Why do people hate Oblivion so much?

[JDR13]

Having a gazillion dungeons doesn't make Daggerfall a good dungeon crawler. 99% of them are procedurally generated train wrecks.

Daggerfall does have some strong qualities but the dungeons aren't one of them.

 

[Cael]

At least you're catching on.

But in seriousness, about 70% of what I said is true. Take that as you will.

Yes. You have 30% the brainpower of the average human, which is pretty danged small to begin with.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

Having a gazillion dungeons doesn't make Daggerfall a good dungeon crawler. 99% of them are procedurally generated train wrecks.

Daggerfall does have some strong qualities but the dungeons aren't one of them.

In all honesty, I'm supremely frustrated with the TES modding community for wasting their time on Morrowind -> Skyrim.
I understand the whole modding tools thing is an issue, but the fact that we're 25 years down the road and just now getting a barely functional port to a usable engine sucks. Modded Daggerfall is the game the Codex deserves. It could be anything we want; suit anybody's tastes.
And... and... ah, it looks like it's beginning to rain.

Yes. You have 30% the brainpower of the average human, which is pretty danged small to begin with.

It's alright. I keep most of my processing power on the cloud. Who's ready for CRACKDOWN III!!!! YEAH BABYYYYY! THE FUTURE OF GAMING BABYYY!

 

[Cael]

In all honesty, I'm supremely frustrated with the TES modding community for wasting their time on Morrowind - Skyrim.
I understand the whole modding tools thing is an issue, but the fact that we're 25 years down the road and just now getting a barely functional port to a usable engine sucks. Modded Daggerfall is the game the Codex deserves. It could be anything we want; suit anybody's tastes.
And... and... ah, it looks like it's beginning to rain.

Morrowind is easy to mod. I have done a few myself just for fun.

Hilariously, Morrowind is also an engine that you can do quite a number of things, one of which, I believe was Ultima Lazarus, based on Ultima 5, IIRC.

 

[MWaser]

The dungeons in Daggerfall are okay. The planned-out main quest dungeons, that is. The randomly cobbled together hell can go die in a fire.

But in regards to dungeons in daggerfall, I think they do their intended thing perfectly: make you feel like an asshole that's really lost and crawling through a dungeon made by someone who really didn't want you to get their stuff. Because they're absolute hell to navigate.

 

[glass blackbird]

In all honesty, I'm supremely frustrated with the TES modding community for wasting their time on Morrowind - Skyrim.
I understand the whole modding tools thing is an issue, but the fact that we're 25 years down the road and just now getting a barely functional port to a usable engine sucks. Modded Daggerfall is the game the Codex deserves. It could be anything we want; suit anybody's tastes.
And... and... ah, it looks like it's beginning to rain.

Morrowind is easy to mod. I have done a few myself just for fun.

Hilariously, Morrowind is also an engine that you can do quite a number of things, one of which, I believe was Ultima Lazarus, based on Ultima 5, IIRC.

No. That was dungeon siege

 

[JDR13]

Daggerfall Unity is going to have an option for smaller, less random, procedurally generated dungeons.

 

[Cael]

In all honesty, I'm supremely frustrated with the TES modding community for wasting their time on Morrowind - Skyrim.
I understand the whole modding tools thing is an issue, but the fact that we're 25 years down the road and just now getting a barely functional port to a usable engine sucks. Modded Daggerfall is the game the Codex deserves. It could be anything we want; suit anybody's tastes.
And... and... ah, it looks like it's beginning to rain.

Morrowind is easy to mod. I have done a few myself just for fun.

Hilariously, Morrowind is also an engine that you can do quite a number of things, one of which, I believe was Ultima Lazarus, based on Ultima 5, IIRC.

No. That was dungeon siege

I thought DS did the Ultima 6 port?

 

[Funposter]

Daggerfall Unity is going to have an option for smaller, less random, procedurally generated dungeons.

It already does, although it is in beta and requires an ini edit rather than having a nice big button in the options menu.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

Morrowind is easy to mod. I have done a few myself just for fun.

Hilariously, Morrowind is also an engine that you can do quite a number of things, one of which, I believe was Ultima Lazarus, based on Ultima 5, IIRC.

Which is why BGS doesn't want to update the engine. How else can you add content to well-crafted, but most empty sandboxes if your modding community isn't robust?

But in regards to dungeons in daggerfall, I think they do their intended thing perfectly: make you feel like an asshole that's really lost and crawling through a dungeon made by someone who really didn't want you to get their stuff. Because they're absolute hell to navigate.

Daggerfall Unity is going to have an option for smaller, less random, procedurally generated dungeons.

Daggerfall Unity is going to have an option for smaller, less random, procedurally generated dungeons.

It already does, although it is in beta and requires an ini edit rather than having a nice big button in the options menu.

Something beautiful is in the making here.

 

[Funposter]

Something beautiful is in the making here.

Some mods to edit faction reputation gain in combination with smaller dungeons (so at to not mess up the Faction Rank/Character Level dual progression) might be nice. There's a lot of good stuff going on with DF Unity.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

I'd love to see it become a platform for D&D campaigns. Plop down any kind of campaign you want in the DF world. The space and (basic) mechanics are all there.

 

[glass blackbird]

In all honesty, I'm supremely frustrated with the TES modding community for wasting their time on Morrowind - Skyrim.
I understand the whole modding tools thing is an issue, but the fact that we're 25 years down the road and just now getting a barely functional port to a usable engine sucks. Modded Daggerfall is the game the Codex deserves. It could be anything we want; suit anybody's tastes.
And... and... ah, it looks like it's beginning to rain.

Morrowind is easy to mod. I have done a few myself just for fun.

Hilariously, Morrowind is also an engine that you can do quite a number of things, one of which, I believe was Ultima Lazarus, based on Ultima 5, IIRC.

No. That was dungeon siege

I thought DS did the Ultima 6 port?

yes, both of them were in dungeon siege.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

Incline
- best side quests from a story perspective in the franchise, bar none
- best overall dungeon design in the franchise
- NPCs all had their own schedules, moved around the map, and interacted with each other
- shops aren't perpetually open for business
- decent physics system is in place
- voiced dialogue for something around 1,000 NPCs, and no more wikipedia
- stealth is finally a thing, hand-to-hand is very viable, and magic doesn't break the game as easily
- removal of dumb fucking dice roll combat that never made any sense whatsoever
- map isn't complete trash

Decline
- shitty journal and quest marker blow fat dicks
- despite good on-the-rails stories, an utter lack of C&C
- skill removal
- few factions, and removal of sub-factions within those factions
- no more tying faction rank to skills
- fewer dialogue options
- scales to your level

Nice attempt at defending Oblivion fam, however:
- the better dungeon design is undone by the very existince of quest compass, which makes it infinitely less satisfying to wander around them, as it constantly points you to the end destination on the map
- this voiced dialogue would have been better off not existing, considering the quality of it
- "magic doesn't break the game as easily" is achieved by completely castrating the magic/enchantment system into very streamlined versions, and by removing a lot of the power that those mechanics allowed
- the level scaling in Oblivion is so fucking badly executed above all else that it single-handedly undoes most positive aspects of Oblivion

Skyrim had maybe 4 dungeons total (non-DLC) that weren't completely linear. If they put the Dragonborn in a rail cart and had him jump over chasms like an old Donkey Kong platformer, it would've been more or less the same experience. Skyrim had the prettiest dungeons though.

The prettiness of the dungeons in comparison with Donkey Kong platformers, how fitting.

Because Donkey Kong Country games look great, but are boring as hell to play through.

Good dungeon structural design remains good even with a quest marker. Many dungeons don't have quest markers at all because they don't have related quests. Also in the bigger dungeons that arrow is often irrelevant because they are mazey and trying to reach the arrow in a straight line will make you run into walls.

Voice acting is still better than wikipedia NPCs.

Magic system felt satisfying regardless.

Oblivion would have sucked without level scaling, get over it.

Having a gazillion dungeons doesn't make Daggerfall a good dungeon crawler. 99% of them are procedurally generated train wrecks.

Daggerfall does have some strong qualities but the dungeons aren't one of them.

These trainwreck dungeons are actually the best part of the game, you just need to read a quick guide on how to navigate them efficiently and after that even the biggest ones become simple.

The pre-made dungeons were barely better than the random ones tbh.

 

[Wayward Son]

Fun fact.

Elder Scrolls fucking sucks.

Holy shit this thread summoned Andyman Messiah

 

[anvi]

They aren't even dungeons. They are just short passages with a bunch of draugr in. And then it gets cut and pasted 1000 times which is apparently acceptable to dipshit console tards.

 

[Beastro]

Punch yourself in the face then.

Meanwhile I'll keep delivering the opposite of retardedness for people with brains.

They'd they pick Sebilis as the exmaple?

Why not Guk?

 

[anvi]

Isn't Seb bigger and more complex?

 

[Beastro]

Isn't Seb bigger and more complex?

There's more in Sebilis, but it's more linear given that the lion's share of it is the three forks that people camp on the first level.

Below the only thing complex is the fungus maze on the way to juggs and Trak.

Guk was more complex in the fact it's more like two zones in one requiring different forms of invis or clearing to get to different areas as well as multiple entrances and the connection tunnel linking live and dead side together.

 

[deuxhero]

Skyrim had maybe 4 dungeons total (non-DLC) that weren't completely linear. If they put the Dragonborn in a rail cart and had him jump over chasms like an old Donkey Kong platformer, it would've been more or less the same experience. Skyrim had the prettiest dungeons though.

Very few Morrowind dungeons were non-linear either though. All Oblivion maps that were non-linear were set up as rings. The best any of them got was some side rooms with loot.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

Keeping things to non-DLC...
Morrowind
Virtually all main quest dungeons were non-linear.
Daedric ruins tended to be non-linear.
A handful of scattered tombs, caves, grottos, and Dwemer ruins are non-linear.

But yes, behind Skyrim, it's the weakest in the franchise for dungeon design.

Oblivion
I picked a few at random. Most are multi-zoned, so don't forget to scroll to the bottom of the page to see the whole thing:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Sardavar_Leed
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Miscarcand_(place)
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Fort_Cuptor
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Fort_Wariel
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Nisin_Cave
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Sideways_Cave

Some are ringlike, others not so much. And the ringlike ones still have plenty of little offshoots.
Are these Daggerfall labrynths? No. But they're pretty good dungeons with all kinds of little alcoves and side-rooms to explore and loot.

 

[adddeed]

Guys. I insalled Oblivion. Plus some mods. Im ready.

 

[Circuit the Short]

Guys. I insalled Oblivion. Plus some mods. Im ready.

Oblivion Ultimate Overhaul Experience

 

[Funposter]

Skyrim had maybe 4 dungeons total (non-DLC) that weren't completely linear. If they put the Dragonborn in a rail cart and had him jump over chasms like an old Donkey Kong platformer, it would've been more or less the same experience.

This is nonsense because Mine Cart Madness is far more engaging and difficult than anything in Skyrim. It has shortcuts, optional extras in the form of collectables, pitfalls, and requires precise timing and reflexes.

It also has better music.

 

[ToddMcF2002]

Oblivion had the first great shield bash implementation making combat fun along with sneak and bow work. Given the level scaling I just put all my active skills in minors and ignore level up almost entirely. Certainly slows it down. The worse thing that can happen in Oblivion is to level up or open a chest. Always a profound disappointment in both cases. Play like that and I can enjoy the fun quest designs with a bunch of graphics mods. The game can be real immersive - I love running around in it. Oh yeah never trigger the main quest. EVER