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Incline Warhammer 40,000 Lore Thread

baud

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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Blood Angels are a bunch of hypocrite goobers and that includes their goldenboy darling.

Blood angels fanboi here, what’s all this about them being less then bro tier?
Muh vampirism and blood orgies.

That's nothing new and they really don't enjoy being vampires or having a good risk of losing their shit the older they get. They view their curse as just that, a curse. Something to be ashamed of and which needs to be constantly kept in check.

So how does this make them hypocrites? They don't see themselves as "the shit" and better then anyone else, they hate themselves for their flaws and are their own worst critics when they fuck up. and finally were the OG chapter to give a shit about normal humans way back in 2nd edition, long before Salamanders (that came with 3rd war for armageddon) or Celestial Lions (also armageddon).

some of the blood angels successors (flesh tearers, blood drinkers... seriously what were they thinking when the High Lords named those chapters, it's as if they were setting them to be edgy violent asocials) seem to enjoy the curse a little to much

Wrath of Iron by Chris Wraight said:
They are not my hands.

This fact is forgotten by my brothers – inexplicably, it has always seemed to me. The hands are strong, to be sure, and have created great things for us all, but they are not mine. And that counts for something.

They forget that the silver on my arms comes from a beast that I vanquished. It is the mark of a great evil that I ended, and yet it persists within me. It is alien, artificial; an uneasy corollary to the superlative physical frame given to me by my father.

I would struggle to remove it now. The problem is not one of surgery, for I have no doubt my father’s chirurgeons could remake me entirely if he gave them the command. No, I will not remove the silver from my flesh because I have learned to depend on it.

The fault is with my mind. I rely on the augmentation given to me by my metal gauntlets, so much so that the flesh beneath them is now little more than a memory.

It is a crutch, this silver. A day will come when I will strip it from me, lest I lose the power to master myself forever. Already my Legion’s warriors replace their shield hands with metal in my honour, and so they too are learning to doubt the natural strength of their bodies. They must be weaned off this practice before it becomes a mania for them. Hatred of what is natural, of what is human, is the first and greatest of the corruptions.

So I record it here: when the time comes, I will strip my hands of their unnatural silver. I will instruct my Legion to recant their distrust of the flesh. I will turn them away from the gifts of the machine and bid them relearn the mysteries of flesh, bone and blood.

When my father’s Crusade is over, this shall be my sacred task. When the fighting is done, I shall cure my Legion, and myself. For if fighting is all there is, if we may never pause to reflect on what such devotion to strength is doing to us, then our compulsion will only grow.

Already I see the madness that path leads to, and so I shall excise the silver from my hands. In doing so I shall weaken myself and my sons, but nonetheless it must be done.

The hands are strong, and have created great things, but they are not mine.

Then Istvaan V happened and all Iron Hands have a metal fetish
 

Storyfag

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As for the Big E being a superior being, he's a superior being who in their view betrayed humanity in general (by peddling the Imperial Truth while planning his own apotheosis) and the Astartes in particular (by keeping them in the dark about the Chaos gods and his history with them).

Seeing as how the Chaos Gods label the Emperor Anathema, I don't think he betrayed humanity the way the Traitor Legions see it. And even if he did plan his apotheosis, it was supposed to be brought about through the greatness of Mankind. A good deal for Mankind, if you ask me.

I still hope that GW goes for Perty ascending himself to daemonhood by using the Forge of Souls in which case he wouldn't be a daemon primarch of Chaos Undivided, but rather an unaffiliated warp entity of his own.

I recall some Warhammer Fantasy army book stating that Chaos Undivided is supposed to be a catch-all category including both those who worship the Great Four equally, those who worship Chaos itself, and various unaffiliated warp entities and their servants. So it wouldn't be really wrong to label someone who achieved Daemonhood the way you describe as Undivided.
 

Major_Blackhart

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I think in retconned works getting Chaos Undivided as a Demon Prince is entirely unique. Basically, you need a patron god. Only a few have it undivided now (used to be the norm before) and Perturabo is one of them.
 

dacencora

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Seeing as how the Chaos Gods label the Emperor Anathema, I don't think he betrayed humanity the way the Traitor Legions see it. And even if he did plan his apotheosis, it was supposed to be brought about through the greatness of Mankind. A good deal for Mankind, if you ask me.

I thought that Horus’ rebellion was pretty well developed and very sympathetic. I really enjoyed the first three novels. I’m currently reading Flight of the Eisenstein, and while I like Death Guard and Nurgle most for the minis, I find the DG marines a bit dry. Maybe that’s the point, but I found Lucius and Eidolon to be much more interesting characters, and much better developed. Abaddon and Little Horus were pretty interesting too.

The book that got me hooked was The Wicked and the Damned. I read that before anything else. Commissar Valemar was a pretty interesting protagonist. While reading the HH is a lot of fun, I think that the books that focus on IG are probably more interesting.
 
Vatnik Wumao
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I think in retconned works getting Chaos Undivided as a Demon Prince is entirely unique. Basically, you need a patron god. Only a few have it undivided now (used to be the norm before) and Perturabo is one of them.
In an ideal world, Perturabo would've been the unascended leader of a renegade space marine faction (since clearly he can't be the leader of the CSMs for narrative reasons since he would've actually been competent at it unlike Abaddon, just as he was the only competent general during the HH and decided to leave when every other traitor legion degenerated into Chaos-addled retards). Alas, it wasn't meant to be. So at this point I only hope that they'll go the primarch equivalent to a chaos dreadnought route (which his latest description from one of the short stories released alongside that limited edition of the IW omnibus - see OP of this thread - seems to imply) since that'd fit with his character. Although I dunno how they'd tie that in with his ascension following the Iron Cage incident. Perhaps he used that geneseed not to ascend, but to summon a strong daemon akin to Be'lakor and then to forcefully bind it into his Logos armor. Would suit his character quite well imho. Man that despises Chaos ends up encased into a daemonic armor, being besieged for all eternity by its corrupting influences with no chance of escape (nor would he want to escape anyway since then his soul would keep on dissipating due to what happened in Angel Exterminatus). Hearing of Perty's daemon primarch form kinda reminds me of the IW guys who ended up aged due to fighting the Hrud, just taken to a whole new level tbh.

I thought that Horus’ rebellion was pretty well developed and very sympathetic.
Horus was the broest of bros before that fucker Erebus came along and ruined everything. Sad!
 
Vatnik Wumao
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43sxaorcofx71.jpg
 
Vatnik Wumao
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And a great excerpt of Perturabo telling Nurgle to fuck off (before proceeding to go get daemon primarch Angron and managing to beat him 1on1 despite already suffering the effects of what transpired in Angel Exterminatus):
Slaves to Darkness by John French said:
The ramp beneath the gunship’s chin released with a creak. Flakes of rust and calcified bone fell to the decking. The autoloaders in Perturabo’s armour cycled. Yellow steam swirled in the space beyond. A shape lumbered into view. Volk instinctively raised his weapon as it emerged into the light. Like the gunship, its form was crusted and spiked with coral-like growths. Scabrous boils the size of a fist dotted its torso. Pale fronds darted from tiny holes to lick the air. Beneath the growth, Volk could just identify the lines of Tartaros-pattern Terminator plate. It was the thing’s head that held his eyes, though. It was withered, the flesh sucked out of its features so that the parchment skin hung off its skull. Its mouth was a razor line slashed across the dry creases. It had three eyes, two lidless and yellow with cataracts, the third a blood-red orb set in its forehead. It blinked with its third eye as it looked at the assembled host.

Argonis was the first to speak.

‘Who are you?’

The figure did not look at him but turned its head in the socket of its armour.

‘The storm spoke and we answered,’ it said. Volk had expected a hiss or a dry rattle, but the voice was surprisingly strong.

‘You know who I am?’ said Perturabo.

The thing nodded, its armour creaking as it shifted posture.

‘You are the Lord of Iron. You are the warrior who passed through the Eye’s pupil and saw the truth. You are the breaker and ender of worlds. Yes… We know who you are.’

‘What have you done to our Navigators?’ growled Volk.

‘We…’ said the figure, shifting its gaze but still not looking at Volk, as though it were not seeing the same space or disposition of warriors as everyone else.

‘We have done nothing. The storm brought us here and so here we are.’ It paused, and then its head turned slowly back like a cog rotating in a machine. Its red eye fixed on Perturabo.

A murmur of weapons cycling to the point of firing filled the air. Perturabo shook his head.

‘The storm brought you?’

‘We are of the storm. It is our sire, we are its voice.’

Argonis stepped forwards, a bolt pistol in his hand. He levelled the gun.

‘Your name,’ he growled.

‘I was named Khalek,’ said the figure, holding its gaze on Perturabo. ‘I was called the Chieftain of the Hekora. I was called a Luna Wolf, and am now of the Sons of Horus.’

Argonis was very still.

‘Khalek has not been seen for three years,’ he said. ‘His force was lost in translation to Novageddon.’

‘And now we are found.’

Argonis’ finger tensed on the trigger of his bolt pistol.

Perturabo took a single step forwards, a targeting beam flicking from a shoulder-mounted weapon pod to hold steady on Argonis’ gun hand. Argonis did not fire. Perturabo held the targeting beam still. After a long moment the emissary dropped his aim and stepped back.

‘How were you sent?’ said Perturabo to Khalek.

‘We are the storm, its sevenfold winds are our sire, and we its children. Where it carries us, we go. We are its voice. It took us from the graveyard of ships in its heart, took us and gave us life again, and so we come to speak for it.’

‘The warp…’ breathed Volk. ‘It is… in them.’

‘The storm is within all,’ said Khalek.

‘What did the storm send you to say?’ asked Perturabo.

‘It sent us to make you an offer. There is a throne for you, Lord of Iron,’ said Khalek, and he shivered as he spoke. Volk noticed a flash of red on the paper-dry lips. ‘A throne that weeps with the tears of your enemies. And with the throne, a crown that once on your brow will make the iron of your blood eternal. You are rotting, Lord of Iron. You layer metal on your skin and bind the killing edges closer to you, because they make you feel the strength that is bleeding out of you. You feel this truth. You know it in the fever-tremble of your skin.’

Khalek’s body was moving, his shoulders heaving, as though the muscles inside his armour were writhing even as his voice held steady. ‘The Sixfold Prince has bitten deep and feasted long. The wound festers within your soul. You are dying. Your iron is rust.’

Perturabo did not move, but Volk thought that the shadows deepened in the hollows of his face.

Khalek’s convulsions ceased. His chin was wet with blood.

‘You resist,’ said Khalek. ‘You fight, but that only steals more from you. You seek the Son of Blood, the Dog of Bones snapping in its brass collar. Father Storm sees this – it sees and knows that if you find the Hound of Red Sands, you will die. You are weak, and he is beyond your weakness. He will not yield. He will not obey. He will test your metal, and it will be wanting. The Father sees, the Father knows.’ Khalek took a rasping breath and bowed his head. ‘You can rise, lord. You can be eternal, unbreaking, unbreakable.’

‘Is that the extent of what you have come to say?’ asked Perturabo.

Khalek raised and dipped his head.

‘Yes,’ he said.

‘Good,’ said Perturabo.

The air screamed. Beams of incandescent energy and streams of rounds burned through the space between Perturabo and Khalek. The warrior vanished. Armour plating, flesh and metal tore into shreds and vapour.

Volk’s visor dimmed to dull the blaze of light. Perturabo was a blur, charging forwards through the flames. The rest of the Iron Warriors froze on the point of firing as the primarch passed in front of them.

Khalek’s gunship was trying to rise from the deck. Thrusters coughed dirty jets of flame. Cannon mounts spun, grinding bone and rust flakes from their fittings. The Lord of Iron struck the front of the gunship as it rose from the deck. He had not had a weapon in his hands; the hammer Forgebreaker still rested in the hands of one of the Iron Circle, but it did not matter. Power wreathed the primarch’s fists as the first blow landed.

Armour shattered. Lightning arced out. The gunship dipped, its nose shattered, oil and clotted blood showering to the deck. A broken gun mount twitched in its chin. Perturabo punched into the wound. An explosion thumped into the air. The gunship burst apart. Shreds of corroded armour spun out, rattling off the shields of the Iron Circle as they surged to their master’s side. The cloud of flame rolled upwards, smoke curdling black at its edges. The air reeked of charring meat and melting metal. Perturabo walked from the fire. Soot darkened his armour. Fire glinted from its edges, and for a second it seemed to breathe in the inferno.

‘All ships engage,’ he said, his voice carrying over the fading roar of the explosion. ‘Make ready for warp translation on my command.’

‘The Navigators…’ began Argonis.

‘We will face the storm.’

Volk’s augmetic eye flickered with a sudden cascade of tactical data.

‘Lord, they are launching boarding craft and torpedoes.’ Volk blinked, his eyelid closing over the metal sphere of his right eye. It did not interrupt the flow of command data. ‘There are hundreds of them…’

‘Launch interceptors, all squadrons,’ said Perturabo, halting in his stride, suddenly still. His gaze was hollow. ‘Burn them from the void.’
 

fizzelopeguss

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So i'm plodding along the Uriel Ventris books. They aren't super great but i needed something lightweight to read at night before falling aleep so whatever.

Just finished the one about the Tyranid fleet and i'm in the middle of the part where Uriel gets accused of heresy, which has me thinking.

It seems the author is one of those euphoric folks and it seems he has made it his business to just undermine the setting. He seems to create situations where the protagonist has no choice but to break the Codex of the Astartes in order to achieve victory (until the last one, where he leads the Deathwatch team on the raid to the hive ship for no other reason that he is the protagonist of the story), but the situations in question are so weirdly specific it makes the whole system of belief of the marines seem retarded.

My question is, do the fans of this setting really accept the setting for what it is or are they all like Graham McNeill? I'm guessing the latter, right?

I was kinda of expecting the basis of the Codex to be similar to the probabilistic science of Hari Seldon in the Foundations stories, or something akin to the preconition abilities of Paul in Dune (which also involved a lot of determinstic prediction thinking). Guilliman is supposed to have a preternatural intelligence, so i thought the idea is that he understood things that went beyond what a normal person could understand and that is why the space marines followed his Codex religiously. Literally, as it were.

Instead apparently it's just a foil to make Fedoratards feel smart about not following the rules, which just makes the setting seem banal as shit. Tell me i'm wrong.

Remember, it's a game designed to flog plastic to kids -there's nothing more to it.

The 'Codex' is simply a base set of rules, troop types and equipment so children can paint their plastic toys a different shade of Ultramarine and not get yelled at by the sad bastard who runs the local GamesWorkshop. Any 'lore' surrounding it is as far-fetched and shoehorned as you can get.

I like the setting but come on this is a bit much don't they think? This is like romance novels for nerds at this point.

40k fags are the biggest gaggle of mugs and consoomers going. You can barely read a youtube comments section of a fictional or even historical video these days without some middle aged queer brainfarting 'Hurh, hurh... Knights, Chapters, reminds me of Space Marines, Hurrrh dats clever'
 

Lyric Suite

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I actually never understood how this game works. The armies you can field are based on how much money you are willing to spend on plastics how can there be any balance?
 

Storyfag

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I actually never understood how this game works. The armies you can field are based on how much money you are willing to spend on plastics how can there be any balance?

The most common scenario is both players having the same amount of points to spend on fielding troops. 1500 points for example, with a single marine costing 15-20, while a hero 200-300.

There are also intentionaly imbalanced scenarios, where the player with less points has a specific objective of for example holding out for 4 game turns.
 

ERYFKRAD

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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I actually never understood how this game works. The armies you can field are based on how much money you are willing to spend on plastics how can there be any balance?

The most common scenario is both players having the same amount of points to spend on fielding troops. 1500 points for example, with a single marine costing 15-20, while a hero 200-300.

There are also intentionaly imbalanced scenarios, where the player with less points has a specific objective of for example holding out for 4 game turns.
What is the point cost of a giant hand sweeping the other army off the table, citing Divine Providence? That's free innit?
 

Storyfag

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I actually never understood how this game works. The armies you can field are based on how much money you are willing to spend on plastics how can there be any balance?

The most common scenario is both players having the same amount of points to spend on fielding troops. 1500 points for example, with a single marine costing 15-20, while a hero 200-300.

There are also intentionaly imbalanced scenarios, where the player with less points has a specific objective of for example holding out for 4 game turns.
What is the point cost of a giant hand sweeping the other army off the table, citing Divine Providence? That's free innit?

Hand of Mork is only usable by Ork Wyrdboyz :obviously:
 

ERYFKRAD

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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I actually never understood how this game works. The armies you can field are based on how much money you are willing to spend on plastics how can there be any balance?

The most common scenario is both players having the same amount of points to spend on fielding troops. 1500 points for example, with a single marine costing 15-20, while a hero 200-300.

There are also intentionaly imbalanced scenarios, where the player with less points has a specific objective of for example holding out for 4 game turns.
What is the point cost of a giant hand sweeping the other army off the table, citing Divine Providence? That's free innit?

Hand of Mork is only usable by Ork Wyrdboyz :obviously:
But free?
 

Storyfag

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I actually never understood how this game works. The armies you can field are based on how much money you are willing to spend on plastics how can there be any balance?

The most common scenario is both players having the same amount of points to spend on fielding troops. 1500 points for example, with a single marine costing 15-20, while a hero 200-300.

There are also intentionaly imbalanced scenarios, where the player with less points has a specific objective of for example holding out for 4 game turns.
What is the point cost of a giant hand sweeping the other army off the table, citing Divine Providence? That's free innit?

Hand of Mork is only usable by Ork Wyrdboyz :obviously:
But free?

Well, you need to have the Wyrdboy. And 'is 'ead mustn't explode when 'es usin' tha powa.
 

luj1

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Where do Tyranids come from?

Who created the Tyranids?

Are they affected by the Chaos Gods at all?
 

Lyric Suite

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Are they affected by the Chaos Gods at all?

No, they are not.

Tyranids were created by the Old Ones (allegedly). Or at least one of their experiments eventually became the Tyranids over time (allegedly).

The universe of 40k is purely materialistic and secular. The Chaos Gods are the manifestation of negative psychic energies and are a product of the warp. The Tyranids are not sentient and are mostly just a force of nature and instinct. Point in the fact the Tyranids can actually blot out the immaterium so they are basically anti-warp. I guess a massive non-sentient psychic force just undermines something that is a product of sentient psychic energies?

Blizzard dropped the ball with the Zerg by making them sentient. Tyranids are actually much cooler and scarier.
 

ERYFKRAD

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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I actually never understood how this game works. The armies you can field are based on how much money you are willing to spend on plastics how can there be any balance?

The most common scenario is both players having the same amount of points to spend on fielding troops. 1500 points for example, with a single marine costing 15-20, while a hero 200-300.

There are also intentionaly imbalanced scenarios, where the player with less points has a specific objective of for example holding out for 4 game turns.
What is the point cost of a giant hand sweeping the other army off the table, citing Divine Providence? That's free innit?

Hand of Mork is only usable by Ork Wyrdboyz :obviously:
But free?

Well, you need to have the Wyrdboy. And 'is 'ead mustn't explode when 'es usin' tha powa.
That's a bonus.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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Are they affected by the Chaos Gods at all?

No, they are not.

Tyranids were created by the Old Ones (allegedly). Or at least one of their experiments eventually became the Tyranids over time (allegedly).

The universe of 40k is purely materialistic and secular. The Chaos Gods are the manifestation of negative psychic energies and are a product of the warp. The Tyranids are not sentient and are mostly just a force of nature and instinct. Point in the fact the Tyranids can actually blot out the immaterium so they are basically anti-warp. I guess a massive non-sentient psychic force just undermines something that is a product of sentient psychic energies?

Blizzard dropped the ball with the Zerg by making them sentient. Tyranids are actually much cooler and scarier.


Thanks for the awesome reply

Arent Tyranids connected via hive mind? Wouldnt that make them similar to the Zerg?

Since Tyranids are extragalactic, does that mean the Old Ones also originated outside of the Milky Way?
 

Major_Blackhart

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Are they affected by the Chaos Gods at all?

Tyranids were created by the Old Ones (allegedly). Or at least one of their experiments eventually became the Tyranids over time (allegedly).

I thought the Hive Mind was extragalactic at this point, i.e. the idea behind them is a hungry swarm that hailed from another galaxy entirely. Allegedly, they saw the Milky Way in 30K during the Second Imperium incident with some ancient golden throne prototype tech going haywire. That's how it's retconned anyway. And Sautek the Silent King, of all people, saw them coming during his exile and rushed back to the galaxy to warn everyone.

Apparently, Necrons want the Imperium to beat back Chaos and the nids because they will need warm bodies for their eventual plan to bio-transfer their consciousness back to flesh bodies.
 

Hag

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Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Where do Tyranids come from?

Who created the Tyranids?

Are they affected by the Chaos Gods at all?
According to old 90s fluff the Tyranids come from another galaxy that they have already consumed. They are on an never-ending quest for genetic material to use, and have arrived to 40k galaxy to carry on their feast. Their hivemind is akin an overpowered psyker force (a "shadow" over the warp) that protects the Tyranids from Chaos influence and - as a side effect - hides the Astronomicon and disables human psyker communication.
 

Tyranicon

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Where do Tyranids come from?

Who created the Tyranids?

Are they affected by the Chaos Gods at all?
According to old 90s fluff the Tyranids come from another galaxy that they have already consumed. They are on an never-ending quest for genetic material to use, and have arrived to 40k galaxy to carry on their feast. Their hivemind is akin an overpowered psyker force (a "shadow" over the warp) that protects the Tyranids from Chaos influence and - as a side effect - hides the Astronomicon and disables human psyker communication.

IIRC (4th edition?), there have been some hints that the Tyranids are actually running away from something, although this has since been pretty much ignored/forgotten.
 

dacencora

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Are they affected by the Chaos Gods at all?

Tyranids were created by the Old Ones (allegedly). Or at least one of their experiments eventually became the Tyranids over time (allegedly).

I thought the Hive Mind was extragalactic at this point, i.e. the idea behind them is a hungry swarm that hailed from another galaxy entirely. Allegedly, they saw the Milky Way in 30K during the Second Imperium incident with some ancient golden throne prototype tech going haywire. That's how it's retconned anyway. And Sautek the Silent King, of all people, saw them coming during his exile and rushed back to the galaxy to warn everyone.

Apparently, Necrons want the Imperium to beat back Chaos and the nids because they will need warm bodies for their eventual plan to bio-transfer their consciousness back to flesh bodies.
I wish the space Tomb Kings were as cool as the Fantasy ones. I also wish that GW didn't get rid of the Tomb Kings.
 

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