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Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Darktide - co-op action from Vermintide devs

Joined
Jan 14, 2018
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50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
It's like they don't even try to disguise it!
This seems to be the #1 motto for the entire release: let's screw the players as hard as we can for as much as we can, and not waste any effort trying to disguise it. Then say we "just forgot" to not be predators, and dial back our excesses bit by bit, remove a FOMO timer here, add a premium currency purchase tier there, until we reach the exact point of equilibrium where public perception is barely good enough that people keep buying the game. And then screw as hard as we can for as much as we can with whatever shitty practices are left, because the players have shown they'll tolerate it.

It would be pathetic if it wasn't so likely to work - but game devs will never go wrong strategizing on the stupidity of consumers. :(
Releasing a steaming load of shit then walking it back with something that would have been originally criticized but is now praised has become an industry standard.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
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Like, look at the sheer audacity of them putting the paid cosmetic shop inbetween your spawn point and the item store. It's like they don't even try to disguise it!
This is how grocery stores are designed. Take note of what you have to pass through to buy some bread, milk, and eggs the next time you go shopping.
If they were designed for convenience, these items would be next to the entrance.

We have reached peak game design: we have reduced gaming to a chore that we'd gladly pay to skip.
 
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And unlike Vermintide 2 you are always seeing other random players in the lobby area, and you can't bring up the mission select screen via hotkey (getting into a game instantly without needing to run around), you instead have to run through the lobby area to activate a panel.

Weird thing is I never got the idea that they were having issues selling cosmetics and content DLC for Vermintide. Half the players were running around with one cosmetic or another and basically everyone was buying all the content DLCs. And its not like you can realistically expect to sell more than 1 full pack of character's cosmetics per character, right? I guess there are whales that would buy literally every cosmetic for every character, but that's only like $100-$150 max, so its not like a game that can be carried by whales spending $200k on shit.
 
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Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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And unlike Vermintide 2 you are always seeing other random players in the lobby area, and you can't bring up the mission select screen via hotkey (getting into a game instantly without needing to run around), you instead have to run through the lobby area to activate a panel.
Reviews don't even mention this because it's so peripheral to the core experience, but it's more of the same insidious shit to make you feel disposable, and like you're missing out if you don't jump into another game. It's fucking infuriating, I can't just play a co-op game with my friends any more. I have to deal with xXx420killlazzmastaszzz420xXx whether I want to or not. Unless of course I choose to simply not play the game. Well I've pretty much made my decision.

Weird thing is I never got the idea that they were having issues selling cosmetics and content DLC for Vermintide.
They weren't. All that stuff seems to sell fine. But if you can make $100 with a few minor tricks, why not use even nastier tricks and make $1000?
 
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Joined
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Codex Year of the Donut
Looks like it got the lowest score from IGN Italy. Here's the review translated via DeepL:
The Warhammer 40k universe is almost an anomaly. It is a setting that is extremely exaggerated in its components, with strong satirical overtones and completely over the top; yet, it is very serious, gloomy (grimdark, to be precise) and above all so extensive and deep in the details of lore and internal history that it is almost impossible to know it in its entirety. In fact, we are talking about a game world so wide that all kinds of stories could be told within it with extremely varied characters as protagonists, and, absurdly enough, it would even be possible to set typically fantasy stories in it (not coincidentally, at one point such a hypothesis had been hinted at).

Thus, one would expect that florals of masterpieces have been drawn from such a setting, and that each game has taken advantage of the wealth of information available to the developers to create something deep and unique each time. Not so. In fact, if I were to think about the history of Warhammer 40k, the really worthy games are not very many, and the ones that can be called masterpieces...I honestly can't think of a single one. Maybe Dawn of War? I'm not 100% sure.

When I approached Darktide, I therefore did so with a mixture of resignation and hope. A cooperative online shooter in the style of the two Vermintide games, set in a hive city against hordes of cultists and assorted monstrosities, might well be interesting on paper, and something, in fact, is well done.
The right tools to destroy the heretic

The representation of the various weapons found in the Warhammer universe, for example, is among the best I have ever seen. Never has a Lasgun, Bolter, or Ogryn equipment been created with such maniacal care for direct use; this allows one to enjoy the devastation these weapons are capable of sowing in utterly satisfying ways. Unlocking a Bolter and watching enemies turn into confetti of blood and red mist is delightful, and, to give a sense of the satisfaction there is in using a Bolter to those perhaps unfamiliar with the setting, I can describe it this way. Imagine a machine gun or rifle, as the case may be, firing projectiles the size of your fist; the fact is that they are not just bullets, but miniature rockets that after penetrating inside the enemy explode. It is like having a rocket launcher machine gun! Pure destructive poetry.

The care with which these weapons are represented is in turn very true to the setting. Each weapon is rightly activated each time it is drawn to appease the spirit within it (more sensible for some, less so for others, but it is still a detail of the setting) and I particularly appreciated some subtleties normally seen only in more realistic "war simulators," such as the fact that the reloading process is "staged."

Basically, if you start reloading the weapon and halfway through the animation you have to stop, perhaps because a monstrosity comes out and you have to draw your sword to defend yourself, when you return to the firearm you resume the animation from the "logical" point at which it was interrupted. If, for example, you draw the empty magazine, insert the new one but then have to draw your sword to take out an enemy, returning to the firearm leaves only the bolt to be unwrapped before you are ready to fire, where a great many other shooters would force a restart from the empty magazine draw animation. It is almost bizarre to see such attention to detail in such a game.

The problem is that, beyond the general fidelity to the setting and the satisfaction of using the weapons, the rest of the game did not particularly impress me. The plot, to begin with, is rather superficial. The player is a prisoner who is freed by chance during an uprising; he is taken on as cannon fodder by the Inquisition and then used for the most dangerous and menial jobs (at least at first) and treated as garbage until, as he slowly levels up and gains "trust," he is considered a more or less respectable agent.

Having chosen one's class from four available, one can play or skip a prologue (best played the first time or two), and then begin accepting assignments in the city of Tertium to counter a demonic infestation that threatens to overwhelm its defenses. The quests themselves are of various types, but with a few exceptions they always involve facing hordes of weak enemies with the occasional stronger-than-normal opponent (or perhaps a boss), then activating some switch or mechanism to finish the assignment before fleeing to the final escape point, often pursued by yet another horde of enemies.
A crime against the emperor

Does that sound exciting? Yes. Perhaps. Maybe it is for the first ten times, not to mention that character and weapon evolution can make it fun a little longer, but in fact all missions are the same. We are not even talking about a Left 4 Dead, where at least the setting is different between levels and there is a feeling of progressing toward something. In Darktide, on the other hand, it seems (and sadly) to be doing the same thing over and over again with slight variations, so much so that at one point I honestly couldn't take it anymore to reactivate water systems, kill corruptions, or take out the enemy captain on duty, who by the way always had the same weapons and always had the same fighting style.

Repetitiveness is, as far as I am concerned, Darktide's greatest crime, which ultimately consists of eternal grinding to unlock better equipment without any real sense of progression within an interesting plot or situation. One does not feel important or as if one is making any real progress; rather, it feels as if one is a prisoner of a static hopeless situation, doomed to fight forever. Which, while a bizarrely faithful approach to the original setting, is also a major flaw for a video game.

The four classes are fairly well characterized. They range from the veteran, who is perhaps the most suitable character for those accustomed to classic shooters, to more exotic characters such as the psionic or the Ogryn. The psionic, of all the classes, is the one that perhaps has the most fascinating and complex mechanics; he can in fact use a number of supernatural powers but in doing so he generates Danger and draws the attention and influences of the Warp upon himself, even to the point of risking exploding (literally) if he is not careful, causing severe damage to anyone around him.

If, on the other hand, one prefers to deal with enemies in a more personal way, one can use the Zealot, focused on inflicting serious damage in close combat, or the aforementioned Ogryn, a very large but mentally retarded abhuman with great physical strength. The balance between the various classes is quite well done; each character seemed to me as powerful as befits a Warhammer game, and clearly each class is designed to fall into more or less precise roles. The psionic is very effective at eliminating elite enemies by blowing their brains out from a distance, while the Ogryn is very good at stopping and managing hordes, and so on.

There is also a fair amount of variety in the elite enemies as well. Between hell hounds, snipers, gunners, and more, you always have to keep your guard pretty high and the strategy for dealing with each of these opponents is always different, unless you are using psionics. There is also a boss similar to the witch from Left 4 Dead that you should try not to disturb, as it has the potential to kill more than one team member. When it is present, it creates some tension but is also a source of frustration when you happen to be on a team with someone who is not paying attention and goes to awaken it.

The main problem with the game is that there is not much else. Sure, leveling up unlocks extra weapons, but personally I felt no real sense of progression, and once I got past twenty hours of play, boredom took over due to the repetitiveness of everything. The presence of a store that sells in-game aesthetic items is then a detail that, as always, turns my nose up at it; the game is not a free-to-play and trying to take more money from players is never going to be something I will view positively, even if it is not purchases that offer in-game advantages (as is the case in other titles).

There are other things that puzzled me. The developers decided not to have pre-set characters as in Vermintide, but to allow the possibility of creating one's own custom character to allow each player to have something unique. Character creation is also relatively in-depth; one can choose the character's origin system (Cadia, always, for me) and some details about one's past, but none of these choices have any real importance and effect on gameplay.

Some choices, perhaps, have a vague influence on what the character says during the mission, but it is far too little. Also, while it is true that the world of Darktide is not renowned for being full of photomodels (and I am perfectly fine with that), I am not sure I appreciate the fact that most of the characters and faces are almost deformed.

More positive judgment on graphics and audio. Tertium's monsters and architecture are depicted with a very good level of detail, and the equipment being used is definitely well done. Kudos also to the soundtrack curated by Jesper Kyd, which is definitely exhilarating at times and manages to make the game come alive more than it otherwise would.

However, the technical aspect of the game is not entirely positive. There are still bugs, such as some items to which players are entitled not being correctly added to the game account, as well as sporadic crashes. These are flaws that will probably be fixed in the future with appropriate updates, but I have to judge what I have in my hands now. Reading that the developers had promised the ability to play alone with bots and then not having that option is another bad thing, but the absence of dedicated servers (which should be added in the future anyway) is also frustrating. Also, some of the crafting features are not currently active, with generic promises that they will be activated "in the future." The store for spending real money is there, though.

Verdict

Darktide is a game that unfortunately wastes the enormous potential of its setting. Shooting hordes of cultists all the same is fun in the short term, but repetitiveness takes over all too quickly, and with it comes boredom, which to use one of the terms so dear to the setting is outright heresy when it comes to a video game. Some people may like the idea of playing the same maps and quests over and over again, but I do not think it is possible to judge something so superficial as this in a positive light. The setting of Warhammer is rich and deep, and that is another reason why a much better result was expected.
 
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It's scary how competent machine translation has become over the years. Certainly much more competent than Fatshark.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
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54654yryrtyt.jpg


I was going for the zealot "heal to 75% from holy revenant thing." No I didn't get it.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
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4,774
I was going for the zealot "heal to 75% from holy revenant thing." No I didn't get it.
I am trying to do Ogryn's coherence thing and it's a pain, with team always scattering and running away from you, because "Gotta go fast!"...
 

Reever

Scholar
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I was surprised by the fact that they had a rotating shop in the first place as I know Fatshark so I doubt they have enough cosmetics ready to justify it.
I was fucking right once again.
1.png


What a joke of a company. Can't even properly rip off their customers because they're too lazy to get some more cosmetics.
 
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Aug 10, 2012
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Vermintide was great but not for anything related to the shitty loot hamster wheel.

The levels themselves were cool and the gameplay was alright, much better with friends. It gets old after awhile but that's okay. This idea that games should last forever through associated hamster wheel grind design is one of the worst things to ever happen to them.
 
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Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
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Messages
6,037
Did someone say Dan Abnett wrote this?

Lol, I'm not the biggest fan of the guy, but there's no story.

Or maybe they'll trickle the story in over the next few years like with all the other content.
 

Reever

Scholar
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Did someone say Dan Abnett wrote this?

Lol, I'm not the biggest fan of the guy, but there's no story.

Or maybe they'll trickle the story in over the next few years like with all the other content.
I think he mostly helped with the world-building. I seriously doubt that he's the one that wrote those awful cutscenes you get every few levels.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
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Oct 7, 2019
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6,037
Did someone say Dan Abnett wrote this?

Lol, I'm not the biggest fan of the guy, but there's no story.

Or maybe they'll trickle the story in over the next few years like with all the other content.
I think he mostly helped with the world-building. I seriously doubt that he's the one that wrote those awful cutscenes you get every few levels.
But I don't know anything about Atoma or Tertium hive other than what a few snippets of dialogue told me.

Instead of that cringy We Are WarriorsTM cutscene, they could've, y'know, told us where we actually were and what's going on.

When the actual story of the game is in a sponsored Youtube video, fucking lol.

 
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HereticGuy

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Sep 11, 2022
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Henry Cavill tweeted about a Warhammer 40K cinematic universe today. He'll be the lead / executive producer... but the show will be on Amazon :cry:

YDU9Sfj.png
 

Harthwain

Magister
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But I don't know anything about Atoma or Tertium hive other than what a few snippets of dialogue told me.

Instead of that cringy We Are WarriorsTM cutscene, they could've, y'know, told us where we actually were and what's going on.
That scene actually tells you:

1) Than inquisitor Grendyl is in charge (although it should've been said directly - "The supreme power of the Holy Inquisition is mine to wield" is not best way to say "I am the inquisitor" for people who are not familiar with the setting).

2) The Hive of Atoma Prime is important and it must be held against Chaos.

The rest is told through dialogue during missions: you're cleaning up water supply, restoring tank-making factories, capturing ammo trains, killing heretical/traitorous officers, etc.

So you're told where you are, what's going on and what's your job. But that's about it.
 

SpaceWizardz

Liturgist
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Sep 28, 2018
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Reviews in the red:
ajgiys6xmada1.jpg

Somewhat of an omen for this to happen the same day the Avengers game announces it's shutdown. I don't believe Fatshark has the internal organization, manpower, or design focus to fix this game over the course of 1-2 years for free or have the goodwill to have a "The Taken King" style ~$30 expansion be warmly received and bring people back.
A bit premature to say IT"S OVER, but prospects are bleak!
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
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Reviews in the red:
ajgiys6xmada1.jpg

Somewhat of an omen for this to happen the same day the Avengers game announces it's shutdown. I don't believe Fatshark has the internal organization, manpower, or design focus to fix this game over the course of 1-2 years for free or have the goodwill to have a "The Taken King" style ~$30 expansion be warmly received and bring people back.
A bit premature to say IT"S OVER, but prospects are bleak!

It's interesting when we have so little faith in gamedevs (even if it's well deserved) when a few, relatively low effort things will save this game.

1. Make multiplayer more user-friendly (free map selects, scoreboard, more party options, etc).

2. Remove randomized store and replace with some kind of tier unlock system

3. Add the parts of item crafting that are missing.

4. Buff all non-veteran classes.


That's it. Four relatively simple things that the playerbase has been screaming for since launch. We know content like more maps and enemies take time. These really don't.

Instead dumbfish did nothing but release a dog mode that everyone hated. Imagine being a live service game and going radio silent in their fucking launch month.

It's hilarious.
 

ADL

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Instead dumbfish did nothing but release a dog mode that everyone hated. Imagine being a live service game and going radio silent in their fucking launch month.
Launching a blatantly unfinished live service game only to abandon it two weeks later for a month long Scandinavian holiday is one of the most baffling things I've ever seen. On top of that, they replaced their community manager and they're training her so any sort of official communication is continuously on hold until "next week".
6ekx6kiip6da1.png
 
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14,241
Swedish devs pushing out shovelware and then going afk for 3 months when their game most needs obvious fucking fixes and balance changes seems to be a reoccurring theme.
 
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There's a lot of speculation that they're actually working on the Xbox port instead of caring about the PC version right now. Xbox version was originally planned to launch at the same time as PC, but there's not even any word of when it's coming out. So they're probably all trying to get that working. Which means PC gets ignored, except the game's in such shit shape that they really can't afford to do that. It's pretty fucked.
 

CthuluIsSpy

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On the internet, writing shit posts.
Instead dumbfish did nothing but release a dog mode that everyone hated. Imagine being a live service game and going radio silent in their fucking launch month.
Launching a blatantly unfinished live service game only to abandon it two weeks later for a month long Scandinavian holiday is one of the most baffling things I've ever seen. On top of that, they replaced their community manager and they're training her so any sort of official communication is continuously on hold until "next week".
6ekx6kiip6da1.png
GAMERS RISE UP
:mob:
 

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