Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Inhabitants of Khorinis]

Not a fan of the furniture rule?

 

[Stoned Ape]

40k is definitely space fantasy, similarly to Star Wars. I'm pretty sure Dune also fits in there as well due to the Bene Gesserit/Kwisatz Haderach stuff.

Doesn't mean this should play like a typical fantasy RPG, though. The level design should primarily be focused around LOS, fields of fire etc. with secondary focus on choke point control/line of battle, rather than the opposite.

 

[SpaceWizardz]

Genre labels are fairly arbitrary for the most part, anything with starships and laserguns will be considered science-fiction and whether it's "hard" or "soft" is mostly a matter of how writers want to approach it.
Having a galaxy-spanning setting that takes place in the deepest reaches of space only for all the planets to follow this gamey Jungle level, Desert level, Snow level, etc. design is just unimaginative, not really a question of if it's genre appropriate or not.

 

[Peachcurl]

but is it an arr pee gee?

 

[Pink Eye]

but is it an arr pee gee?

i got u covred

 

[Stoned Ape]

Science fiction starts with the idea or what Dario Suvin calls the novum: the new thing. This is a device or premise that is scientifically plausible and which focuses the difference between the reader’s world and the fictional science fiction world. And it’s new, or you’ve found a way of making it new.


H.G. Wells founded modern science fiction with two novums; a time machine and, in The War of the Worlds, a Martian. A novum is not a magic ring, or a wand: these are magical objects and belong in fantasy. A novum belongs to the same hypothetical way of thinking as a scientific experiment.


-Matthew De Abaitua, 2014
https://www.publishingtalk.org/writing/how-to-write-science-fiction/

The above is pretty much the defining criteria which separates science fiction from other forms of speculative writing.

However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Space Fantasy and I do not hold it in lower regard. Whether I enjoy it is down to the execution of the work rather than its genre; there is highly enjoyable space fantasy and utter rubbish, exactly as there is for science fiction.

 

[Häyhä]

I would not class Dune as "space fantasy", because it lacks the fantasy elements in my opinion. There are no aliens (except for the sandworms) and everything is explained in the frame work of science/human evolution. Kwizatch-Haderach, Bene Gesserit etc. are results of thousands of years of human breeding and eugenics plus consumption of mind-altering chemical (Spice) imagined to the point where they have supernatural power compared to our current understanding. It might or might not be considered realistic, but the setting is very much build around scientific concepts compared to Star Wars which has magic (and copied a lot from Dune) and 40k (same thing).

 

[Peachcurl]

space fantasy and scifi are not mutually exclusive

 

[Desiderius]

Science fiction starts with the idea or what Dario Suvin calls the novum: the new thing. This is a device or premise that is scientifically plausible and which focuses the difference between the reader’s world and the fictional science fiction world. And it’s new, or you’ve found a way of making it new.


H.G. Wells founded modern science fiction with two novums; a time machine and, in The War of the Worlds, a Martian. A novum is not a magic ring, or a wand: these are magical objects and belong in fantasy. A novum belongs to the same hypothetical way of thinking as a scientific experiment.


-Matthew De Abaitua, 2014
https://www.publishingtalk.org/writing/how-to-write-science-fiction/

The above is pretty much the defining criteria which separates science fiction from other forms of speculative writing.

However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Space Fantasy and I do not hold it in lower regard. Whether I enjoy it is down to the execution of the work rather than its genre; there is highly enjoyable space fantasy and utter rubbish, exactly as there is for science fiction.

Modern science is a contradiction in terms. The proper aim of science is truth. The Modern elevated the new over the true and ended up with neither, which has inevitably bled into the art (fiction) as well. It's literally de-generate, incapable of the new, and so everything is throwbacks and remakes and sequels.

The major scientific advances of the 20th Century were forged by men formed before the Great (Modernist) War. Like the great cathedrals, truly innovative science is the work of many generations, but the Moderns chose to bite the ankles of the giants rather than stand on their shoulders.

No Gods No Masters = derivate art, bad science.

 

[Humbaba]

Modern science is a contradiction in terms. The proper aim of science is truth. The Modern elevated the new over the true and ended up with neither, which has inevitably bled into the art (fiction) as well. It's literally de-generate, incapable of the new, and so everything is throwbacks and remakes and sequels.

The major scientific advances of the 20th Century were forged by men formed before the Great (Modernist) War. Like the great cathedrals, truly innovative science is the work of many generations, but the Moderns chose to bite the ankles of the giants rather than stand on their shoulders.

No Gods No Masters = derivate art, bad science.

Shut the fuck up and stay on topic for once.

 

[Desiderius]

This is the opposite of Reddit.

Reddit is the end-product of Fyre Festival Modernism.

 

[Parsimonious cook]

More concept art for the rogue origin.

 

[mondblut]

A lot of pretentious sci-fi enjoyers here, who can't even tell sci-fi apart from a fantasy setting.
Dimwitted clowns, go check what sci-fi actually is before spewing your nonsense over this thread.
40K is a fantasy setting. It has things that are scientifically impossible even from a hypothetical angle: Gods fueled by faith, Warp, Magic and etc.

Fantasy is medieval. Take your spaceshit and stuff it.

 

[Serus]

A lot of pretentious sci-fi enjoyers here, who can't even tell sci-fi apart from a fantasy setting.
Dimwitted clowns, go check what sci-fi actually is before spewing your nonsense over this thread.
40K is a fantasy setting. It has things that are scientifically impossible even from a hypothetical angle: Gods fueled by faith, Warp, Magic and etc.

Fantasy is medieval. Take your spaceshit and stuff it.

Actually, following this way of thinking, it's ancient. Heracles, Odysseus, Olympian gods and their "adventures" are the prototypes of fantasy genre. Take your knights, Arthurs, Merlins and paladins and stuff it.


I agree about Dune being SF. Maybe it is a "borderline" case but it certainly isn't anywhere near stuff like Star Wars or WH40k. Those two don't attempt to be scientific in any way or form. Good for them. Dune, even if going too far and maybe failing sometimes - does certainly attempt and wants to be SF. In some ways it is very good SF, in others less so. It's just that biology, alien ecosystems and creating models of hypothetical societies are more of interest to the author rather than say, future technology and its impact on mankind, physics or space exploration.

 

[mondblut]

Fantasy is medieval. Take your spaceshit and stuff it.

Actually, following this way of thinking, it's ancient. Heracles, Odysseus, Olympian gods and their "adventures" are the prototypes of fantasy genre. Take your knights, Arthurs, Merlins and paladins and stuff it.

For the progenitors of fantasy, there was little practical difference between Homer and Beowulf. All these are about guys clad in archaic armor swinging archaic melee weapons in the romanticized distant past or imaginary world reminiscent of said distant past. Point being, if it has anything more advanced than a crossbow, fantasy it is not.

Special fuck off to homosexual people who insist that modern day crap with majik like Harry Potter or VTM are "urban fantasy" or somesuch. No, it is not, fuck you.

 

[Drop Duck]

The proper aim of science is truth.

Which truth? Truth is subjective.

 

[Abu Antar]

It's not truth, the real aim of science is data, and data only.

 

[Sykar]

Data is just the starting point. What science does is collecting data, form a hypothesis from it, conduct experiments to confirm or falsify it, and once it gets substantiated enough it becomes a scientific theory, a model with descriptive and predictive capabilities, like the theory of evolution, gravity, relativity, etc.

 

[Häyhä]

The aim of science is finding "scientific truth" which is build on facts and facts alone.

 

[Parsimonious cook]

The proper aim of science is truth.

Which truth? Truth is subjective.

Nice trolling bro, I suggest you take it to the Ukraine thread - you will get more attention there.

Here is a cute Doge commissar in recognition of your efforts.

 

[Harthwain]

I agree about Dune being SF. Maybe it is a "borderline" case but it certainly isn't anywhere near stuff like Star Wars or WH40k. Those two don't attempt to be scientific in any way or form. Good for them. Dune, even if going too far and maybe failing sometimes - does certainly attempt and wants to be SF. In some ways it is very good SF, in others less so. It's just that biology, alien ecosystems and creating models of hypothetical societies are more of interest to the author rather than say, future technology and its impact on mankind, physics or space exploration.

What I find interesting is how well Dune uses the sci-fi elements without being a hard version of it, while being space fantasy at the same time. Like you said - it's a bit of a borderline case and an excellent example of what writers should aim for if they don't have enough knowledge to do hard sci-fi. Then again, one could argue that some basic level of knowledge and cohesion is required even to pull what Frank Herbert did.

 

[Peachcurl]

I agree about Dune being SF. Maybe it is a "borderline" case but it certainly isn't anywhere near stuff like Star Wars or WH40k. Those two don't attempt to be scientific in any way or form. Good for them. Dune, even if going too far and maybe failing sometimes - does certainly attempt and wants to be SF. In some ways it is very good SF, in others less so. It's just that biology, alien ecosystems and creating models of hypothetical societies are more of interest to the author rather than say, future technology and its impact on mankind, physics or space exploration.

What I find interesting is how well Dune uses the sci-fi elements without being a hard version of it, while being space fantasy at the same time. Like you said - it's a bit of a borderline case and an excellent example of what writers should aim for if they don't have enough knowledge to do hard sci-fi. Then again, one could argue that some basic level of knowledge and cohesion is required even to pull what Frank Herbert did.

It's been a while, but I remember reading that Frank Herbert did quite a lot of detailed research for the books he wrote. Of course, not about sand worms and stuff. But about the factual foundations of the whole settings. Religion, economy, ecology, biology, ...

 

[Parsimonious cook]

An Explorator party member revealed. Fuck yeah!


https://roguetrader.owlcat.games/news/en/5

PASQAL HANEUMANN: IN A CAGE OF DIGITAL VOWS​

---

Rogue Traders may be brave explorers of systems beyond the Imperium, but the privilege of pioneering uncharted space is not theirs alone. On their hunt for the mysteries of the universe, they are accompanied by the enormous fleets of the Explorators, which consist of countless battleships and research vessels steered by the Tech-Priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus. This religious organisation of scientists, engineers, soldiers, and artisans worships the Machine God, also known as the Omnissiah, and keeps the sacred mysteries of technology gifted by Him. Everything in the Imperium, from a common soldier's lasgun to the divine and deadly walking Titans, was crafted by the Adeptus Mechanicus. As they rule over thousands of forge worlds that supply Humanity with the tools to survive in an inhospitable universe, the scarlet-robed Tech-Priests' advance fleets explore the Imperium's outer limits: that is the mission of Explorators, who travel to the depths of the void to reclaim the gifts of the ancients, uncover long-buried secrets, and bring sacred Knowledge back from oblivion.

Pasqal Haneumann, bearer of the lofty title of Magos Explorator, has spent many decades on the march toward planets yet unknown and systems yet unconquered. His memory unit is now a treasury of priceless knowledge, unavailable even to the highest-born of the Imperium's aristocrats. He has been doing his duty to the Omnissiah while tempering his relentless craving for knowledge with discipline and loyalty to the precepts of his faith. And it was there, in the light of alien stars, that he confronted a most terrible enemy: dissent among his fellows, a schism that could shake the Imperium to its foundations. Pasqal stepped away from the Explorators' enterprise for years in order to ponder the dilemma he was facing.

However, a cryptic message from a former mentor made Pasqal abandon his duties and join a Rogue Trader's retinue. He hopes that the protection of such a powerful figure will help him find his venerable teacher and decide just how firm the boundaries of dogma are for a seeker of truth. Some revelations are painful, but Pasqal is prepared to endure anything for his thirst for knowledge. For such is the will of the Omnissiah.

 

[santino27]

I'm guessing reddit already wants to fuck him.

 

[Peachcurl]

You know what we need? An uppity servo-skull companion. Name him Mortimer.