Wasteland What puts you off the most about Wasteland 3?

[Deleted Member 16721]

But they aren't redundant. They are specialized. That's the point. More skills = more opportunity to specialize and more opportunity for re-playability. For example, Hard Ass/Kiss Ass/Smart Ass allow different roleplaying opportunities and solutions. Some NPCs may not be easily intimidated, but instead have a personality that is easier to charm. Thus that also allows you to build more interesting characters who have varied traits and unique "personalities" built from the skill choices you made.

Sure, it's better for mainstream success to streamline more. Just look at the Elder Scrolls series. Morrowind had 27 skills, I believe, and Skyrim now has 18. Not every skill needs to be game-changing but I'm in the camp that likes more skills and more opportunities to build interesting and unique characters.

 

[Roguey]

They're not interesting and unique though.

My squad were largely clones of each other.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Sure they are interesting and unique. IMO, of course. But being that they are specializations they may not be as "stand out" as other systems.

My squad were nowhere near clones of each other. Since there are more skills there are naturally more ways to specialize and build different characters. Even the preset characters give some ideas as to how you can build unique characters.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I mean sure, you can remove all "redunancy" and have a single "Weapons" skill. Or, a Melee skill and Ranged skill. That might be better balanced, work better for casual gamers and be easier to comprehend. But give me a bunch of weapon skills over that approach any day. Then again I like in Morrowind how you can specialize in Spear, Axe, Long Sword, etc.. rather than just Blunt vs. Blade or what not.

 

[Roguey]

Jagged Alliance 2>Wasteland 2.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I'm sure that's going to be a very popular opinion, to say the least.

 

[Haplo]

But they aren't redundant. They are specialized. That's the point. More skills = more opportunity to specialize and more opportunity for re-playability. For example, Hard Ass/Kiss Ass/Smart Ass allow different roleplaying opportunities and solutions. Some NPCs may not be easily intimidated, but instead have a personality that is easier to charm. Thus that also allows you to build more interesting characters who have varied traits and unique "personalities" built from the skill choices you made.

Perhaps. It the devs bothered to actually differentiate them and their applications. Instead it's just use generic skill A), B) or C) (which ever highest) to achieve the same result. Doesn't help that the skills are severed from natural character predispositions (stats). Attributes are meaningless when it comes to skills.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Skills tied to stats are not really necessary in Wasteland 2 due to the design. The one that is a bit weird is Strength not affecting Brute Force. But for the other skills it's just not really important to tie them to attributes, IMO. I also imagine they had to draw the line here to not make the game overly complex for a modern audience. The game already has a ton of attributes, skills, perks/quirks, etc.., which could already overwhelm people.

I have to play it again to comment further on the other details you mentioned. But my original point still stands that more skills = more ways to specialize your character and build unique characters, and in the end also helps add more personality and replayability for an RPG.

 

[Haplo]

Skills are only a part of the character building mechanics and gameplay systems though. They shouldn't be separated from the rest but integrated. In W2 the integration is bad IMO. Which makes the redundancy issues stick out more.

 

[Chunkyman]

I consider the natural trajectory of any videogame company, unless proven otherwise, to be continuously downwards. Each installment generally isn't as good as the last, the number of features is less, writing quality goes down, etc.

Wasteland 2 wasn't a title I was particularly excited for, but I at least figured that it would be good seeing as how you finally had some guys who didn't have the board of some massive corporation looming over their decisions and could actually make a game that RPG players would like. What we got was a boring, shitty mess that I couldn't bother to finish. Torment hasn't exactly boosted my confidence in them either so I'm pretty much 100% certain that Wasteland 3 is going to be the worst one yet.

 

[Luckmann]

Jagged Alliance 2>Wasteland 2.

This is 100% correct.

However, Jagged Alliance 2 wasn't an RPG and wasn't trying to be.

But they aren't redundant. They are specialized. That's the point. More skills = more opportunity to specialize and more opportunity for re-playability. For example, Hard Ass/Kiss Ass/Smart Ass allow different roleplaying opportunities and solutions. Some NPCs may not be easily intimidated, but instead have a personality that is easier to charm. Thus that also allows you to build more interesting characters who have varied traits and unique "personalities" built from the skill choices you made.

Perhaps. It the devs bothered to actually differentiate them and their applications. Instead it's just use generic skill A), B) or C) (which ever highest) to achieve the same result. Doesn't help that the skills are severed from natural character predispositions (stats). Attributes are meaningless when it comes to skills.

I agree. But InXile doesn't understand the purpose of skills.

 

[Ulfhednar]

After Torment: Rides of NumaHomaMoma, WL3 is hopeless IMHO. Basically talentless hacks led by a charlatan are developing this game. At least they had the good sense to put their delivery date at Q4 2019 and give themselves three years of solid turd-polishing, not that it will help their likely financial woes.

 

[luj1]

Basically talentless hacks led by a charlatan are developing this game.

So true. The situation is no different over at Cucksidian either. Talentless hipsters taking over the industry.

 

[Roguey]

After Torment: Rides of NumaHomaMoma, WL3 is hopeless IMHO. Basically talentless hacks led by a charlatan are developing this game. At least they had the good sense to put their delivery date at Q4 2019 and give themselves three years of solid turd-polishing, not that it will help their likely financial woes.

George Ziets isn't a proven hack yet.

Though he has made it clear he has nothing to do with the gameplay aspects.

 

[Ulfhednar]

After Torment: Rides of NumaHomaMoma, WL3 is hopeless IMHO. Basically talentless hacks led by a charlatan are developing this game. At least they had the good sense to put their delivery date at Q4 2019 and give themselves three years of solid turd-polishing, not that it will help their likely financial woes.

George Ziets isn't a proven hack yet.

Though he has made it clear he has nothing to do with the gameplay aspects.

Point taken...