Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Sykar]

Heroism is a level 2 spell for Bards, and they get quite a lot of casts per day. And there's not a lot of other great spells at that level.

You do have a Bard in your party, right?

I'd rather use my wizard for Heroism than Bard. Good Hope is much better and makes Heroism redundant.

 

[Yosharian]

Heroism is a level 2 spell for Bards, and they get quite a lot of casts per day. And there's not a lot of other great spells at that level.

You do have a Bard in your party, right?

I'd rather use my wizard for Heroism than Bard. Good Hope is much better and makes Heroism redundant.

Good Hope is level 3, competing with Displacement and Haste. No thanks. And its duration is 10x less.

Same with Wizard, far better choices at that level and Enchantment is a great pick for an Opposed School

 

[Yosharian]

Heroism is a level 2 spell for Bards, and they get quite a lot of casts per day. And there's not a lot of other great spells at that level.

Quite. Sense Vitals, Mirror Image, Blur.

But yeah, Heroism is nice till you get Good Hope. Has much better duration early on too.

Sense Vitals is only good lategame and has too short of a duration. Mirror Image is defensive, shouldn't need it on your Bard. Blur is... alright I guess.

 

[Sykar]

Heroism is a level 2 spell for Bards, and they get quite a lot of casts per day. And there's not a lot of other great spells at that level.

You do have a Bard in your party, right?

I'd rather use my wizard for Heroism than Bard. Good Hope is much better and makes Heroism redundant.

Good Hope is level 3, competing with Displacement and Haste. No thanks.

Same with Wizard, far better choices at that level and Enchantment is a great pick for an Opposed School

Any combination of evocation, divination, enchantment or necromancy does just fine, the only two schools you really do not want to ban are conjuration and transmutation, maybe illusion, though lots of potions out there to become invisible. Displacement is hardly neccessary on a non-tank and the Bard does not get many spells per day anyway.I'd rather have a spell that gives a significant boost to the entire party than Displacement. That early you also have no need for Displacement, Blur is sufficient. Earliest would be act 2 against Hodags.

Heroism is a level 2 spell for Bards, and they get quite a lot of casts per day. And there's not a lot of other great spells at that level.

Quite. Sense Vitals, Mirror Image, Blur.

But yeah, Heroism is nice till you get Good Hope. Has much better duration early on too.

Sense Vitals is only good lategame and has too short of a duration. Mirror Image is defensive, shouldn't need it on your Bard. Blur is... alright I guess.

None of these spells become useless though, while Heroism becomes obsolete with Good Hope available, buffing 6 people with a substantial buff >>> single target buff providing the same. You can get Displacement and Haste alongside Good Hope anyway, just a matter which you want first.

 

[Haplo]

Mirror Image is defensive, shouldn't need it on your Bard.

There are melee bards, you know.

Plus even if your bard is ranged, at higher difficulty levels ranged-heavy enemy groups will shred your lowest HP/AC characters in seconds. On my previous playtrough Linzi was permanently hiding in the corners in the Pitax palace. Otherwise would die in 1 round. Now with Mirror Image she's actually useful.

 

[Haplo]

Good Hope is level 3, competing with Displacement and Haste. No thanks. And its duration is 10x less.

The duration is fine - after a while. Even better extended. And recasting it once or twice to buff your whole party sure beats casting 6x Heroism.

 

[Cael]

DnD is about a bunch of guys sitting around a table stumbling into hilarious situations and running around willy-nilly trying to not get themselves killed. Paiturd turned it into "powergame or die".

 

[Martyr]

is Tristian supposed to stay a party member after you've spared his life, or is that a bug? I thought he said he'd go away for good.

 

[Israfael]

As far as I remember, he's supposed to return back to the capital to await your judgement (and you can exile him / keep him as advisor / forgive him)

 

[Martyr]

As far as I remember, he's supposed to return back to the capital to await your judgement (and you can exile him / keep him as advisor / forgive him)

he went blind after destroying that eye thing and directly afterwards I had the choice to exile/kill etc. him and chose to forgive him, because I thought maybe he'd still be available as a party member.
but from what he said I thought that he was leaving for good, so I wouldn't be surprised if him still being there was a bug. either way, I'm not complaining because I got the result that I wanted.

 

[Zevitu]

Is there any way to improve cantrips and use them as ranged atacks?

 

[ArchAngel]

Is there any way to improve cantrips and use them as ranged atacks?

Use acid splash, it is ranged touch attack and it ignores SR. You can also use it with Sneak Attack and any general bonuses to damage will also work with acid splash.

 

[Shadenuat]

Mirror Image is defensive, shouldn't need it on your Bard.

There are melee bards, you know.

there are only melee bards.
yosharian just doesn't getit, probably thinks bard is some useless dude standing in back plinking crossbow and giving song bonus; not a brutal 1.5 bab gish multiclass capable (although even that is not necessary) machine throwing buffs on everyone and packing best defensive spells in the game to the boot + all the feats from combat tricks and so on so on

I also used to stick to standard archetypes (and honestly prefer to, since unlimited multiclassing just leads to retarded looking character builds) but in the end it's all just adding numbers together and bard has some great numberz.

Bard is really the only class I personally consider mandatory for a perfect balanced highest difficulty party.

 

[Zevitu]

Mirror Image is defensive, shouldn't need it on your Bard.

There are melee bards, you know.

there are only melee bards.
yosharian just doesn't getit, probably thinks bard is some useless dude standing in back plinking crossbow and giving song bonus; not a brutal 1.5 bab gish multiclass capable (although even that is not necessary) machine throwing buffs on everyone and packing best defensive spells in the game to the boot + all the feats from combat tricks and so on so on

I also used to stick to standard archetypes (and honestly prefer to, since unlimited multiclassing just leads to retarded looking character builds) but in the end it's all just adding numbers together and bard has some great numberz.

Bard is really the only class I personally consider mandatory for a perfect balanced highest difficulty party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiHXxrCB5yk

 

[Desiderius]

Mirror Image is defensive, shouldn't need it on your Bard.

There are melee bards, you know.

there are only melee bards.
yosharian just doesn't getit, probably thinks bard is some useless dude standing in back plinking crossbow and giving song bonus; not a brutal 1.5 bab gish multiclass capable (although even that is not necessary) machine throwing buffs on everyone and packing best defensive spells in the game to the boot + all the feats from combat tricks and so on so on

I also used to stick to standard archetypes (and honestly prefer to, since unlimited multiclassing just leads to retarded looking character builds) but in the end it's all just adding numbers together and bard has some great numberz.

Bard is really the only class I personally consider mandatory for a perfect balanced highest difficulty party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiHXxrCB5yk

I usually go straight bard with Linzi and she winds up dominating with AoE CC songs, group buffs, two-weapon crit triggering, and decent offensive spells as long as you target the weak save. Cacophonous Call is so underrated, eats Owlbears alive.

This playthrough Val is handling pure bard duties (TSS1,SF1,Bx) while Linzi is working toward a Bard4, Barb2, Swordlord5, Sword Saint x monstrosity.

 

[Shadenuat]

This playthrough Val is handling pure bard duties (TSS1,SF1,Bx) while Linzi is working toward a Bard4, Barb2, Swordlord5, Sword Saint x monstrosity.

that's what I am getting at; the whole system is like legos, you can build anything you want.
i... am not even sure Pathfinder is a class system at this point.

 

[Efe]

its fine as long as it lets you have fun isnt it?
especially if alternative is poe

 

[Sergiu64]

My Val is a Str Magus with that strength bonus bloodline. Linzi is an Arcane sorcerer. Amiri is a Freebooter ranger that will probably go into 2 handed fighter archtype soon. The undead elf girl was getting converted to ranged fighter, but I just don't have enough party slots considering I also want an Erastil priest and a Sensei merc.

Run with Val, the slave duo, and those two mercs.

 

[razvedchiki]

Can A 2hander be also able to tank?in hard?

 

[Riel]

Can A 2hander be also able to tank?in hard?

In this game you tank with AC and giving up on shield AC bonus is crippling in that regard, you can cast Shield spell to fill the gap, either yourself (it's a personal spell) or an alchemist with infusion, that said 4 AC is good but by no means as good as what you get with a real shield in late game so it's always going to suboptimal. Shield warriors are tanks and two handers DPSs after all.

 

[Sergiu64]

Can A 2hander be also able to tank?in hard?

Kinda depends on what buffs you have available for the guy and what sort of build atrocity you've got for him. Remember that some classes give AC from Int, some from Wis. Some get feat chains which increase AC further. Things like that offset the lack of the shield (and buffs make even bigger difference). But generally speaking the guy with the 2 hander will be Enlarged and the idea is to have him rush into the combat after your tanks and smack the enemies your tanks have already engaged.

There's some sort of thing in the end game where all the attacks getting thrown at your guys become touch attacks too, so armor, shield and natural AC becomes irrelevant (with the exception of high level tower shield specialists and their shield AC).

 

[Luckmann]

Sounds like Frankenstein's monster.

That's flesh golem for you, still a golem but made from fragile (us) material.

Wow, I dunno, americans are fat, but usually it's the chinese that are associated with shoddy workmanship.

 

[deuxhero]

Can A 2hander be also able to tank?in hard?

You "tank" by killing the enemy quicker and disabling the enemy with spells. Two hander has significantly higher damage than sword and shield, and charisma based ones can use Curnogen Smash to lower enemy saves.

 

[Lambach]

Can A 2hander be also able to tank?in hard?

Proper tanks, unless you rest every 2 encounters to re-buff, are generally either Tower Shield wielders or builds without armor but ridiculously high Dex and long-lasting buffs (so Alchemists, ITT). Either way, you're gonna need a couple of Feats for it, Feats that would be better spent on causing pain, which is what you'd want for a 2H Fighter.

 

[Yosharian]

Mirror Image is defensive, shouldn't need it on your Bard.

There are melee bards, you know.

there are only melee bards.
yosharian just doesn't getit, probably thinks bard is some useless dude standing in back plinking crossbow and giving song bonus; not a brutal 1.5 bab gish multiclass capable (although even that is not necessary) machine throwing buffs on everyone and packing best defensive spells in the game to the boot + all the feats from combat tricks and so on so on

I also used to stick to standard archetypes (and honestly prefer to, since unlimited multiclassing just leads to retarded looking character builds) but in the end it's all just adding numbers together and bard has some great numberz.

Bard is really the only class I personally consider mandatory for a perfect balanced highest difficulty party.

Melee bard? Why? In any case even if he's melee, he isn't going to be tanking, not unless he's a multiclass bard which means who cares about what support spells he's using, he isn't a supporter anymore. Of course Mirror Image is best in this case.

There are far, far better classes for gish-types than Bard.

Heroism has absurd duration which makes it one of the best buff spells in the game, especially early on. Of course later on Good Hope starts to outshine it. Also, you don't necessarily need to put Heroism on everyone. Just your best physical damage dealers/tanks.