Game News Wasteland 2's Delay: All About Making Choice Matter

[Broseph]

I won't mind it if that ends up being the case - most games don't provide enough incentive for a replay, even if they have branching quests and C&C. It'll be interesting to see how far they take it.

 

[Excidium]

You sure about that?

“We have so many sequences,” added inXile president Matt Findley. “About half the game, most people will never see. We’re not afraid at all to create content that’s off the critical path or can be closed off permanently.”

“On the biggest level,” Fargo continued, “there will be areas that will be completely different. Gone, destroyed. There’s not one just like it to make up for it. It’s just gone.”

Seems pretty clear to me.

Yeah the PR speech is p. clear

 

[Dreaad]

Is there ever such a thing as too much C&C? I mean if there are going to supposedly be entire sections of the game that are going to be locked out via certain choices, requiring a complete replay in order to even see, that's pretty harsh. Retarded, I might even say.

I like the idea of areas changing, being war-torn or what have you depending on if you decided to neglect them or through some other choices, but as I said for the area simply not to exist or not to be able to be visited in any way because of those choices might get frustrating. Absolutely forcing a replay in order to not miss out on large sections of the game just seems wrong to me.

Only so much sugar should be added to any cake. You feel me?

You can always save before the decision can you not? Then play through both choices... Thus not having to replay if you do not wish to. This wouldn't even be a problem if you couldn't quick save, just copy paste the save game file etc. You are complaining about something that is essentially a non issue.

 

[Crispy]

I won't mind it if that ends up being the case - most games don't provide enough incentive for a replay, even if they have branching quests and C&C. It'll be interesting to see how far they take it.

I can see that. Truthfully, if it's as reactive a game as they're promising, it'll be refreshing to see. But I still think certain things can be taken too far. If it becomes SO OBVIOUS that Fargo had this obsession with ruthlessly punishing the player for not robbing the local tavern while the other bandits were already there that you'll NEVER get to see their huge, sprawling base because YOU WEREN'T EVIL ENOUGH then I'm just going to roll my eyes at that.

Not saying that type of extreme scenario's going to happen, but I wonder how mad of a scientist Fargo is turning out to be. Might he need to chill a little?

 

[Crispy]

You can always save before the decision can you not? Then play through both choices... Thus not having to replay if you do not wish to. This wouldn't even be a problem if you couldn't quick save, just copy paste the save game file etc. You are complaining about something that is essentially a non issue.

A new beast: Save Scumming for C&C?

Sure. But I kind of loathe doing that. Call me a LARPer or way too oldschool or whatever, but I still enjoy trying to recreate the feeling of sitting around a table with some bro's and a GM and playing out the scenario the way it plays out -- more along the lines of what C&C implies (or defines) -- the first time, without... cheating?

I know that term is rather stretching it, and your suggestion is a good one, but I'd rather have the option of simply traveling to some of these formerly "locked out" areas after the main quest is completed, just to see what I've missed out on. Will that alone dissuade people (like me) from ever replaying the game? I don't think so. There are far more reasons to replay a good CRPG than just missed-out-on C&C branches, storyline branches, etc. Just experimenting with different character combinations, for example.

Fargo may just be drunk on power lolidunno.

 

[Stabwound]

So what? There is probably like 1-2 areas like that, where it's something like a scripted nuke going off if you side with some extremists or something like that. I don't think having branching paths and that kind of thing is a bad thing at all. I like the idea of being able to replay a game and see totally new things; that's something that's really missing from CRPGs. Too bad for aspie completionists that will have to resort to a walkthrough so they don't miss anything, but oh well.

 

[Crispy]

something like a scripted nuke going off if you side with some extremists

Can we still go back and explore the cratered area anyway, once we've found the ultimate enviro suits and maybe even find an incredibly tough titanium-laced safe in a bombed out building somewhere that still provides a rare weapon but also reminds us poetically about our choice to let the place get nuked?

That would seem to me to be the more elegant solution. It doesn't sound like that's the direction the game's going in. Fargo's saying, clearly, "Do this and you will not be able to go here. Ever."

Why?

 

[Grunker]

I'm saying that's hype.

 

[Elthosian]

something like a scripted nuke going off if you side with some extremists

Can we still go back and explore the cratered area anyway, once we've found the ultimate enviro suits and maybe even find an incredibly tough titanium-laced safe in a bombed out building somewhere that still provides a rare weapon but also reminds us poetically about our choice to let the place get nuked?

That would seem to me to be the more elegant solution. It doesn't sound like that's the direction the game's going in. Fargo's saying, clearly, "Do this and you will not be able to go here. Ever."

Why?

Well, this part makes it sound like they are going to do what you suggest:

“And we show the reactivity,” Keenan said. “If you go to one area, you start to hear radio calls from the other. They’re getting taken over, and if you try to veer back, you see the destruction from that, and they’re in a completely different state. For instance, if you’re too late to a call, maybe robots took it out. If you go there, you’re gonna see carnage. Piles of dead bodies. No robots left to kill because they’ve moved on.”

:D

 

[Dreaad]

So essentially they will cut off areas of the game by killing all NPC's/Quests in that area.

 

[Crispy]

That doesn't sound so bad. At least it's logically sound.

 

[gromit]

One of the more insulting things I've heard of in a game, is nuking Megaton and ending up with Moira ghoul'd out in the rubble. I wonder if that was a "what if they wanted to buy her stuff" thing, or a "what if they haven't wrapped up that quest" thing. I... think it will be healthier, for me, if I don't consider the possibility anyone liked her enough to want to visit for impractical reasons.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

You know that's the reason. Moira is the only NPC in Megaton with a "real" quest, and you bet there are retards out there who would stumble upon Tenpenny Tower, accept the quest to destroy Megaton, and then get frustrated when "Quest Failed: Wasteland Guide" pops up onscreen.

NUUUUUUUUUUUUU NO ONE TOLD ME THAT WOULD HAPPEN, I ONLY SAVE EVERY FIVE HOURS

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Josh's intention was to

Jesus fucking KEEEE-RIST already, does it ever end?!

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Well, for once the "Josh says" thing was relevant.

Is there ever such a thing as too much C&C? I mean if there are going to supposedly be entire sections of the game that are going to be locked out via certain choices, requiring a complete replay in order to even see, that's pretty harsh. Retarded, I might even say.

I like the idea of areas changing, being war-torn or what have you depending on if you decided to neglect them or through some other choices, but as I said for the area simply not to exist or not to be able to be visited in any way because of those choices might get frustrating. Absolutely forcing a replay in order to not miss out on large sections of the game just seems wrong to me.

Only so much sugar should be added to any cake. You feel me?

I don't see the problem, if the complete replay isn't gonna feel repetitive because half the content is new, it doesn't really count as a complete replay.

Also, why is that "harsh"? The game's not gonna go away, you can just play it again if you want to see the rest.

 

[Midair]

Games with branching usually have a single player character. You don't choose between paths just to see different content. You choose a path to define your character, and the resulting content serves the purpose of showing how that character uniquely affects the world. In a party-based game, it seems like you would just be choosing one piece of content over another instead of roleplaying.

 

[undecaf]

Games with branching usually have a single player character. You don't choose between paths just to see different content. You choose a path to define your character, and the resulting content serves the purpose of showing how that character uniquely affects the world. In a party-based game, it seems like you would just be choosing one piece of content over another instead of roleplaying.

I don't know what big difference here is, really. If it's a party based game (where you create the whole party), the role is the party -- that's a different form of roleplaying than with single character, different approach from the player and the narrative, definitely, but the difference is not really that fundamental in the big picture, the way I see it. Both cases offer a base entity for the "role", the character or the party, with which the game then reacts largely in a similiar fashion.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Yeah. Instead of choosing another archetype for the main character, you choose a different party.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Is there ever such a thing as too much C&C?

Only if it's meaningless. IE: Having 150,000 different varieties of Strawberry jam to choose from that - beyond a few superficial differences - don't have much between them.

I mean if there are going to supposedly be entire sections of the game that are going to be locked out via certain choices, requiring a complete replay in order to even see, that's pretty harsh. Retarded, I might even say.

Fallout 1: The Glow and the Brotherhood of Steel. If you didn't get into the Glow, you missed getting into BoS. Made me replay the game again after I'd found out that beam could have a rope put on it. I swear to God I moused over that fucker everywhere the first time and missed it. Mind you, dying from the radiation there because I didn't take the Anti-Rad pills did make me avoid it.

I like the idea of areas changing, being war-torn or what have you depending on if you decided to neglect them or through some other choices, but as I said for the area simply not to exist or not to be able to be visited in any way because of those choices might get frustrating.

Yeah, I think you're over-analysing it. I think he means it more in the sense that yes, there will be a crater there. But a crater is not "the Village of Bupkiss" with quests and people, it's a crater full of dead bodies. The village "no longer exists".

Absolutely forcing a replay in order to not miss out on large sections of the game just seems wrong to me.

Only so much sugar should be added to any cake. You feel me?

No, go fuck yourself.

 

[RK47]

I think it's like Megaton.

 

[Rivmusique]

I mean if there are going to supposedly be entire sections of the game that are going to be locked out via certain choices, requiring a complete replay in order to even see, that's pretty harsh. Retarded, I might even say.

Fallout 1: The Glow and the Brotherhood of Steel. If you didn't get into the Glow, you missed getting into BoS. Made me replay the game again after I'd found out that beam could have a rope put on it. I swear to God I moused over that fucker everywhere the first time and missed it. Mind you, dying from the radiation there because I didn't take the Anti-Rad pills did make me avoid it.

That isn't really the same. You just couldn't do A which is required to get into B, therefore no B for you. The example gives you a task at town A and town B, the one you visit second will likely have lost to its problem, so you can no longer solve it. And it sounds good to me, as long as that isn't the only way it delivers exclusive content, like a constant train of arriving at C, "A needs help, we are north of you!" "B needs help, we are to the south!", make choice, find other area is gone. Other things like warring factions, people who avoid you based on what you have done (the criminals won't ask for help from someone who has been paladin-ing around the wasteland) etc. Also a destroyed town will hopefully lead to more than ruined buildings and corpses in the area. Maybe escapees or pissed off friends in another area?

 

[Spectacle]

The only thing I dislike about content becoming unavailable due to choices and consequences, is that it leads to metagaming when making decisions, especially when replaying. You end up making choices based on what content you want to see and not on what makes sense in-game.

 

[Infinitron]

Wasteland 2's C&C too hardcore for the Codex?

Mission accomplished.

 

[likaq]

If W2 is too hardcore C&C wise for codex, it is hard to imagine amount of butthurt on codex when AoD hits the market.

 

[Rake]

I don't see the problem some people have. If you like the game, chances are you are going to replay it down the road. No one forces you to do it right away. But in six months/one year time that you replay it the fact that it will feel like an entirely new game (even if i doubt it will be so reactive as Fargo says) can only be a positive, right?
And if you don't like the game, it's not as the missing content would be at a whole new level and you don't miss anything.