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Warcraft III: Reforged - now with lowest user metacritic score of all time

Demo.Graph

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,182
Any recommendations of very high quality polished campaigns you guys have?
There's nothing out there that can be compared to WoS.

Come to think of it, even WoS can't be compared to WoS. I've liked the old versions, where Hikaru was Arthas*, Ziel was Medivh* and Kanna was that-elven-almost-hero-chick-but-with-naginata. In later versions all hero models are too animu-looking and differ in style from generic units too much.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,212
Come to think of it, even WoS can't be compared to WoS. I've liked the old versions, where Hikaru was Arthas*, Ziel was Medivh* and Kanna was that-elven-almost-hero-chick-but-with-naginata. In later versions all hero models are too animu-looking and differ in style from generic units too much.

Old Blizzard's ability to make a consistent style of model that all looks so good together is pretty much impossible to replicate by a bunch of disparate modders (and also by new Blizzard). I think its still kind of charming even if they don't all fit perfectly. It's clear that the dev has gotten better over time... with the unfortunate result that some of the important characters having been done first are stuck with lower quality models as a result.

Also the newest version has a LOT of new missions and content that I don't remember before. So that's cool. Although I recall a lot of the characters had 4 or so class options that don't seem to be present now. Removed? I remember some of them were... a bit badly balanced (in the wrong direction, like being stuck with having either no replacement for holy light on Hikaru/Nekurow or a really bad one). Maybe its NG+ limited so that you know what you're getting into?
 

n0denz

Novice
Joined
Apr 3, 2024
Messages
61
Location
Present Day, Present Time
Naval combat is just boring. You spam the strongest ship that is unlocked and you really quickly win because the AI is not that aggressive about building up a navy. A group of 9 ships with a few replacements is all you need. Then in most maps your ships can pretty much pick apart the enemy bases and defenders without much danger so that your landing party easily wins.
As opposed to what? APN micro autism? I miss when RTS's were fun.
 

catfood

AGAIN
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
9,590
Location
Nirvana for mice
Naval combat is just boring. You spam the strongest ship that is unlocked and you really quickly win because the AI is not that aggressive about building up a navy. A group of 9 ships with a few replacements is all you need. Then in most maps your ships can pretty much pick apart the enemy bases and defenders without much danger so that your landing party easily wins.
As opposed to what? APN micro autism? I miss when RTS's were fun.
As opposed to good mission design a la for example Starcraft.
 

MerchantKing

Learned
Joined
Jun 5, 2023
Messages
1,612
The majority of WC2's and its expansion's campaign maps are heavily water-based, requiring a lot of tedious ferrying of troops around and building a fleet beforehand to destroy ships and shipyards.
Lmao what a weakling post.
Far be it from me to agree with Lacrymas but he's right, you know. Ships are a net negative for WC2 no matter how you look at it. Especially frustrating is how ships fit in 6 units, but control groups contain 9. The one time where 69 is not nice.
No. Ships are great. I love sailing the high seas. It's where I get all my games!
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,659
Location
Poland
Naval combat is just boring. You spam the strongest ship that is unlocked and you really quickly win because the AI is not that aggressive about building up a navy. A group of 9 ships with a few replacements is all you need. Then in most maps your ships can pretty much pick apart the enemy bases and defenders without much danger so that your landing party easily wins.
As opposed to what? APN micro autism? I miss when RTS's were fun.
As opposed to good mission design a la for example Starcraft.
I hated Starcraft terran campaigns for being very tvt focused in a game where you have three distinct races as a selling point... plenty of bad missions too. So not so sure about that.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,376
You guys think naval transports in Warcraft 2 are bad? Try transporting units in Starcraft 1, where each unit has its own "weight" (so you can only fit two tanks into a single dropship, for example). Frankly, transporting troops in Warcraft 2 is fairly easy. You get control of the beach with your armada, then disembark under its cover by using 3 or 4 transports. With each transport being able to carry 6 units it is not that hard, especially if you use better quality ones.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,212
You don't need to transport units in Starcraft often. Usually just an airforce can win all maps if its necessary. Only Zerg really lacks a super air unit that can be massed to easily run over everything.

It's not that Warcraft 2 is hard, it's that its tedious and drags out every map. Make 9 ships->win naval war->sit around the coast shooting everything for a few minutes->land 18 knights and you win.
 

Lagi

Augur
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
822
Location
Desert
What RTS has good water combat?
i understand you are not convinced by previous post about warcraft 2.
I think navy in W2 is ok, i enjoy water focused campaing, hunting sub-turtles, extracting oil. I am not a fan of ground combat in W2, but i like the ships.

I could suggest BAR
613619921aac488582a674d8_BAR_screenshot_106.webp

its free total annihilation descendant, have much better controls, and slower gameplay. Graphic is very readable. I can recognise most units from afar. It also very good balanced, every units has some use. And after few games, i focus on resurect bots for example, and it was kind of valid tactics.

It is advertised as hardcore, thousands unit, sperg macro game - but i find it much slow down pace compare to Supreme Commander or TA Escalation. F.ex. early game the production of tanks is slow enough to enjoy micro controling them. Adjust AI skill to your liking, add ally bots to have less resource to manage - you dont have to play on competitive level. I only play single player games.

Looks like dog shit 3d mmo

I dont deny that Total Annihilation Esclation is by the big margin the most charming, and soul-full game of this kind. I just love the esthetics of this game. Lack of zooming. Great maps. And the sound and music is godlike (theme in the main menu).
SHOT0485.png

butt-emoji-2048x1985-wlvvsddm.png
:
- last time it was a good 10 years ago (yes Escalation is so ancient) I have spend ton of time to install custom maps

- default Ai is garbage - super stupid (to the point it stand idle sometimes doing nothing) and cheating on instant unit build on hard difficulty - so I spend days installing custom AI's - different for different matchup (like water AI f.ex.)

- UI is exhausting - really being able to build mex in radious with mouse drag is a relief.

- if you ever play TA ESC on multi you will learn the forbidden knowledge of making endless conga lines to the rally point. You will spend all times optimising and building your economy, instead of controlling this great units.

Shut up dude! Why they have good water play?
Ships,
submarines
hovercrafts
seaplanes
repair and ressurect ships
amphibious units (swimming or traveling on the bottom)
water defense turrets
radar / sonars

... sea planes that drop torpedos to hit the enemy submarines

... in Esclation there was: submarine that was airship carrier. OR carrier that fix you planes.

you can build whole base and economy on water


EDIT:
i installed escalation yesterday - this mod improved significantly from the last time i play it.

there is very handy Q shortcut to build mex

there is binary map zoom out in function with mouse scroll - thats brilliant invention you have nice look of battle, can quickly change view port and can see all map if need to.

they keep the same industrial ambient main menu music track.

i would like to say that the AI improved because i played on 7 islands map, and Ai build base and attack me with ships and hovers, but maybe im tripping here, because i was checking units for hour - could be that cheating AI just build tons of whatever and by accident some of his scouting party find me.

I doubt im gona investigate it any further, as I prefere to chill with Age of Wonders 1.
 
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Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,767
RA1 gets a huge thumbs down for baiting you with leveling commie installations with battleship barrages in the cinematics and the first mission and then you never really do it through the entire campaign.

And TA is the obvious answer, although slow af subs piss me off.
 
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Dr1f7

Scholar
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
1,495

Found the patch notes:

  • undead unit crypt fiends model replaced and renamed to "crypt crabs"
  • human 'peasant' units now have a 10% chance to spawn a female presenting peasant unit, that has 500% improved everything over male variant
  • 'orc' race removed from game
  • all pronouns in cutscenes/quest logs replaced with they/them
  • jaina remodeled, now fat + tits removed
  • arthas x illidan gay love story added to campaign, replaces orc campaign
  • game now requires 200 gb disk space
  • custom maps removed
  • primary game mode is now 'esports mode', a hidden rank based matchmaking 1v1 mode. e-sports tutorials added to the ui to help players learn the hottest meta strategies!
  • weekly battle pass TBA
 

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