X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

[Grunker]

meh, not an expansion announcement

 

[Alienman]

Rather they just made a new game...

 

[Mazisky]

meh, not an expansion announcement

I'm sad too, but i still hope and believe they will announce some official expansion soon, maybe along with LW2 details

 

[Jaedar]

meh, not an expansion announcement

LW2 > expansion.

I'd prefer both though.

Of course, I am incredibly sceptical of a dev-backed hardcore mod. No details at all is also pretty sad.

However, this fits my theory of an announcement of expack this month (or early feb). I suspect this is just a pre announcement to remind people of xcom2 existing.

 

[ArchAngel]

Actually LW2 is probably better news than expansion :D
Xcom 2 without LW mods is stupid game.

 

[Grunker]

Not really into Long War, and I find content to be the most important part of Nu-Xcom, so I'm hoping for an expansion. Also one of the few games left I play that has hopes of actual main game expansions rather than just standalone DLC crap

 

[oldmanpaco]

I liked almost everything about LW except the unwinnable terror missions. I didn't mind losing a bunch of civilians or even all of them in a mission but regularly losing 2/3 of them after my 1st turn was irritating.

 

[Perkel]

LW2 fuck yes !

I am officially scared for my free time.

 

[Zombra]

I really hope they make it modular. Long War had some great ideas but the whole package was ultimately unplayable.

 

[Mazisky]

However, this fits my theory of an announcement of expack this month (or early feb). I suspect this is just a pre announcement to remind people of xcom2 existing.

If you're right i'll be so happy that i'll gift the xpack to you.


Also, LW2 + EXPANSION means at least double content and variety than Vanilla, for an overall huge game, plus you have to consider that only an official expansion can bring heavy assets content like new maps or environments

 

[Jaedar]

If you're right i'll be so happy that i'll gift the xpack to you.

I liked almost everything about LW except the unwinnable terror missions. I didn't mind losing a bunch of civilians or even all of them in a mission but regularly losing 2/3 of them after my 1st turn was irritating.

Unwinnable terror missions is very true to the spirit of xcom. You can play them, and if you do well you only lose a little. Also unless I'm mistaken all unrevealed pods together still only kill a total of one civ per turn (revealed enemies like shooting them though). It's not much different from vanilla except that you gain panic for each lost civ rather than lose panic for each saved civ (ie you always lose panic during terror attacks...).

The only thing I'd want changed in Long War is the long. A "standard" campaign taking 100 hours to finish (if you're efficient, don't lose after 50, save resources, etc) *is* insane. The *short* mode included in LW (ie 50 hours... give or take) is a bit poorly made so the balance gets all screwy.

Not really into Long War, and I find content to be the most important part of Nu-Xcom, so I'm hoping for an expansion. Also one of the few games left I play that has hopes of actual main game expansions rather than just standalone DLC crap

Enemy within added one soldier type, 3-5 enemies and gene mods. Long War quadrupled the amount of soldier types (although there is a big overlap between mech and human versions of the same class), increased interclass specialization, created a system for randomized enemy skills (and more, weapons, items).

Granted they were 'just' building on what was in EW, but long war adds a fuckton more content to EW than EW does to EU.

I really hope they make it modular. Long War had some great ideas but the whole package was ultimately unplayable.

I really truly hope not. The problem with the current mod selection of xcom2 is that you have to take care of any overarcing balance issues yourself, by editing a bunch of numbers in different mods (or trying to combine ones that raise difficulity and ones that lower it and hope it turns out ok in the end). I want a single package where things are integrated and balanced.

Also, LW2 + EXPANSION means at least double content and variety than Vanilla, for an overall huge game, plus you have to consider that only an official expansion can bring heavy assets content like new maps or environments

Pretty sure making new tiles to slot into the random map generation is doable for modders. Entirely new tilesets is a daunting task though.

 

[Zombra]

I want a single package where things are integrated and balanced.

That would be great of course ... but the original LW absolutely did not deliver on that. It was a single package with a bunch of radical ideas baked together but badly balanced. Modding the mod was already necessary to make it work, and they made it impossible to isolate problematic elements. The devs said right out at one point that LW wasn't intended to be played to the end as is because their systems couldn't be balanced to work over that long a campaign. citation needed

If Firaxis gave them the resources to properly and professionally QA and balance test this time, LW2 might work OK as one big expansion/overhaul, maybe. Frankly I trust myself much more than I trust them to put together a package I'll enjoy.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Also unless I'm mistaken all unrevealed pods together still only kill a total of one civ per turn (revealed enemies like shooting them though).

Towards the end they were killing 12-18 civilians on their first turn all over the map. Didn't matter if I saw them or not. Multiple times all civilians would be dead after the 2nd turn. Didn't even have enough AP to get into view of the civilians before they were all dead let alone mount some sort of rescue. Really no point to them except to ramp up the terror levels.

 

[Jaedar]

I want a single package where things are integrated and balanced.

It was a single package with a bunch of radical ideas baked together but badly balanced.

I don't think balance was necessarily the first goal but one among many. LW1 pursued a sort of brutal verisimilitude (inasmuch as a boardgame like game could be) that made it closer in spirit to the OG. There's nothing like being challenged by a landed supply ship in the first month and you have nothing but squaddies, and you could play that mission for three hours and have it go completely fubar at the bridge.

Long War has several inclusions (such as your example above) that are very much in the spirit of the original and some stuff (like alien resources, research and mission planning thereof) I daresay surpasses the original.

It's a shame they couldn't fix the pod mechanics (and various lingering line of sight issues and other bugs), and that they had to make the whole thing take so much bloody time.

 

[Perkel]

Whole point of LW is to try to fuck you up. You are fighting lost war and you will fail multiple times before you even finish LW.

LW also isn't badly balanced. Due to how little actual HP everyone has no amount of enemies can outweigh your tactical ability.

I remember my best mission from LW. I spend 2 hours trying to figure out way out of mess i got myself into. Half of squad gone and waaay to many veterans on stake to continue. So for 2 hours almost i tried to evacuate people who still lived.

In the end i lost that mission but i won at the same time. Loosing those veterans would means losing game. Vanilla game can't give you any things like that.

 

[Jaedar]

It's a shame they couldn't fix the pod mechanics (and various lingering line of sight issues and other bugs), and that they had to make the whole thing take so much bloody time.

The most interesting "fix" to the fundamental problem of pods I've seen so far is Beagle's upcoming mod campaign. Basically, he's trying to push X2 much more like the OG, making individual soldiers more disposable, and vastly increasing enemy numbers and reinforcement as well, so the gamey mechanic of "avoid activating new pods" becomes irrelevant, it's really the least of your worries.

So he'd fix it by making more enemies spawn activated? Has he poasted any details anywhere or just idle speculation while streaming other stuff?

 

[Zombra]

I don't think balance was necessarily the first goal but one among many. LW1 pursued a sort of brutal verisimilitude (inasmuch as a boardgame like game could be) that made it closer in spirit to the OG. There's nothing like being challenged by a landed supply ship in the first month and you have nothing but squaddies, and you could play that mission for three hours and have it go completely fubar at the bridge.

Oh, I agree, and I didn't mean to imply that LW Studios failed their mission. If it had been their intent to make a good, balanced game, then they failed at that - but that wasn't the intent. They wanted to amp things out to be harsh and unfair, basically much harder core and not for everyone, and they succeeded at that.

Me, I want a good, balanced game. One that uses the stuff from LW I liked and not the stuff I didn't. I just found an independent mod to add a fatigue system, which was my favorite part of LW, so I'm using that. It would be neat if LW2 offered piecemeal mods like this for people like me, as I'm sure there will be a lot of good ideas. But the super hard core masochism game just isn't my style so if they force it all in one, I'll have to give it a "meh".

 

[Zeriel]

Rather they just made a new game...

From a business perspective it's a no-brainer. They have a good relationship with Firaxis, they are being paid to mod. A kickstarter and indie development of an entirely new game has a very high chance of failure--even if that is their long term plan, building up a warchest of funds and experience by working for Firaxis is probably a much more appealing route than betting everything on a Kickstarter that might fail.

 

[Grunker]

Long War quadrupled the amount of soldier types (although there is a big overlap between mech and human versions of the same class), increased interclass specialization, created a system for randomized enemy skills (and more, weapons, items).

I am, of course, playing with the Long War perk mod, toolbox (for Not Created Equally) and so on.

You seemed to miss my point about content though. The most important part of EW was more mission types, enemies and so on, because that's what strengthens Nu-Xcom the most. I LOVE the perk pack for this reason, but more diversity in the form of an official expansion would be welcome. Especially now that maps are random. The map pack mods are also great.

 

[mastroego]

I don't think balance was necessarily the first goal but one among many. LW1 pursued a sort of brutal verisimilitude (inasmuch as a boardgame like game could be) that made it closer in spirit to the OG. There's nothing like being challenged by a landed supply ship in the first month and you have nothing but squaddies, and you could play that mission for three hours and have it go completely fubar at the bridge.

Oh, I agree, and I didn't mean to imply that LW Studios failed their mission. If it had been their intent to make a good, balanced game, then they failed at that - but that wasn't the intent. They wanted to amp things out to be harsh and unfair, basically much harder core and not for everyone, and they succeeded at that.

Me, I want a good, balanced game. One that uses the stuff from LW I liked and not the stuff I didn't. I just found an independent mod to add a fatigue system, which was my favorite part of LW, so I'm using that. It would be neat if LW2 offered piecemeal mods like this for people like me, as I'm sure there will be a lot of good ideas. But the super hard core masochism game just isn't my style so if they force it all in one, I'll have to give it a "meh".

Perhaps you know it, but in the latest releases they added an optional .ini file that overwrites the standard difficulty settings.
Basically, instead of 4 difficulties, there are now 8. Since I started recently with this mod and didn't want too hard a challenge, I'm using it and having fun (though I'm on pause right now after like 200+ hours clocked).

Damn though, I should've bought xcom2 on sale. Well, next one I guess, I still have to finish LW ONCE, after all....

 

[Cyberarmy]

Damn though, I should've bought xcom2 on sale.

You can find it cheap at kinguin.

 

[mastroego]

Thanks, I actually bought XCom 1 at full price as I read great things about Long War and couldn't wait for a sale...
I'll see, LW2 isn't out yet, perhaps the next sale will arrive earlier I prefer to buy on Steam if possible.

 

[Galdred]

It's a shame they couldn't fix the pod mechanics (and various lingering line of sight issues and other bugs), and that they had to make the whole thing take so much bloody time.

The most interesting "fix" to the fundamental problem of pods I've seen so far is Beagle's upcoming mod campaign. Basically, he's trying to push X2 much more like the OG, making individual soldiers more disposable, and vastly increasing enemy numbers and reinforcement as well, so the gamey mechanic of "avoid activating new pods" becomes irrelevant, it's really the least of your worries.

The "all pod active" mod was quite interesting also. Alien Tactical Awareness seems similar, but I haven't tested this one.
APA activates all pods on the turn after you trigger the first, so it makes pod management irrelevant. The problem is that they start beelining to your position which does not make much sense on some missions, and might be a bit hard to handle in missions with lots of Aliens.
It should definitely be played with larger squad sizes, which is also great.
The difference between APA and ATA is that the second removes the upthrottling (the pods don't automagically move between you and the objective after some time), and downthrottling (pods don't move away from you if there are too many pods nearby). It also handles terror mission differently: Aliens don't shoot civilians as long as one XCOM operative is seen.
I will definitely try a campaign with this one.

 

[Jaedar]

The "all pod active" mod was quite interesting also. Alien Tactical Awareness seems similar, but I haven't tested this one.
APA activates all pods on the turn after you trigger the first, so it makes pod management irrelevant. The problem is that they start beelining to your position which does not make much sense on some missions, and might be a bit hard to handle in missions with lots of Aliens.

I'd like something like that but with intelligent ai. They should move towards the position where xcom was last seen, then spread out to hunt (again reconvening if spotted). Anything else is just boring and sad.

 

[Galdred]

The "all pod active" mod was quite interesting also. Alien Tactical Awareness seems similar, but I haven't tested this one.
APA activates all pods on the turn after you trigger the first, so it makes pod management irrelevant. The problem is that they start beelining to your position which does not make much sense on some missions, and might be a bit hard to handle in missions with lots of Aliens.

I'd like something like that but with intelligent ai. They should move towards the position where xcom was last seen, then spread out to hunt (again reconvening if spotted). Anything else is just boring and sad.

Indeed, everyone rushing to your position would work better for 40K Orks.