemies, no matter if they are scaled, or not, where there is no real progression. Your numbers goes 50 times up, their numbers go 50 times up and it's all meaningless in the end.

I think the idea behind this mod is that you'll get like 5 times stronger by the end of the game, not 50 times and in the end game you can have, new stronger enemies, bigger packs and eventually slightly stronger versions of weak enemies.
So you have an actual character progression, when an enemy from the beginning which took 5 hits to down, can be dealt with 2 hits in middle of the game, but still is capable of doing some damage to you, especially in a bigger pack, or mixed with stronger buddies.

For example without leveled enemies when you accumulate let's say 30% damage bonuses, it looks unimpressive on a character sheet, but you can actually kill all wolves in any part of the game in 3 instead of 4 hits.
I've always hated usual exponential growth of stats, exp rewards etc. it makes both character progression meaningless and also exploration meaningless, since whatever xp you'd accumualate from 10 sidequsts in the beginning, is nothing compared to a single quest from the midgame.

So, if W3EE acomplishes what I've described above, I'll opt for it on my first playthrough. Does it satisfy my slightly simulationist taste ?
 

Lambach

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cvv The progression in EE revolves mostly around giving you more different tools to handle a situation, rather than just number bloat. In White Orchard, a group of Drowners is a bloody nightmare because you only have your swords and piss-weak Signs to deal with them. As you progress, you get access to Alternate Signs and additional effects when using them, potions and their more powerful versions, bombs, exploding crossbow bolts, Mutagens, more defensive maneuvers to help avoid/mitigate damage etc. and a good application of those rips the once-problematic Drowners to shreds. However, even though I'm over 50 hours in, that same group can still fuck me up real good if I'm careless and just swing the sword like a drunken chimp.

In vanilla, completionists really get the shaft because they will relatively quickly outlevel all the content the main game has to offer (expansions mitigate the problem somewhat), making it laughably easy and boring even on the highest difficulty. In EE, you are getting noticeably more powerful, but only if you actually bother to use your new abilities and toys and you never feel like an unstoppable juggernaut of destruction. You have to constantly be on your toes, even against weaker enemies.


In base game that fight is easy in W3EE is tough as shit next Capra from DS because like capra it has bunch of wolves around him that will fuck you up by themselves and on top of that you have warewolf whic hin 3-4 swings will make mincemeat out of you.

I did this relatively early into the game by sniping the wolves with a crossbow one by one. Whenever I got hit, I ran away from the cave, ate some food and meditated to heal, returned to snipe another wolf, rinse and repeat until it was only me and the Werewolf left. Cheap shit and clearly an exploit, but I was determined to beat the quest without returning to it later.

Vanilla has horrible scaling system where new random sword is almost always better than your ancient godslayer you were given by god of thunder 30 minutes ago. Other overhauls don't fix that.

That's true, but EE has the opposite problem, where you'll go over 30 hours without finding a better sword, especially if you want it to compliment a certain play style. Like I've mentioned in one of my previous posts, I found a steel sword with pretty decent bonuses that I like almost right after White Orchard in some random chest in some random bandit camp and haven't found a better one yet, including the "legendary" Relic swords, Mastercrafted Witcher gear etc. Hell, I'm almost convinced now I'll be using this sword until the end of the game.

Similar thing with silver swords - found a Relic in some random chest that turned out to be a pretty great Silver Sword ~30 hours ago and neither crafted swords nor quest rewards offered something even remotely as good. I was hoping the sword you get from Crach after you help his kids would be an upgrade, because for a story-driven experience like Twitcher it makes sense to get the best stuff from completing important quests, but no, it was just a useless piece of crap with far too heavy penalties and miserable base damage compared to a random Relic I found on one of the gajillion "?"s scattered across Velen.

Every chest in W3EE is hope for some rare ingredient you can use in crafting

What version of the mod did you play on your last playthrough? It looks like versions we're playing are pretty different or I installed something wrong, because even Mastercrafted Witcher gear requires pretty basic ingredients, 90% of which can be bought from either Hatori or the Master Armorsmith chick and the other 10% (Monster Feather Samples, Monster Scale Samples) you can get from killing run-o-the-mill, common monsters. I haven't seen a single item that requires even a Dimeritium Plate, let alone something rarer and more expensive.
 

cvv

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If the drowners you meet in White Orchard are exactly the same as the ones in Toussaint then either the former ones are gonna be insanely strong or the latter ones will be a laughable faceroll. Because the only way to avoid this is to prevent Geralt himself from progressing so both the early game AND the endgame drowners present roughly the same challenge.

I haven't played W3, or this mod, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it's usually with leveled enemies, no matter if they are scaled, or not, where there is no real progression.

Sure, if you have Oblivion-style level scaling, there's no real progression. But in the vanilla Witcher you feel the progression if you go back to lower level areas. You just burn through mobs.

Btw props to Lambach for clarification, maybe I'll give it a try at some point after all.
 

Perkel

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What version of the mod did you play on your last playthrough? It looks like versions we're playing are pretty different or I installed something wrong, because even Mastercrafted Witcher gear requires pretty basic ingredients, 90% of which can be bought from either Hatori or the Master Armorsmith chick and the other 10% (Monster Feather Samples, Monster Scale Samples) you can get from killing run-o-the-mill, common monsters. I haven't seen a single item that requires even a Dimeritium Plate, let alone something rarer and more expensive.

Well if you find most of relics useless to you then it is no wonder you don't have issue with crafting. I pretty much always have an issue with money and crafting materials because i like to refurbish those relics and create those unique sets of armor to make different builds. Yeah stuff that uses the most expensive materials is rather rare i agree but it still worth something in currency which is really hard to come by in EE.

Just outfitting runemaster in EE is really really really expensive task as those prices were deliberately not changed from vanilla to make it end game goal and proper currency sink much like corvo and those relics.

I also like to play with oils and potions as i never liked magic so i usually always am cash strapped as i spend much of my wealth on ingredients and bases.

I also find it weird that you found out so quickly "best" sword. I have few candidates for decent swords but they all require to build around those swords other than that most of my find are samish with few details of difference. My current favorite is sword that gives 40% reduction in vigor when you use magic i don't want to invest in magic so it is perfect way for me to still use some magic in fight despite not investing in it.
 

Lambach

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Well if you find most of relics useless to you then it is no wonder you don't have issue with crafting. I pretty much always have an issue with money and crafting materials because i like to refurbish those relics and create those unique sets of armor to make different builds. Yeah stuff that uses the most expensive materials is rather rare i agree but it still worth something in currency which is really hard to come by in EE.

I mean, how are they not useless, at least most of them? My experience when looking up the stats for the average Relic:

"Oooh, nice, +100 Fire damage on hit, this will really fuck up those Leshe-"
* -20% Vigor Regen
* -15% Armor Piercing
* -15% Attack Speed
* -if it's a third Thursday of the month and a unicorn has farted between 5AM and 7AM that day, there's a 5% chance to get a damage boost of 10% for 0.2 seconds when you successfully dodge a strike

"Lmao, fuck this shit, selling it for 20 Crowns"

Just outfitting runemaster in EE is really really really expensive task as those prices were deliberately not changed from vanilla to make it end game goal and proper currency sink much like corvo and those relics.

That's supposed to be 6k Crowns in total, right? I'm currently lugging over 8k, though I indeed don't purchase a lot of stuff - crafting sucks and I use potions, oils and bombs only against powerful enemies like Werewolves, Cockatrices, Katakans/Ekimmaras, Cyclops etc. (plus the occasional Northern Wind + Frost Aard against a large group or Veil Oil every time I see anything wraith-looking), so I get by mostly with ingredients looted from monsters.

I also find it weird that you found out so quickly "best" sword. I have few candidates for decent swords but they all require to build around those swords other than that most of my find are samish with few details of difference. My current favorite is sword that gives 40% reduction in vigor when you use magic i don't want to invest in magic so it is perfect way for me to still use some magic in fight despite not investing in it.

For me at least, the bonuses most Relics have do not offset the massive penalties. I'm playing a mostly Signs-oriented build, but I like to keep my options opened and don't like to be actively gimped by equipment if I decide I need a different tactic on the fly. The "best" sword I'm talking about is the "best" simply because it provides a reasonable boost to Vigor Regen and Sign Intensity and its only penalty is a -6% Attack Speed, which is pretty much unnoticeable.
 

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