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World of Warcraft: Dragon Desperation

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,147
Location
Platypus Planet
Most logical way to expand this to other classes is to revamp enhancement shaman.

It is a bad idea to pull a bait and switch on people, as we saw from the fallout of the Legion survival hunter rework where it went from being about being a magical bowman to fighting in melee with a spear. People play enhancement shaman because they want to be a melee dps who dual wields. Taking that away and making it into a support spec would causes a lot of anger from those people. Better to just create new specs entirely.
They already did a bait and switch with the Enhancement shaman. It used to be an early leveling tank / 2H burst damage hybrid. TBC changed it into the dual wielder and lots of people didn't like it. To this day it is still a frequently asked question to have these options implemented back.

I gave Dragon desperation (sorry forgot the real name and too lazy to check) a try because it was 50% off and I wanted to just level up through retail WoW again to see how things are. Lots of people say this expansion is good but they can't understand why no one is playing. Well, I can say that it's probably due to survivorship bias. Of course the people left playing think it's good, because anyone with taste has moved on. What horrible crap. The new flying gimmick also got old pretty fast though now you can work to unlock the proper flying again which is imo much better for long term enjoyment (i.e able to just numlock movement on and alt+tab out as you fly to your destination).
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Chris Metzen Returns as Full-Time Executive Creative Director of Warcraft Franchise

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/11732-Chris-Metzen-Returns-as-Full-Time-Executive-Creative-Director-of-Warcraft-Franchise

metzen-return.jpg
the leaks are real

they are desperate enough to make vanilla wow 2
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,736
Most logical way to expand this to other classes is to revamp enhancement shaman.

It is a bad idea to pull a bait and switch on people, as we saw from the fallout of the Legion survival hunter rework where it went from being about being a magical bowman to fighting in melee with a spear. People play enhancement shaman because they want to be a melee dps who dual wields. Taking that away and making it into a support spec would causes a lot of anger from those people. Better to just create new specs entirely.
They already did a bait and switch with the Enhancement shaman. It used to be an early leveling tank / 2H burst damage hybrid. TBC changed it into the dual wielder and lots of people didn't like it. To this day it is still a frequently asked question to have these options implemented back.

I gave Dragon desperation (sorry forgot the real name and too lazy to check) a try because it was 50% off and I wanted to just level up through retail WoW again to see how things are. Lots of people say this expansion is good but they can't understand why no one is playing. Well, I can say that it's probably due to survivorship bias. Of course the people left playing think it's good, because anyone with taste has moved on. What horrible crap. The new flying gimmick also got old pretty fast though now you can work to unlock the proper flying again which is imo much better for long term enjoyment (i.e able to just numlock movement on and alt+tab out as you fly to your destination).
Correct. Dual wielding is stupid. Especially for shamans. Remember what they did in Legion when they gave them Doomhammer?

All of the design problems listed are simple enough to solve. And I don't think there has ever been a dungeon that requires three DPS to simultaneously hit different targets with the same amount of damage, lol.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Messages
1,221
tR93jFb.png


10.2 coming in a couple weeks. Rumor is that it's going to be the last patch, since there were layoffs earlier this year and the devs said that content was cut, and 2 out of the 3 Primal Incarnates were written out as villains (Vyranoth becoming friendly and Iridkiron leaving through a portal). It would've been cool if the final fight had been a council encounter against the three Incarnates at once. Earth, fire, and ice.

I'll probably play, beat the raid, get the mythic dungeon mount, and then unsub.
 

frajaq

Erudite
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
2,559
Location
Brazil
holy shit blizz when am I getting playable Nagas?!? its been 16 years

they better be in this expansion
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,736
tR93jFb.png


10.2 coming in a couple weeks. Rumor is that it's going to be the last patch, since there were layoffs earlier this year and the devs said that content was cut, and 2 out of the 3 Primal Incarnates were written out as villains (Vyranoth becoming friendly and Iridkiron leaving through a portal). It would've been cool if the final fight had been a council encounter against the three Incarnates at once. Earth, fire, and ice.

I'll probably play, beat the raid, get the mythic dungeon mount, and then unsub.
Citation needed. It's obviously the last patch, but I think you are confusing 10 layoffs on the Hearthstone team with WoW. Which has more employees than ever before. They bought an entire studio to work on minor patches. They also have another team just for classic.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2022
Messages
425
If this guy thinks DE&I includes any tolerance for "diversity of thought" he's either clinically delusional or too stupid to breathe without regular reminders from his caretaker.
 

Caim

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
17,352
Location
Dutchland
There's also been leaks about what may or may not be a new expansion, about a new continent to the west of Kalimdor.

Blizzcon next week, if they're going to reveal something like this that is the best time.
 

lvl 2 Blue Slime

Educated
Joined
Apr 19, 2023
Messages
243
Location
Australia
WoW has to be the most exhausted setting in fiction. How many "undiscovered" places in Azeroth are there gonna be? They literally had you exploring another planet in TBC but no one knew Pandaria or Dragon Isles existed?
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,736
WoW has to be the most exhausted setting in fiction. How many "undiscovered" places in Azeroth are there gonna be? They literally had you exploring another planet in TBC but no one knew Pandaria or Dragon Isles existed?
Haven't even gone to either moon yet.
 

Dr1f7

Scholar
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
1,491
still don't know how we went from badass shadowlands to disney dragon world over night
it's like panda land all over again
 

Dr1f7

Scholar
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
1,491
badass shadowlands
You must've been playing a different expansion than the rest of us.
NO, shadowlands was cool
visually it was great, most of the dungeons were cool with one being one of my fav wow dungeons, raids were cool
the maw and torghast was like walking into mordor
badass all around except bastion was kinda lame zone but the necropolis dungeon in bastion was great

shadowlands gets hate from the usual two groups of degenerates:
  1. people who play way too much and were butthurt over running out of things to do after a month
  2. people who really care about the story in a game that has a history of writing chuck norris jokes into questlines
bfa was good too, despite getting all sorts of hate. and legion was also good.

dragonlands aesthetically is like a lame filler episode in the style of a disney show
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Messages
1,221
This is probably referencing people who quit because they didn't want to stop working remotely.

That's not the same as layoffs.

I've seen this tactic before. Higherups make demands of their employees knowing that there is a good chance they will refuse and resign. It's an underhanded way to effectively lay people off without having to pay a severance package.


shadowlands was cool

I thought that the sky islands of Bastion with the golden fields and the blue anima tethers floating overhead and the hyperspace flightpaths looked cool. I also liked that the devs experimented with some fantasy weather conditions, like the rain of falling golden feathers in Bastion or the blood rain in Revendreth. The Sylvanas fight at the end of Sanctum Domination where you are chasing her across the chains was cool.

Nw6Qg13.jpg


vi6ljoX.jpg


cDUgKEL.jpg


But the rest of the expansion was not. None of the four Covenants were appealing. Passive blue greek angels, washed down Scourge rehash, blue tumblr fairies, and generic gothic vampires. It is also hard to get invested in these new factions when most of their characters were unlikeable. Only the Venthyr characters were tolerable, but not endearing. The Mawsworn as the enemy faction were also generic. The four Covenant questlines were very long but overall boring or unenjoyable to go through.

Gameplay wise, Shadowlands was very unenjoyable to play. The game revolved around farming anima, which you needed in humongous quantities to buy anything (tens to hundreds of thousands of anima), but the anima came at an abysmal drip rate of 10s or 100s, usually from world quests or rares. Because there was no flying, and Blizzard began designing their environments to be as difficult to navigate as possible after MoP, the process of running from world quest to world quest to farm a drip amount of anima was horrendous. I could only be assed to max out the Kyrian Covenant, no way I would do that grind three more times.

I thought that the soundtrack was forgettable. The only tracks I can recall are Bolvar's theme, and the violin at the Kyrian Hold.


shadowlands gets hate from the usual two groups of degenerates:
people who really care about the story in a game that has a history of writing chuck norris jokes into questlines

WoW did have good storytelling. Off of the top of my head:

  • Death Knight intro (WotLK): you get to play as a legit bad guy working for the dark lord. You get to waltz into people's homes and slaughter them as they scream and beg for their lives. The Battle of Light's Hope Chapel is pretty immersive.
  • Stonetalon Mountains (Cata, Horde). You enlist in Krom'gar's army and begin climbing up the ranks. You quickly become an officer and get to order peons around. Delivers on the experience of being a conqueror.
  • The two part Invasion of Gilneas storyline. Part 1 is the Gilneas starting zone story, and the once you finish that you do part 2 the Silverpine Forest storyline as Horde and see that sameinvasion play out from a different PoV. Another good war story.
  • Wandering Isle: again cast of likeable characters, fun quests, tension in the plot to keep me engaged and fast pacing.
  • Isle of Thunder story was good. Threatening villains, fun quests, likeable cast and fast paced.
  • The WoD levelling experience was overall the best expansion levelling storyline, particularly WoD Shadowmoon Valley and Talador. A tight cast of likeable characters, fun quests, and fast pacing.
And also several other storylines such as the the Jade Forest intro with Lorewalker Cho, the MoP legendary questline with Wrathion, the 5.1 faction war storyline, etc.


bfa was good too

I found BFA to be a major letdown. The prepatch War of Thorns questline and the Battle for Lordaeron scenario were great and got me very excited for more war questlines. Then the expansion launched... and you don't do any warfare. Instead, you're sent to Zandalar/Kul Tiras to run around do chores for the locals. I finished the Drustvar questline and never finished Vol'dun. I found the questing so tedious and unenjoyable that I just queued for Island Expeditions to reach levelcap.

Nazjatar looked cool with the The Ten Commandments-esque wall of water surrounding the map.

I thought that 8.3 was disappointing in that you didn't get to go to the N'zoth zone as was teased in the datamines. Revisiting Pandaria and reuniting with Lorewalker Cho, and getting introduced to a friendly Mogu clan was neat.
 

Dr1f7

Scholar
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
1,491
But the rest of the expansion was not. None of the four Covenants were appealing. Passive blue greek angels, washed down Scourge rehash, blue tumblr fairies, and generic gothic vampires. It is also hard to get invested in these new factions when most of their characters were unlikeable. Only the Venthyr characters were tolerable, but not endearing. The Mawsworn as the enemy faction were also generic. The four Covenant questlines were very long but overall boring or unenjoyable to go through.

Gameplay wise, Shadowlands was very unenjoyable to play. The game revolved around farming anima, which you needed in humongous quantities to buy anything (tens to hundreds of thousands of anima), but the anima came at an abysmal drip rate of 10s or 100s, usually from world quests or rares. Because there was no flying, and Blizzard began designing their environments to be as difficult to navigate as possible after MoP, the process of running from world quest to world quest to farm a drip amount of anima was horrendous. I could only be assed to max out the Kyrian Covenant, no way I would do that grind three more times.

I thought that the soundtrack was forgettable. The only tracks I can recall are Bolvar's theme, and the violin at the Kyrian Hold.


shadowlands gets hate from the usual two groups of degenerates:
people who really care about the story in a game that has a history of writing chuck norris jokes into questlines

WoW did have good storytelling. Off of the top of my head:

  • Death Knight intro (WotLK): you get to play as a legit bad guy working for the dark lord. You get to waltz into people's homes and slaughter them as they scream and beg for their lives. The Battle of Light's Hope Chapel is pretty immersive.
  • Stonetalon Mountains (Cata, Horde). You enlist in Krom'gar's army and begin climbing up the ranks. You quickly become an officer and get to order peons around. Delivers on the experience of being a conqueror.
  • The two part Invasion of Gilneas storyline. Part 1 is the Gilneas starting zone story, and the once you finish that you do part 2 the Silverpine Forest storyline as Horde and see that sameinvasion play out from a different PoV. Another good war story.
  • Wandering Isle: again cast of likeable characters, fun quests, tension in the plot to keep me engaged and fast pacing.
  • Isle of Thunder story was good. Threatening villains, fun quests, likeable cast and fast paced.
  • The WoD levelling experience was overall the best expansion levelling storyline, particularly WoD Shadowmoon Valley and Talador. A tight cast of likeable characters, fun quests, and fast pacing.
And also several other storylines such as the the Jade Forest intro with Lorewalker Cho, the MoP legendary questline with Wrathion, the 5.1 faction war storyline, etc.


bfa was good too

I found BFA to be a major letdown. The prepatch War of Thorns questline and the Battle for Lordaeron scenario were great and got me very excited for more war questlines. Then the expansion launched... and you don't do any warfare. Instead, you're sent to Zandalar/Kul Tiras to run around do chores for the locals. I finished the Drustvar questline and never finished Vol'dun. I found the questing so tedious and unenjoyable that I just queued for Island Expeditions to reach levelcap.

Nazjatar looked cool with the The Ten Commandments-esque wall of water surrounding the map.

I thought that 8.3 was disappointing in that you didn't get to go to the N'zoth zone as was teased in the datamines. Revisiting Pandaria and reuniting with Lorewalker Cho, and getting introduced to a friendly Mogu clan was neat.

idk you seem to think about the game much more than i do. which is fine but we're just going to disagree on a lot

my experience with the game is literally logging in and run a couple random dungeons or a raid finder or run around collecting pets.. never read any of the quest dialogue, not bothered by keeping up with progression or whatever thousand currencies the game has, I just ignore all that crap. the only time i engage with any of the 'systems' is if it's something i actually find fun. then whenever i'm bored i unsub for 6 months. i will say and have said though that the systems have gotten better and better every xpac since legion

anyway shadowlands had good vibes, bfa had good vibes, legion had good vibes. dragonflight is OK and still playable but i get pandaland disney filler expansion vibes from it
 

Reever

Scholar
Patron
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
582
WoW has to be the most exhausted setting in fiction. How many "undiscovered" places in Azeroth are there gonna be? They literally had you exploring another planet in TBC but no one knew Pandaria or Dragon Isles existed?
Which is weird because you have a lot of discovered locations from earlier lore that either Blizzard forgot or is never going to add because it doesn't fit the grand scale needed for new content.
And on a somewhat related note I've seen so many people praise Dragonflight's story for being more low stakes yet the whole expansion is based around dragons, time-travel, titans and so on. That is not low-stake for me. Than again, at the start of Shadowlands I've also seen people praise that for "going back to WoW's roots"
 

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