Official RPG Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Why'd party-based Diablo clones never become a thing?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Outmind, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. Outmind Augur

    Outmind
    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    192
    Dungeon Siege 2 is one of my favorite hack & slash games. Party management was its most intriguing aspect - you had four characters + pets to equip, assign skills & spells to, and specialize. You could go fighter / ranger / nature mage / destruction mage, or have the characters specialize in different fields of the same archetype. You could jump from character to character and play as the frontline tank at one moment and switch over to the summoner whenever you got bored...

    Why didn't this type of Diablo clone ever catch on? I don't even know if there are other examples besides DS, at least not ones that rose to any kind of prominence.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 5
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Despair Despair x 1
    • Disgusting! Disgusting! x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. Gregz Arcane

    Gregz
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Messages:
    7,334
    Location:
    The Desert Wasteland
    How could you possibly manage a party in real time?

    I remember the Dungeon Siege games, but I was very unimpressed by the gameplay.

    The closest thing to what you're asking for might be DA:O, where you can script the actions of your party members, but even that is still RTWP.
     
    • hopw roewur ne hopw roewur ne x 1
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. Outmind Augur

    Outmind
    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    192
    You couldn't completely, that's why the AI has to be at least somewhat competent. What you could do in DS2 is assign spells to characters and some of them would be autocast to buff or heal the party, summon monsters, or curse your enemies. All characters also had a unique skill you could fire off if it was ready to affect the battlefield in a way, either by providing additional firepower or introducing mechanics like gravity wells.

    It wasn't the best system ever and could become chaotic at times, but it did work.
     
    ^ Top  
  4. Gregz Arcane

    Gregz
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Messages:
    7,334
    Location:
    The Desert Wasteland
    For some reason this reminds me of the old arcade game Gauntlet. It features up to 4 players, each player had a 'power' they could use which mostly just cleared the screen without damaging the other players. Coordination was almost non-existent. If you take away coordination and strategy there isn't much reason to have a party. That said, I think it would be cool to have a deep custom scripting system to try this. Diablo II had hirelings of different types which made for some interesting build synergies, but here again, friendly fire was disabled. I'm not totally opposed to the idea, but it's impossible for the player to have agency over more than one actor in real time.

    Systems like these also make friendly fire AOE spells almost impossible to include, I've never seen AI that knew how to herd your opponent into an area so you can bomb AOEs.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Whatever shit you posted didn't load Whatever shit you posted didn't load x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. Turuko Learned

    Turuko
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2019
    Messages:
    335
    Location:
    Verbobonc
    Battle.net probably killed them all
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Acknowledge this user's Agenda Acknowledge this user's Agenda x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Chippy Arcane Patron

    Chippy
    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    3,569
    >Insert meme about autists, broken fingers, and repetitive strain injuries from clicking<

    If I could be bothered to do memes or post images.
     
    • Participation Award Participation Award x 1
    • Salute Salute x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. himmy Arcane

    himmy
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,148
    Location:
    New Europe
    Throne of Darkness
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Brofist Brofist x 4
    ^ Top  
  8. Modron Arcane

    Modron
    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,393
    Prince of Qin has hack and slash combat with a full party and is an actual RPG; it also had a sequel in Seal of Evil.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Old Old x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Messages:
    12,310
    Dungeon Siege wasn’t really all that fun. I’m guessing that’s why. Also, I agree with a lot of what Gregz said.

    EDIT: The fact that DS came out during a time when the RTS genre was still popular and it still didn’t catch on should be an indicator of what people thought of it as a game.
     
    • Agree x 5
    • Disagree x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • WTF am I reading x 1
    • retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. darkpatriot Arcane

    darkpatriot
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,418
    I actually think a party based RTS where you explore dungeons could be fun. I think where dungeon siege went wrong is not making it a larger army you roll around with. Something more like Myth but with equipment and stats and stuff. Something with more like 12-24 as the max party size.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. smaug Dumbfuck! Patron Dumbfuck Shitposter

    smaug
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2019
    Messages:
    3,238
    Location:
    Texas
    Insert Title Here
    I can’t imagine trying to manage a party in RT.
     
    ^ Top  
  12. Rahdulan Arcane Patron

    Rahdulan
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    4,500
    Seconding. Great game. Such a shame about the resolution hard lock making it unappealing to players today who may otherwise be willing to give it a try. Not even the GOG release had changed that last time I checked.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Despair Despair x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. Neanderthal Arcane

    Neanderthal
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2015
    Messages:
    3,626
    Location:
    Granbretan
    DS was popular at time as I remember, million plus seller. Fuck knows why.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. Modron Arcane

    Modron
    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,393
    Dungeon Siege also came out at a time when rpgs were becoming increasingly rare, but yeah its success is still a mystery to this very day; however, it did pave the way for two pretty decent ultima total conversions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. InD_ImaginE Arcane Patron

    InD_ImaginE
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,631
    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Prince of Qin is more of RTWP though. IIRC you can pause and switch part members just like RTWP in general.

    What Outmind think off is more off Diablo with party members, something like mercenaries in Diablo 3?
     
    ^ Top  
  16. Modron Arcane

    Modron
    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,393
    A hack and slasher having a pause does not mean it's like IE games round based real time with pause where characters can do x amount of actions per round then sit their fidgeting until another round begins. Sure Prince of Qin has a pause you can issue commands with but it's full real time combat not some weird bastardized combat system. Maybe it's been too long since I played but didn't Throne of Darkness also have a pause where you could issue commands?
     
    • it is a mystery it is a mystery x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    18,640
    Location:
    Ingrija
    diablow audience wants the intense viscerality of manually clicking hordes of enemies to death. having a party do it on their own without the player's input must be very unsatisfying experience.

    i mean, the third part of dung siege was developed by the company most famous for being utterly incompetent at designing combat gameplay. for all the contempt i have for diablow players, that speaks volumes even to them.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. Mr. Magniloquent Arcane Patron

    Mr. Magniloquent
    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    1,298
    Location:
    The Present
    DS1 got old fairly quickly. Party size of 6 was a bit difficult to manage unless you went all mages with summons.

    DS2 was a far superior game, and I enjoyed it. The smaller party size, better enemy composition, better skills, items, well, everything really. By that time MMOs had really taken over though, so single player RPGs were simply yesterdays games.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    ^ Top  
  19. Lonely Vazdru Pimp my Title

    Lonely Vazdru
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    6,496
    Location:
    Agen
    That's actually the reason why I replay DS from time to time. I find it extremely satisfying to equip my party members as best as I can and watch them beat the crap out of everything on their own.

    This video sums DS pretty well IMO :
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 7
    ^ Top  
  20. HarveyBirdman Savant

    HarveyBirdman
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2019
    Messages:
    950
    They did. IE games require no strategy whatsoever. The gameplay is effectively Diablo.
     
    • retadred x 8
    • Brofist x 7
    • Funny x 5
    • hopw roewur ne x 1
    • Edgy x 1
    • FAKE NEWS x 1
    • cuck x 1
    • /facepalm/ x 1
    • Shit x 1
    • :M x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. vota DC Liturgist

    vota DC
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Messages:
    1,725
    Armies of exigo but focused on Heroes?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • it is a mystery it is a mystery x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Tweed Professional Kobold Patron

    Tweed
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    1,303
    Location:
    harsh circumstances
    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Liked the first one, hated the second. Why the hell do people feel the need to constantly click in order to feel like they're accomplishing something?
     
    • it is a mystery it is a mystery x 1
    • popamole popamole x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. Maggot Arcane Patron

    Maggot
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,083
    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    Dungeon Siege was better than Diablo 2.
     
    • retadred retadred x 5
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. Icewater Artisanal Shitposting™ Patron

    Icewater
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,891
    Location:
    Freedomland
    Project: Eternity Wasteland 2
    There's a lot of old Warcraft 3 custom campaigns that were mostly this, and they were a lot of fun because of it. It's a shame that type of gameplay didn't become a craze like DotA did.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    ^ Top  
  25. Maggot Arcane Patron

    Maggot
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,083
    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    I loved doing dungeon crawl maps for WC3 the combat was way better than something like NWN and if the map supported things like summons you could actually control them unlike Diablo 2.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.